Any network admins out there?

[Roger]

I've been thinking of applying for a network admin position at my current place of employment. They list a CS (computer science) degree as one of the requirements. Casually thumbing through a CS course catalog from the local extension campus, it seems like overkill for network admin stuff, more like it is geared toward software engineering/software development.

 

Anybody out there doing this for a living now, and have any recommendations? I think this path might fit my talents better, but not keen on going back to school or piling up a ton of debt right now. In addition to opening up more options at my current place of employment, it might ultimately be a useful skill to have if I was looking to become a TD at an animation studio.

 

Any recommendations for courses/independent study type stuff? Any sense in pursuing certifications?

 

Thanks in advance.

[robcat2075]

I wasn't a network admin but I worked for a company that trained them.

 

Some of the stuff they have to manage is surprisingly primitive. Long series of command line arguments with not much GUI at all. Lots of scripting to configure stuff.

 

And lots of acronyms. I remember a video we made trying to explain the difference between TGAR (Trunk Group Access Restriction) and TARG (Trunk Access Restriction Group).

 

Maybe it's all changed since the 2000's

[Fuchur]

I wasn't a network admin but I worked for a company that trained them.

 

Some of the stuff they have to manage is surprisingly primitive. Long series of command line arguments with not much GUI at all. Lots of scripting to configure stuff.

 

And lots of acronyms. I remember a video we made trying to explain the difference between TGAR (Trunk Group Access Restriction) and TARG (Trunk Access Restriction Group).

 

Maybe it's all changed since the 2000's

 

I am working as an admin for a small company (which means it is not my main job there but I do it in combination with other stuff).

Do you need to administrate a linux or a windows network? Or even Unix? Windows is quite easy and most of the time you are searching on the web for solving stuff.

This seems to be normal... a little scripting is often required, BUT most ocf that stuff is just copy and paste from microsofts support-pages.

 

For more complex stuff you need to know a little more, but all in all the whole work has been done before and it is just taking much time to search for the informationso...

i have worked with companies which are just administrating stuff and they are not doing much different there... most don't know the answer from the start but know where they can ask or search for it... that is the whole secret behind it...

ANYWAY, be aware that you may have very long and unusual working times and that you need to be able to work under high pressure... in many cases a large part of the company

will not be able to work till you have done your work and solve the problems other people may or may not have created. So it can cost really a lot of money if you are not fast enough.

 

And I am only working for a small company... what size is the one you are working for?

 

See you

*FUchur*

[robcat2075]

And I am only working for a small company... what size is the one you are working for?

 

I was working for the now-defunct Nortel Networks. They made telecom and internet switches scaled from medium-sized business to small country-sized needs. It's possible their equipment was excessively primitive in its operation.

 

My

animation. That was printed in the corner of a catalog as a flip book.

[Roger]

I wasn't a network admin but I worked for a company that trained them.

 

Some of the stuff they have to manage is surprisingly primitive. Long series of command line arguments with not much GUI at all. Lots of scripting to configure stuff.

 

And lots of acronyms. I remember a video we made trying to explain the difference between TGAR (Trunk Group Access Restriction) and TARG (Trunk Access Restriction Group).

 

Maybe it's all changed since the 2000's

 

I am working as an admin for a small company (which means it is not my main job there but I do it in combination with other stuff).

Do you need to administrate a linux or a windows network? Or even Unix? Windows is quite easy and most of the time you are searching on the web for solving stuff.

This seems to be normal... a little scripting is often required, BUT most ocf that stuff is just copy and paste from microsofts support-pages.

 

For more complex stuff you need to know a little more, but all in all the whole work has been done before and it is just taking much time to search for the informationso...

i have worked with companies which are just administrating stuff and they are not doing much different there... most don't know the answer from the start but know where they can ask or search for it... that is the whole secret behind it...

ANYWAY, be aware that you may have very long and unusual working times and that you need to be able to work under high pressure... in many cases a large part of the company

will not be able to work till you have done your work and solve the problems other people may or may not have created. So it can cost really a lot of money if you are not fast enough.

 

And I am only working for a small company... what size is the one you are working for?

 

See you

*FUchur*

 

I work for a pretty large company - low thousands as far as the number of employees. Don't want to name the industry but downtime is very expensive and personalities are very aggressive. On the plus side I wouldn't be the only admin, I'd be one of 5 or more. And the place is big enough that we have our own telecom admins, Exchange admins, etc. Not just one guy doing everything.

