SCULPTEO

[John Bigboote]

When you're making a hollowed-out model, how do you deal with the powder that's stuck in the empty space?

That is another issue... ultimately, if you are hollowing out- you should leave a way for the powder to get out.

 

I should add that (altho I never used it) support is available at all times thru a chat box at Sculpteo.com this would be something that someone familiar with the particular machine and process could answer forthwith...

[Fuchur]

have a look at netfab... that software should help alot... it is freeware (get netfabb studio basic) and i use it constantly before printing something...

[fae_alba]

 

I tried sending up a model of Papa Bear to sulpteo this weekend (on a pedestal, with a fish at his feet and holding his fishing pole). The repair tool choked on it, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. Ah well.

Did you give it time? 20 minutes in some cases. Also, as always- make sure you have your normals facing right ways or that will make for some confusements to the bot... How many subdivisions did you set in the obj export dialogue... I've been using 16 I think. As I said p at the top... you go back and forth many many times between A:M and Sculpteo, so you need to change something up and try again.

 

 

I did 16 subdivisions, checked normals. This is what I was going for....

 

and this is what sculpteo sees ...

[robcat2075]

 

and this is what sculpteo sees ...

 

 

My suggestion is to start with one shape that works and add others in until you find one that causes a problem. Then you know where to begin problem solving.

 

Is that clothing really single thickness?

[Rodney]

It looks like the base and the fishing pole are intersecting in such a way as to confuse the objects.

At a guess I'd say there is something about the fishing pole (perhaps hooks/internal patches) that is causing problems.

[John Bigboote]

Hey Paul- yeah--- something amiss with the pole... BUT, the screen you showed is just the REPAIR IN-PROGRESS screen... what happens when the repair process is finished? It is listing(in the color codes) all of the stuff that it is in the progress of dealing with, so you have to give it the time to do it's thing... if that blue bar above the 'repair in progress' is going back-n-forth... it is working.

[fae_alba]

Hey Paul- yeah--- something amiss with the pole... BUT, the screen you showed is just the REPAIR IN-PROGRESS screen... what happens when the repair process is finished? It is listing(in the color codes) all of the stuff that it is in the progress of dealing with, so you have to give it the time to do it's thing... if that blue bar above the 'repair in progress' is going back-n-forth... it is working.

 

John,

 

I leave it alone. It comes back repair failed. One thing that I find interesting is if I send Papa Bear up by himself, it works (I have to change the repair method to get it to do so) and the colors come in fine. Sending up the whole model and the fur color comes across as blue. I'll try sending up the base separately. To me it looks like the base is the cause, but its the simplest part of the whole shebang!

 

 

and this is what sculpteo sees ...

 

 

My suggestion is to start with one shape that works and add others in until you find one that causes a problem. Then you know where to begin problem solving.

 

Is that clothing really single thickness?

 

 

Robert, the shirt is one thickness. The collar does fold over, but the mesh itself is not doubled up.

[John Bigboote]

Do you triangulate the obj? I leave that option off. Keep up the trial and error, I guess...

[robcat2075]

 

 

Robert, the shirt is one thickness. The collar does fold over, but the mesh itself is not doubled up.

 

 

That would have to fail, wouldn't it? I don't think there's a way to print something that is infinitely thin.

[John Bigboote]

 

 

 

Robert, the shirt is one thickness. The collar does fold over, but the mesh itself is not doubled up.

 

 

That would have to fail, wouldn't it? I don't think there's a way to print something that is infinitely thin.

 

I'd test it... delete the folded over splinage and save as- OR redo it without the foldover... that is a trick that works in A:M-land, but you have to think actual mass now.

[pixelplucker]

Just ordered my Form1+

Someone mentioned the $149 per liter is expensive but what I found out is when you order a liter of resin you should also order an additional resin tank at $59 because the tanks break down and wear causing build errors. In any case if I was to send out for a model my costs ranged from $35-$80 average each model with a minimum of 3 day turnaround. Same models on the Form1+ are a fraction of that $2-$15 ea. in material.

 

For model checking, Hexagon does handle fairly large high poly models and the tools are more intuitive than most other poly modelers. It has a close tool, thickness tool and normals correction. I think it is still free. Nice overall modeler with a very short learning curve that compliments the work flow. I have ported 3d coat generated obj files into Hexagon that had a few mill polygons and was able to navigate around fairly easily. Huge files I suggest dropping to wireframe mode in the display. Makes zipping around easier.

[fae_alba]

 

I'd test it... delete the folded over splinage and save as- OR redo it without the foldover... that is a trick that works in A:M-land, but you have to think actual mass now.

 

 

I like AM better!

[John Bigboote]

GO KEN! I just looked at their site... didn't see the price but- CONGRATULATIONS! What kind of parts are you making?

