"Rear Window" (is gestating)

[robcat2075]

The deadline for completing your Rear Window segment has been extended (to Sept 30.)

 

If you need more time to render, you got it!

 

If you need more time to animate, you got it!

 

If you didn't even get started and still want to do a bit for the project, you got it!

[fae_alba]

can we have a roll call on were every stands with their projects?

[robcat2075]

I am in the larval stage.

[fae_alba]

I am in the larval stage.

 

Let us know when you make it to pupa!

[robcat2075]

Also... Jason Hess (thejobe) tells me he is slowly getting his segment rendered. Dhar Jabouri (dhar), tells me he has finished "the planning stage" and does intend to get something done for the project.

[markw]

Well, I'm at the seemingly endless 'tweaking' of things stage, before trying out some final renders...

[mouseman]

We are still animating and not rendering. We hope to be 80% done with blocking animation by Thursday, and have some more polished animation in progress. We obviously have not started doing any rendering.

[thejobe]

another 7 hours of rendering and i should be done.... yes!

man i need a new PC lol

[fae_alba]

So... in collaboration with robcat, I am setting the new and improved deadline for Rear Window submissions to be (drum roll please)

 

September 30, 2012.

 

Plenty of time for those who really really wanted to submit one but thought the couldn't because of time..plenty of time to finish those projects already started..

 

This is the last extension...promise!

[Kamikaze]

I can't believe after all the times I have watched the video tutorial on this project I just now caught that you said 2 sec. NOT two frames ..I use frames as my setting so that would equal 48 frames .......my wife has always told me, I hear what I want to hear, but in this case I had no reason to care if it was 2 frames or 2 sec.

 

Mike

[robcat2075]

I can't believe after all the times I have watched the video tutorial on this project I just now caught that you said 2 sec. NOT two frames ..I use frames as my setting so that would equal 48 frames .......my wife has always told me, I hear what I want to hear, but in this case I had no reason to care if it was 2 frames or 2 sec.

 

Mike

 

You can probably grab all the keys in the PWS and slide them.

[Kamikaze]

Exactly what's suppose to be in those first 2 seconds? looks like I may not have any transitional time ..... depends on what is filling those 2 sec. sometimes that dragging doesn't seem to drag, the manipulator is the after selecting but no dragging...I know I have done something non kosher , Ive been away from AM for a few years...........Oh, I meant to ask .....when getting ready to render and positioning the 3d frame thingy ....how should I work it if I have flying objects getting very near the camera at a point in time?

 

Thanks for you patience...I hope..smile

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

Exactly what's suppose to be in those first 2 seconds? looks like I may not have any transitional time .....

 

Per the viideo, You leave those 2 seconds unused ( and unrendered, for now) so that a camera transition from the last segment to yours may be fashioned. We dnt' know what that will be untila ll the segments are in and an order has been chosen.

depends on what is filling those 2 sec. sometimes that dragging doesn't seem to drag, the manipulator is the after selecting but no dragging..

 

It may be necessary to drag each object timeline separately, let me know if that works.

[Kamikaze]

Thanks Robcat I'll give it a try that way..

 

Mike C

[Rodney]

I'm hoping folks are working on their 'Rear Window' entries.

That'll ensure more projects/contests keep appearing. REF Topic: Do We Need More Contests?

 

Not to go off topic but perhaps continuing the conversation will keep this Community Project in the limelight.

 

Can anyone get me caught up with what Community Projects and Contests are on the schedule?

I know of the following upcoming 'events' (Not all of which are contests but are recurring events):

 

Next Up:

-2012 "Rearview Window" Community Project (Deadline: 30 September)

-2012 "Halloween" (Deadline: 31 October)

-2012 "Christmas" (Deadline: 24 December)

-2013 "New Years" (Deadline: 1 January 2013)

-2013 Mascot Contest (Deadline: 2013)

-2013 Community Project (Deadline: 2013)

 

What am I missing?