 

I'm trying to figure out what my options are for my career, I seem to be stuck in the doldrums currently. I can't keep doing the same role I'm doing now for another 5 years, at that point I won't be able to do anything else. Or rather, it will be much harder to transition to another role or explain why I was in the role I was in for such a long time. I often feel like I am viewed by both the clients I support and the rest of the IT staff that I am just a script monkey. Also, being in front-line support, I end up being the whipping boy for whatever frustrations people are having that day. Makes for a great deal of stress.

 

And when I say script monkey, I mean a phone support person that no matter what your problem is has to take you through the same tiresome script even though you have aleady done the initial troubleshooting. Not even the guys beneath me do that, we don't have scripts

at all in fact and have a great deal of leeway in how we are able to approach a problem. But in reality, script monkey is the category we get lumped into.

 

Anyway, I guess I just needed to vent and am trying to brainstorm some options here.

[robcat2075]

Our economy doesn't seem to have the stability people need to make career plans. By the time you finish training for something , someone has figured out a way to outsource it. I'm lousy on career advice.

 

 

A long time ago i worked in a phone center taking repair parts orders for Sears. There were always two big bumps in the conversation: asking for their model number (they couldn't find it) and telling them that shipping and handling for the lock washer they ordered was going to be $19.95.

 

I did not know that I was a script monkey.

 

An even more script monkey job I had was in the 80's doing market research surveys. "New Coke" hit back then and we were spending 30-40 minutes with each person asking them questions like

 

"On a 1-10 scale, do you feel New Coke is... reliable?"

 

I was "good" at that job because people would believe me when I told them "There's just a few questions left, we're almost done..."

 

For most surveys the "respondents" had to satisfy certain demographics before you could do the survey on them.

 

One night about 40 of us were all calling trying to complete a survey that needed just two more respondents, but they had to be female, over 40, living in Utah and admitted to drinking at least four beers a day.

[Roger]

Our economy doesn't seem to have the stability people need to make career plans. By the time you finish training for something , someone has figured out a way to outsource it. I'm lousy on career advice.

 

A long time ago i worked in a phone center taking repair parts orders for Sears. There were always two big bumps in the conversation: asking for their model number (they couldn't find it) and telling them that shipping and handling for the lock washer they ordered was going to be $19.95.

 

I did not know that I was a script monkey.

 

An even more script monkey job I had was in the 80's doing market research surveys. "New Coke" hit back then and we were spending 30-40 minutes with each person asking them questions like

 

"On a 1-10 scale, do you feel New Coke is... reliable?"

 

I was "good" at that job because people would believe me when I told them "There's just a few questions left, we're almost done..."

 

For most surveys the "respondents" had satisfy certain demographics before you could do the survey on them.

 

One night about 40 of us were all calling trying to complete a survey that needed just two more respondents, but they had to be female, over 40, living in Utah and admitted to drinking at least four beers a day.

 

 

That does seem to be the rub, doesn't it? It is a shame I didn't have $10000 and the foresight to invest it in Apple back in, oh, 1997.

Then I could just go be a gentleman farmer in Costa Rica or run a scuba diving shop. Right now the best case looks like a re-run of the 1970s with stagflation. I don't want to think about the worst case.

 

In any case, I meant no offense to any current or former customer service folk out there. Every customer service type job has a general pattern of interaction, info you have to get, etc. I can't imagine doing surveys on Coke, that must have been interesting. Especially with the requirements as granular as that. I can just imagine how that goes "ok, so you're female, and over 40, right? And you have at least 4 beers a day...are those before noon or after noon?" YIKES.

 

What I was thinking of was when you call, say, Dell for tech support and get "Bill" (you surely have talked to Bill at some point).

You say "hey Bill, my PC started with this error message on the screen "error: fan failure - system halt" and my computer won't boot."

Instead of saying "here is your RMA number, we'll get that fixed for you right away", Bill then makes you check the machine is plugged in, attempt to boot it, read you the error 2 or 3 times, hop on one foot, etc. And during the entire conversation, "Bill" sounds like he is reading out of a binder. You may or may not get an RMA number from Bill, if you don't you have to repeat the process all over again with a different "Bill", because the original has shuffled you back to the beginning of the phone queue.