[fae_alba]

 

GO KEN! I just looked at their site... didn't see the price but- CONGRATULATIONS! What kind of parts are you making?

 

I looked too...roughly $3300 bucks. I need a render server before a 3D printer!

[robcat2075]

Just ordered my Form1+

 

I salute your early-adopter-ivity!

 

I shall be eager to hear of your experiences with it.

[pixelplucker]

Thanks, will be making the usual stuff, hat/lapel pins, belt buckles, challenge coins, emblems along with prototyping custom novelty products, gadgets and small sculptures.

 

Been keeping an eye on this machine for a white because of the quality and price of it. Just held off because they had that tif going with 3d systems that seems to be resolved. Quality of the output is equal or better than the $250,000 polyjet machine I had been sending my files to.

[Fuchur]

I'll say it again: Netfab! that is made for correcting stl files for 3d printing works great, tell you about problems has automatic correction possibilties and is free.

 

it is much better to get rid of the problems with the stl files in the software you did the model in since otherwise after slightly redesigning something you will need to redo the corrections too.

 

see you

*fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

Definitely best approach is to make sure the file is good from the original program, much much easier to fix there than in another program grudging through piles of polys.

 

When I export files out I don't use n-sided or quads but rather just straight triangles. N-sided faces are always problematic and often booleans will have a long triangle across the openings.

 

I'll have to check out Netfab, thanks.

[John Bigboote]

I saw an ad for $25 off a similar service called Shapeways (new to me) I uploaded the same model and let them have a bid at it. $8,755.58 whoaa! AND- you can't adjust the scale... it came in at 22" tall so OF COURSE it's gonna cost a lot... but I don't see a way to scale it down... whereas Sculpteo had it right there, adjust the scale- they adjust the price...

[robcat2075]

That Shapeways preview looks like it has worse faceting than the Sculpteo result.

[pixelplucker]

I used to use Shapeways, I believe they job out the prints to different production studios and they then drop ship to you via Shapeways packaging. Downside to them is the quality of prints vary and you have to make sure your model is to scale and you pick the right scale when placing an order. Model really needs to be spot on. I was told that to control the orientation of the model in the case of a coin you would have to add a long post off to the side and if I remember right it had to be 30mm tall so they orient it flat. Otherwise they would print it any old way.

 

Quality of the print really is dependent on the process and z resolution. XY resolution is usually finer and less relevant. Z is the layer thickness.

 

Faceting in the preview is just the preview. the faces usually mush down and don't look as sharp on the final product. I'm sure the preview on Shapeways is the same in Meshlabs and other viewers.

 

A really big key to savings is to hollow out the model no matter how painful that sounds. I had a model I wanted to be sintered in bronze. Was a paperweight of a guy getting squished in a sidewalk by a 50 ton weight. Was way too pricey for me to do.

 

If I remember i'll post the stl here when I hop on my work computer.

[pixelplucker]

 

 

I tried sending up a model of Papa Bear to sulpteo this weekend (on a pedestal, with a fish at his feet and holding his fishing pole). The repair tool choked on it, and no matter what I did it wouldn't work. Ah well.

Did you give it time? 20 minutes in some cases. Also, as always- make sure you have your normals facing right ways or that will make for some confusements to the bot... How many subdivisions did you set in the obj export dialogue... I've been using 16 I think. As I said p at the top... you go back and forth many many times between A:M and Sculpteo, so you need to change something up and try again.

 

 

I did 16 subdivisions, checked normals. This is what I was going for....scene_test0.png

 

and this is what sculpteo sees ...oops.jpg

 

Might be an open shape. All geometry must be closed entities. 3rd party program that allows capping of holes should repair that.

[Fuchur]

or you just close it in am. does not matter much...

[Fuchur]

can you adjust the infill levels on those models somewhere? in makerware and replicatorg u just say prnt with 10% infill and the weight decreases significantly... actually many models can be printed without infills =0%...

printing it solid would consume very much filament and take much longer without an advantages

[pixelplucker]

Here is the paper weight model I made a while back, it needs to be scaled since it's straight out of 3d coat.

50 ton paperweight.zip

[pixelplucker]

I don't think you can adjust an infill on that type of process. Think you can only do that with FDM that use tool paths to build the object rather than just slices.

 

That is a big advantage with fdm for making usable parts and save weight and material.

[John Bigboote]

Dig the paperweight, Ken! Does not look like that model would be too hard to hollow... at least the base and the weight since they are quite geometric and not too organic shapes, leave the guy and the concrete and the ring at the top to be solid, no?

 

Aside: Do younger people even know what a paperweight IS nowadays? Was talking to a colleague who predicts this next generation will not know what an ashtray is... just like my generation grew-up never experiencing the 'cuspidor'...

 

CANCER killed the tobacco products, but AC killed the paperweight!

[robcat2075]

...just like my generation grew-up never experiencing the 'cuspidor'...