[robcat2075]

If there isn't a mascot contest around year's end, we ought to have some themed contest for around that time.

[Kamikaze]

As some know..I just recently got back into A:M after being away for a few year...but that didn't keep me from jumping head long into the "rear window" project .....I may have bitten off more than I can chew ...But I will , baring any rendering issues, have something to submit ..... tho I may not have the required 2 sec ... space at the beginning ..... all in all a project to work on whether ones own or a group is a excellent way to stay sharp or re acquaint....

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

tho I may not have the required 2 sec ... space at the beginning .....

 

We'll figure something out!

[Kamikaze]

I worked last night on getting things as requested, some success....Im having a blast regardless .......I 'll have to do more research on backing particles and pre rendering? the cloth sim ...I have both in there....

 

I do appreciate all the guidance ..

 

Mike C

[fae_alba]

..Im having a blast regardless .....

Mike C

 

that's the point of these group projects! Good to hear our madness is paying off.

[Kamikaze]

If I want to slow down an project/animation that is running to fast ...is it as simple as going to the PWS and selecting all the keyframes and stretching them out?

Im just about ready to render out my RW contribution but it is all happening a tad fast to me , I rendered out and avi to check the feel and look and it all seems in order (yet very simple animation) , just too fast ....

 

Thanks,

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

If I want to slow down an project/animation that is running to fast ...is it as simple as going to the PWS and selecting all the keyframes and stretching them out?

 

Yes that works. You can also slide chunks later in the time line if they are just happening too soon but aren't too fast them selves.

 

Of course you've saved your work first and you are not resaving with the same file name all the time. Of course not.

[Rodney]

If I want to slow down an project/animation that is running to fast ...is it as simple as going to the PWS and selecting all the keyframes and stretching them out?

Im just about ready to render out my RW contribution but it is all happening a tad fast to me , I rendered out and avi to check the feel and look and it all seems in order (yet very simple animation) , just too fast ....

 

Thanks,

 

Mike C

 

Well, be careful here.

If you have keyframes that are in sync with dialogue or music this could knock it out of sync for you.

You don't just want to stretch out everything when stretching out specific problem areas will do.

 

The following is something most people would be better served to do in a dedicated application designed for editing movies but something we can also do in A:M:

We can retime a movie by bringing it back into A:M as a patch image, decal or rotoscope.

We can stretch out shots and sequences, reduce them, even reverse and repeat parts of the movie.

We can retime specific actions of individual characters if they are rendered out separately so that they in effect deliver a different performance.

You would do this via the frame option underneath the image you want to retime in the movie.

[Kamikaze]

Wow a lot of info .....Robcat.... Ill make sure to do it under a new save .....Rodney, thats all new to me and I'll sure look up the set by step process of patch image and the others..wonder if that could be a safer option(s)..........

 

Thanks Guys

 

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

I will note that reshooting a rendering on a patch will make it not-3D any more.

[Kamikaze]

Robcat...Ooo..good to know....

[Rodney]

I will note that reshooting a rendering on a patch will make it not-3D any more.

 

Whoops. VERY GOOD POINT!

Sorry Robert, I forgot that was an intrinsic part of 'Rear Window'.

 

For what its's worth, flat planes would still give a mostly 3D effect if *all* of the elements where rendered separately and composited appropriately. (But that sure sounds like a whole lot of work!)

 

With everything going 3D these days that becomes an even more important consideration when using rendered layers and compositing. The cool thing is that if each separate element is a rendering of the original 3D geometry then it should still retain it's 3D look. There are of course a lot of areas where such things become more difficult. For instance a character that begins at the front of the stage/scene and receeds toward the back. One would have to be very careful of plane clipping and such as the image plane recedes.

 

This is where the new Open EXR 2.0 format should help considerably in compositing because it (supposedly) it can store depth information.

[Kamikaze]

Houston Im having a problem ....I select all the keyframes in the PWS and hover over the handle , it shows the one arrow going in the direction of stretching out the animation but it wont move in either direction.