 

But that would be a textbook example of (paticularly poor) low-level tech support. In fairness to the "Bills" out there, they have their calls monitored, can and will be reprimanded if they deviate from the script, and a lot of times they can't spend more than 5 to 10 minutes on a call (due to quotas from management). These sorts of restrictions are one thing when you are just logging complaints, an entirely different thing if you are attempting to fix someone's problem (which could take ten minutes or an hour). This is the main reason you get such crappy tech support from large companies.

 

So, when I said "script monkey" I was thinking of that type of experience, not customer service people in general.

 

*my apologies to any actual Bills, I just needed a random name*

[robcat2075]

No offense taken.

 

I recall about four years after I did the market research survey job I was needing a job again real bad and I saw an ad in the paper for telephone market research interviewers with a different company.

 

I applied and they said they'd hire me and sat me down in a cube to start reading the company manual while they got the hiring paperwork. I started looking through it and all the bad memories of the previous job started coming back and I was even feeling sick about it.

 

I poked my head up and saw that no one was actually watching me so I just snuck out and never went back.

[robcat2075]

The always-reliable Wikipedia has this article on Network Administrators

[fae_alba]

so I'm going to address the initial question of what a BS in IT would prep you for...quite simply it only gets you past the first HR persons desk. What is taught in college very rarely satisfies the IT needs of most businesses. Sure, you get a smattering of the new fad software tools (python, html5 etc.), a little of analysis work, all of which you will use, but what you won't get is a good solid business knowledge, that most companies hunger for in their IT personnel. That being said, if you want a career in IT, earning the $80k+ salaries we all need to survive, then you need at least a BS in IT.

 

I've been a software engineer for 28+ years, doing everything from computer room operations in the 80s (oh the memories!) to owning my own software firm/ISP. I currently work for a state government consulting company here in Albany. For us, getting qualified developers is actually next to impossible. Java developers, database admins, etc. are surprisingly hard to come by. Check out this job list to give you an idea of what we look for. Now, if you're looking for a job where you don't feel like a "script monkey" all day, then IT, in all its aspects, can feel like that at one time or another.

[robcat2075]

...but what you won't get is a good solid business knowledge, that most companies hunger for in their IT personnel..

 

What do you mean by "business knowledge" in that field?

[Roger]

so I'm going to address the initial question of what a BS in IT would prep you for...quite simply it only gets you past the first HR persons desk. What is taught in college very rarely satisfies the IT needs of most businesses. Sure, you get a smattering of the new fad software tools (python, html5 etc.), a little of analysis work, all of which you will use, but what you won't get is a good solid business knowledge, that most companies hunger for in their IT personnel. That being said, if you want a career in IT, earning the $80k+ salaries we all need to survive, then you need at least a BS in IT.

 

I've been a software engineer for 28+ years, doing everything from computer room operations in the 80s (oh the memories!) to owning my own software firm/ISP. I currently work for a state government consulting company here in Albany. For us, getting qualified developers is actually next to impossible. Java developers, database admins, etc. are surprisingly hard to come by. Check out this job list to give you an idea of what we look for. Now, if you're looking for a job where you don't feel like a "script monkey" all day, then IT, in all its aspects, can feel like that at one time or another.

 

I realize that even the most high level job is not going to be all interesting, all the time. There is always grunt work that needs to be done.

I just am not sure that my talents are being utlized to their utmost right now. I probably could have been a supervisor or team lead of my helpdesk team by now, but I didn't apply for the position because I've never been comfortable with managment roles. Although, in hindsight I probably should have because it might have opend up other avenues by now.

 

I have sort of an odd background, my degree is a BFA but I probably have enough engineering coursework to be most of the way to an Associates. I don't really want to do another 4 year degree, I was thinking of doing a Masters or backfilling my knowledge gaps with certifications.

 

While I might not need $80k to survive, I would certainly need that much to justify spending $10-$25k to go back to school. I don't think I could swing the loan payments, otherwise.

[fae_alba]

...but what you won't get is a good solid business knowledge, that most companies hunger for in their IT personnel..

 

What do you mean by "business knowledge" in that field?

 

For the most part a foundation of business management, financial processes, current laws (HIPAA/FERPA, Sarbanes-Oxley). A developer who understands that everything they do impacts the business and should be done with the employers bottom line in mind. Not looking for an MBA, but a basic understanding.