 

Yuk...

 

 

A Chicago courtroom scene, mid 1910s. A spittoon is seen on the floor at bottom right.

[John Bigboote]

Chuck Jones (Bugs Bunny creator, animator) writes in his bio 'Chuck Amuck' that at his first job as cel-washer he was in charge of emptying the cuspidors- the older fellows were calling him 'Admiral'... and when he found out why it was because 'he manned the vessels..."!

[pixelplucker]

most of it was hollowed out except the fine details. I thought of actually casting it in bronze down the road so wall thickness was a consideration.

 

If you print it in plastic you can easily update it to hold your tablet down...

[John Bigboote]

Hey Ken- Have you seen where you can register an account with 3DHubs.com and people will search you out by zipcode(locally) to have you print for them?

[pixelplucker]

Thats a pretty cool site, looks like most are using the Maker Bots or similar fdm, only saw one in Somerville that has a Form1. Not sure if I really want to get into the output service work, bought the machine primarily for my own purposes but will output for a select few others like the peeps here. I book marked that site just in case I change my mind.

 

One of my suppliers does output on 3d systems machines that they sell. I believe they sell and output on the same machine that Sculpteo has as well as the high end polyjet series. http://www.alphaimaging.com

 

I know the people there and dealt with them for nearly 20 years. Curious what they would charge on the print you had done. They were pretty competitive on pricing in this area. Talk to Rudy Grua on the service email: rgrua@alphaimaging.com

 

The prints I had sent to them came back flawless.

 

Thanks

[John Bigboote]

One thing I am learning thru dealing with sites like Shapeways and 3DHubs is that you have to have the SCALE of your model SPOT-ON or you get rejected as you exceed the limitations of the printer... sounds easy enough- but with the 3D programs having their scale-mechanisms... the exporters having their scale converters... and the importers throwing complexity at it as well... it gets confusing! At least to me... I know other people probably breeze thru a simple thing like 'scale'... I'm the prop-builder from 'Spinal-Tap'... This brings-up a great feature at Sculpteo- which SIMPLY(and I mean SIMPLE!) ask's you what dimensions you would like your model printed at... I simply used the Y dimension(height) and estimated I wanted slightly less that 4"(X and Z translated auto)... and the price updated as well.

 

I think these other services need to simplify scaleability.

[Fuchur]

It really depends what you want to do... if you need specific sizes and precise measurements of single parts of your model it is better to use the scaling of the model file than anything else. (just to mention it: In my experience with Netfab and my Makerbot Replicator 2, A:M/the exporter scales things "wrong" by the factor of 10. If you are working in cm, just assume the unit shown is millimeters and it should work out quite well... however there are more things to be aware of like shrinking rate when using FDM-machines, etc. I am not sure if powderbased prints are affected by that. I assume not or not that much.)

 

I have never used print-shops like shapeways (much more known here than Sculpteo... but the tests you did there with sculpteo look cool too)...

The next thing for me is to test out my new printer I just bought form ebay. It is a Makerbot 2x, which should give me better possibilities with overhangs, since it has two print heads...

Still it is of course not printing in color like your first model shown here... that is something only very expensive printers can do...

[pixelplucker]

Scaling can be tough also some programs when converting will flip an axis on you making things a little more interesting. I think the toughest to get an accurate size from is 3dCoat. I never could grasp their units. You have a trailing decimal of voxels per unit just to make something that is about that big.

 

Many of the output houses use Magics (http://software.materialise.com/magics). There shouldn't be an issue if you can specify just one dimension when ordering and specify the unit of measure but I think they just let the underpaid drones roam around and output rather than actually force them to think.

 

If you have z shrinkage you should be able to compensate for it. Most have that issue but I think the amount varies between processes. I believe the only one that wouldn't have that is the jewelry wax printers like SolidScape because they mill each layer after printing to smooth it out and get the precise layer height.

 

When my toy comes in I'll run some tests and see if I can figure the amount it shrinks or if it is automatically adjusted in the software. I'm sure that can be an easy work around.

 

Fuchur, with that dual head Makerbot, what kind of disovable support can you put through the nozzles? Are they plastic based or can you print a polymerized wax of some sorts? Wax would be nice because you could dunk your part in hot water to dissolve it out. One of the tricks to stress re-leaving plastic part is to dunk them in hot water and let them cool down. This relaxes the molecules making the part more durable. Should work with ABS, something to look into.

[Fuchur]

i am not sure if wax is possible but pva is possible. that is a water resolvable plastic. wax is not very likely since you need a heated builtplate for pva and wax would very likely melt at that. i will try to updated it so i can print pla too which would eliminate the need for the heated plate... i will have to test that.

[pixelplucker]

I didn't know pva is water soluble, thats pretty cool. You should be able to print some really nice objects without the worry of overhangs.