 

and bake particles is not selectable ,greyed out, I clicked on unbake sense it was selectable but nothing seemed to happen .....Ive never knowingly selected, back partices...

 

Any ideas?

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

Sliding KeyFrames

 

SlidingKeyFrames.mov

[markw]

...and bake particles is not selectable ,greyed out, I clicked on unbake sense it was selectable but nothing seemed to happen .....Ive never knowingly selected, back particles...

 

Any ideas?

 

Mike C

Have you turned on particles in the choreography you're intending to bake? If its not on then the bake option will be greyed out.

If you are still adjusting timings and things I would wait on the baking front. Save it to the very last thing to do.

When you bake particles, A:M will generate some new files, .par & .pai, which contain the particles rendering information. They will be made in the same location as the project file containing the choreography that you are baking. These new files and the project that generated them must remain together especially if you are using NetRender, it only loads projects containing choreography's and not the choreography files themselves. Netrender will assume the .par & .pai files are in the same location as the project loaded into it.

I'v found it best to make a specific folder containing the project file solely for doing particle baking to stop things getting lost.

[robcat2075]

Sliding KeyFrames

 

SlidingKeyFrames.mov

 

I think I've ascertained what caused the situation in my example video where not all keyframes in a bounding box were getting selected.

 

I expanded Tinwoodsman>Actions>choreography Action1>Bones

 

but then i only collapsed Tinwoodsman before i tried to bounding-box select.

 

If I go back and collapse Bones, choreography Action1, Actions and then Tinwoodsman, a bounding-box selection works properly.

[Kamikaze]

Robcat .....Thanks "again" for the help ..... Im going ta give it another go tonight ....

 

MarkW... I'll be sure to save the backing for last .... and your right I did not have the particle on ..... I never would have thought .... I'l make note of all you have mentioned.

 

Thanks again ...

 

Mike C

[Kamikaze]

Ok now that I have particles baked .....what do I do from here ...I am ready to render ..I think ....do I need draw particles on in render even tho I have baked? does the render automatically know I have backed them and knows where to find the file made when baking?

 

Thanks,

Mike C

[robcat2075]

Ok now that I have particles baked .....what do I do from here ...I am ready to render ..I think ....do I need draw particles on in render even tho I have baked? does the render automatically know I have backed them and knows where to find the file made when baking?

 

Thanks,

Mike C

 

I think you need to have Particles ON, but rendering one frame both ways would make certain.

 

did you figure out your stereo question?

[Kamikaze]

Will make a test .....not sure what the stereo question was....my memory = bad

[robcat2075]

And... If I'm doing something that has some great unknown like a stereo effect, I'll do a partial render with the "step" set to some high number like 24 and see if the effect is coming out as I expect through the shot, rather than render the whole thing and find out it's wrong.

[Kamikaze]

Not sure what the step render is.......and its settings

 

Well after doing all that waiting on baking particles ..... when I render it still shows computing dynamics .... I thought the purpose or one of them was that all the particle processing would be done....unless Im not doing something correct, which is always possible .. if render Parti. hair is not selected it doesnt render..

Humm

 

Mike

[robcat2075]

Not sure what the step render is.......and its settings

 

Where you set your start and end frame range in the render settings... there is also a "step" value.

 

1 is the default.

 

If you set it to 2 it will render every second frame. If you set it to 17 it will render every 17th frame.

[Kamikaze]

Looks like it will take 1 hr 30 min plus per frame to render ..... its a short skit ,about 1700 frames ... Im now hoping that the bake particles is to make sure particles blend together if one has to stop renders and restart at last frame, I will need to split up the rendering I wont be able to do it on one render.

 

Mike C

 

test render one frame,

Oops ! at 85 % Box saying "encountered an improper argument" !

[robcat2075]

I strongly recommend you do a small res test render to make sure everythign is gong the way you expect.

 

Also, are you using the render preset that was with the original download? Those should have most things right.