[fae_alba]

I realize that even the most high level job is not going to be all interesting, all the time. There is always grunt work that needs to be done.

I just am not sure that my talents are being utlized to their utmost right now. I probably could have been a supervisor or team lead of my helpdesk team by now, but I didn't apply for the position because I've never been comfortable with managment roles. Although, in hindsight I probably should have because it might have opend up other avenues by now.

 

talk to your current employer. Let them know you are interested in moving up. Communication!

 

I have sort of an odd background, my degree is a BFA but I probably have enough engineering coursework to be most of the way to an Associates. I don't really want to do another 4 year degree, I was thinking of doing a Masters or backfilling my knowledge gaps with certifications.

 

Not a bad plan..but understand that certifications won't replace a BS degree in the eyes of most HR departments. An MBA is not a bad way to go, but pricey.

 

 

A BFA huh? My daughter earned hers several years ago..she's running a day care program for the YMCA now...so much for the $80k+ I spent on that degree!

[robcat2075]

How did college get so damn expensive? The college I went to has almost Harvard tuition now.

[Roger]

How did college get so damn expensive? The college I went to has almost Harvard tuition now.

 

There are a couple reasons. College is seen as a ticket into a middle class life, more or less, so people will stretch their means to be able to afford it. It has become the de-facto standard that all HR departments go by. You could be the best engineer, programmer, architect, artist (well, a little less so in the art world) but if you don't have the sheepskin, a lot of places simply will not hire you.

 

So you have a huge demand for degrees, because without one, your employment options are pretty much limited to fast food, retail, or low or unskilled labor. These types of jobs barely support a single person, let alone a family.

 

The easy availability of federal loans also probably has something to do with the price going up. You have a large supply of money available for something that there is a very high demand for. If the money wasn't there and people suddenly couldn't afford to go, colleges would be dropping their prices.

 

We are probably going to see the student loan bubble pop at some point. I think there is something like $1 trillion in student loans floating around out there? You've got a ton of people out there that are barely getting by with $300, $400, $500 a month or more loan payments.

 

I have mixed feelings about my own education. I am glad I went and after a rocky start, started earning the kind of money that made it worth it (from a financial viewpoint). I think I would have benefitted from doing a 2-4 year military service or something ( do they even have 2 year tours of duty?) or maybe doing the first 2 years at a community college where it would have been an order of magnitude cheaper.

I had a lot of difficulties at that time in my life, though, that prevented me from getting as much out of it as I could have.

 

I think highschools don't seriously discuss options to the standard 4 year college program. No one ever told me about trade schools or that I could be earning college credit while in highschool by taking the right classes. I really would like to horsewhip my guidance counselor.

[Roger]

I realize that even the most high level job is not going to be all interesting, all the time. There is always grunt work that needs to be done.

I just am not sure that my talents are being utlized to their utmost right now. I probably could have been a supervisor or team lead of my helpdesk team by now, but I didn't apply for the position because I've never been comfortable with managment roles. Although, in hindsight I probably should have because it might have opend up other avenues by now.

 

talk to your current employer. Let them know you are interested in moving up. Communication!

 

I have sort of an odd background, my degree is a BFA but I probably have enough engineering coursework to be most of the way to an Associates. I don't really want to do another 4 year degree, I was thinking of doing a Masters or backfilling my knowledge gaps with certifications.

 

Not a bad plan..but understand that certifications won't replace a BS degree in the eyes of most HR departments. An MBA is not a bad way to go, but pricey.

 

 

A BFA huh? My daughter earned hers several years ago..she's running a day care program for the YMCA now...so much for the $80k+ I spent on that degree!

 

I've already let them know I would like to make a move to another team. Things are kind of rocky right now. We have had a mass exodus from our IT department, so I honestly don't know what is going to happen.

 

I am extraordinarily fortunate that I have my degree, I don't know that I would have gotten by the HR filter without it.

I think my job experience was what got me hired, the degree may have fulfilled their hiring requirements. I honestly don't know.

I think people with BA/BFA degrees can do well in a lot of positions. You sorta have to sneak in the back door, though

 

What is your daughter's degree in? Maybe there is something she could pursue that would leverage her childcare experience? Teaching maybe? (although that is not easy, but if she likes kids, it might be an option).