[Kamikaze]

Im doing just a single frame in stereo to check the particle render with your included pres..... I still have some more work to do from the tests so far

 

I had my first blue screen crash under windows that Ive had in nearly a decade .. while working with particle baking ...... I had to laugh ... brung back bad old memories.....

I guess I need to see if there is a help file or tutorial when it comes to baking particles. the tech Ref has nothing .....

[markw]

Looks like it will take 1 hr 30 min plus per frame to render ..... its a short skit ,about 1700 frames ... Im now hoping that the bake particles is to make sure particles blend together if one has to stop renders and restart at last frame, I will need to split up the rendering I wont be able to do it on one render.

 

Mike C

 

test render one frame,

Oops ! at 85 % Box saying "encountered an improper argument" !

Ouch! 1hr 30 per frame!

I'v used particles in my contribution too but my slowest frames are around 10min from memory for a non stereo render. I'm soon to do a step render of the whole thing in stereo but I'm hoping the added stereo will only make it around 20min a frame at worst.

As I understand it one of the main reasons for baking particles and dynamic constraints, is so we can use Netrender for rendering if we have more than one CPU core available to us.

And at 1hr 30 a frame, I would recommend using Netrender (if you aren't already using it) to cut your overall render time down.

[robcat2075]

Yes, we may want to investigate what is causing that to take so long to render.

[Kamikaze]

I have sprite smoke and hair sys , just noticed the other day that those have a property for bake particle and when turned on they go through a process of baking too....so not sure why the Chor has one, unless it also has to be run after you turn on the individual bake particles ....1hr 30 is an awful long time,,

 

If I render a number of frames and stop and then later restart where I left off ...will that effect how the particle sys look in final composite .....

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

I have sprite smoke and hair sys ,

Hair can be time consuming

 

just noticed the other day that those have a property for bake particle and when turned on they go through a process of baking too....so not sure why the Chor has one, unless it also has to be run after you turn on the individual bake particles ....1hr 30 is an awful long time,,

 

I believe the Baked property gets set to "ON" by A:M after you have baked.

 

I'm not sure if setting it to OFF permanently discards your baking or just temporarily ignores it.

 

If I render a number of frames and stop and then later restart where I left off ...will that effect how the particle sys look in final composite .....

 

The promise of Baking is that you can resume later without a glitch.

[Kamikaze]

I baked my particles and it didn't set my group prop. to on and when I reloaded the project later AM claimed files were missing....the files were where they were suppose to be but their sizes were 0mb .... I may just have to let this project render out while Im on vacation for a week and hope it all renders out .....

 

Mike C

[markw]

I have sprite smoke and hair sys , just noticed the other day that those have a property for bake particle and when turned on they go through a process of baking too....so not sure why the Chor has one, unless it also has to be run after you turn on the individual bake particles ....

I'm not sure I fully understand, sorry.

Could you post some screen shots of what you are describing. I can find no 'Property' for baked particles.

 

I baked my particles and it didn't set my group prop. to on and when I reloaded the project later AM claimed files were missing....

Group prop. to on? Which files did it say were missing?

[robcat2075]

Baking files are saved to where the PRJ is saved. For Rear Window we've been only been saving Chors. After you load your Chor, save a PRJ to the same location, then bake. Then when you want to render, load that PRJ again and see if it locates your baking files.

[Kamikaze]

First thing I did when I got the RW Chor was load it and save the project file , and the files after baking where where the prj. file was save but the pai and par files were there and AM was saying they could not be found...that is, some of them.... the ones AM could not find had no size, containing no information I guess so AM reported them as missing ..thats all I can come up with.....

 

Mike C

[robcat2075]

First thing I did when I got the RW Chor was load it and save the project file , and the files after baking where where the prj. file was save but the pai and par files were there and AM was saying they could not be found...that is, some of them.... the ones AM could not find had no size, containing no information I guess so AM reported them as missing ..thats all I can come up with.....

 

As an experiment, try setting your chor length to some short length like 1 second and try baking again and see what you get.