[robcat2075]

I have a hard time pointing to anything useful i got from college except a degree which most jobs required me to have.

[fae_alba]

I've already let them know I would like to make a move to another team. Things are kind of rocky right now. We have had a mass exodus from our IT department, so I honestly don't know what is going to happen.

 

I am extraordinarily fortunate that I have my degree, I don't know that I would have gotten by the HR filter without it.

I think my job experience was what got me hired, the degree may have fulfilled their hiring requirements. I honestly don't know.

I think people with BA/BFA degrees can do well in a lot of positions. You sorta have to sneak in the back door, though

 

What is your daughter's degree in? Maybe there is something she could pursue that would leverage her childcare experience? Teaching maybe? (although that is not easy, but if she likes kids, it might be an option).

 

She has a fine arts degree from Green Mountain College. Started in education, but that changed. She's now thinking about going back and getting the certification she needs to run a pre-school class..

 

A mass exodus from the IT department usually speaks to a general dissatisfaction with the employer. Perhaps direction of career paths weren't that promising, or pay scales are so grossly out of wack with the industry.

[Dpendleton77]

I've been thinking of applying for a network admin position at my current place of employment. They list a CS (computer science) degree as one of the requirements. Casually thumbing through a CS course catalog from the local extension campus, it seems like overkill for network admin stuff, more like it is geared toward software engineering/software development.

 

Anybody out there doing this for a living now, and have any recommendations? I think this path might fit my talents better, but not keen on going back to school or piling up a ton of debt right now. In addition to opening up more options at my current place of employment, it might ultimately be a useful skill to have if I was looking to become a TD at an animation studio.

 

Any recommendations for courses/independent study type stuff? Any sense in pursuing certifications?

 

Thanks in advance.

All you need is a cert I have one in that. Network+ had it since 2001 I believe.

[Roger]

I've been thinking of applying for a network admin position at my current place of employment. They list a CS (computer science) degree as one of the requirements. Casually thumbing through a CS course catalog from the local extension campus, it seems like overkill for network admin stuff, more like it is geared toward software engineering/software development.

 

Anybody out there doing this for a living now, and have any recommendations? I think this path might fit my talents better, but not keen on going back to school or piling up a ton of debt right now. In addition to opening up more options at my current place of employment, it might ultimately be a useful skill to have if I was looking to become a TD at an animation studio.

 

Any recommendations for courses/independent study type stuff? Any sense in pursuing certifications?

 

Thanks in advance.

All you need is a cert I have one in that. Network+ had it since 2001 I believe.

 

I hardly think a single cert is enough unless you have significant experience in that role already.

[Rodney]

I hardly think a single cert is enough unless you have significant experience in that role already.

 

The cert is mainly just a checkbox thing.

Nowadays with resumes being increasingly automated and filtered by 'employee-hiring' systems that cert can make the difference between being flagged for further consideration and not being considered.

 

I've been out of the realm of network admins for many years but I understand that many companies don't put a lot of stock in the certifications themselves as they've seen many people who are certified that still can't perform to the standard (i.e. if you've got enough money you can eventually get the certification). Still, these companies usually just need the one person so they use the filters to narrow down the pool of people from which to pick. If everyone who applies is certified they can then focus on other (more important) criteria, such as the experience you mention.

[Dpendleton77]

I've been thinking of applying for a network admin position at my current place of employment. They list a CS (computer science) degree as one of the requirements. Casually thumbing through a CS course catalog from the local extension campus, it seems like overkill for network admin stuff, more like it is geared toward software engineering/software development.

 

Anybody out there doing this for a living now, and have any recommendations? I think this path might fit my talents better, but not keen on going back to school or piling up a ton of debt right now. In addition to opening up more options at my current place of employment, it might ultimately be a useful skill to have if I was looking to become a TD at an animation studio.

 

Any recommendations for courses/independent study type stuff? Any sense in pursuing certifications?

 

Thanks in advance.

All you need is a cert I have one in that. Network+ had it since 2001 I believe.

 

I hardly think a single cert is enough unless you have significant experience in that role already.

Of course you need the experience and should have a CCNA cert to back it up.

[robcat2075]

I remember they used to have an official certification for Flash.

 

I was thinking of doing it then I thought, "Wait, I already have a job doing Flash..."