New Saying Hello and Suggestions

[MerrieS]

Hello all Im looking at AM for my game creating projects, waiting on a return email from support on some questions. I would like to make a suggestion that one of the Admins or the webmaster make a quick webpage with the specifics of AM, file formats for import/export, video formats import/export etc so that folks can get a quick glance to see if AM will suit their needs.

 

So AM is spline modeling? And doing searching on the forum I see that X format is supported, as I use Unity 3D Im thinking perhaps converting x to fbx. I would not need the advanced material support, just basic materials and I know those usually carry over in X.

 

And video export seems to be Avi or QT?

 

Thanks for the help!

[robcat2075]

Welcome to the forum!

 

Hello all Im looking at AM for my game creating projects, waiting on a return email from support on some questions.

 

Ask them here!

 

I would like to make a suggestion that one of the Admins or the webmaster make a quick webpage with the specifics of AM, file formats for import/export, video formats import/export etc so that folks can get a quick glance to see if AM will suit their needs.

 

We've had that out several times. I think such a page would be useful but the reality is A:M, like other full-featured 3D apps, has so much in it that a complete list would either be too long for a quick glance or too short on detail to give a true picture.

 

For example, you'd think something like "JPG import" would be fairly self-explanatory, but there have been people who read something like that, bought the program, and then felt ripped off because A:M wouldn't automatically convert a JPG into a 3D model.

 

 

So AM is spline modeling?

 

Yes. All-splines, all the time! 99% of polygon models do not make good candidates for importing to A:M for use as spline models. All-quad models can sometimes be edited with good results but this is not a new-user endeavor.

 

And doing searching on the forum I see that X format is supported, as I use Unity 3D Im thinking perhaps converting x to fbx. I would not need the advanced material support, just basic materials and I know those usually carry over in X.

 

I'm not an X guru but people seem to be exporting to that with happy results

 

And video export seems to be Avi or QT?

and numbered image sequence, which are preferred for import purposes.

 

64-bit A:M doesn't have QT in it yet but you can have both 32-bit and 64-bit A:M installed on the same PC.

[pixelplucker]

You can export out .x and convert that to fbx or collada with Blender or Ultimate Unwrap3d. I'm sure there are other converters. Blender might make for a good converter since it will allow you to tweak anything at poly level since AM is a spline modeler.

 

Are you using the Pro version on Unity? I was looking at the comparison list and the free version doesn't support video streaming. AM supports sequential bitmaps, bmp, png (24/32 bit), tga (24/32bit) as well as Quicktime and AVI.

 

As with any non poly modeler for games there needs to be some consideration on how things are constructed so avoiding hooks which are used for patch reduction need to be considered or tweaked in an outside editor.

 

Some of Your advantages with AM would be:

 

Re-usability of actions across characters that have the same skeletons

 

Rigging is outstanding

 

Smart skins that can simulate muscle bulges

 

Decaling and baking of materials with bitmaps and shaders to create complex surfaces cooked down to single bitmaps for each channel.

[MerrieS]

Ok ask them here got ya I did some checking on the Unity3D forum and some developers use AM and have a pipeline to the engine which works nicely. Export to X from AM, then use Milkshape http://chumbalum.swissquake.ch/ to convert to FBX. Users say its a clean export.

 

As to importing models into AM, not I would not do that I would create my models in AM then export. I appreciate your help! Now to rent or buy, that is the question

 

The X import is hidden in Milkshape, its Under Tools (top menu bar) Direct X Mesh

[MerrieS]

You can export out .x and convert that to fbx or collada with Blender or Ultimate Unwrap3d. I'm sure there are other converters. Blender might make for a good converter since it will allow you to tweak anything at poly level since AM is a spline modeler.

 

Are you using the Pro version on Unity? I was looking at the comparison list and the free version doesn't support video streaming. AM supports sequential bitmaps, bmp, png (24/32 bit), tga (24/32bit) as well as Quicktime and AVI.

 

As with any non poly modeler for games there needs to be some consideration on how things are constructed so avoiding hooks which are used for patch reduction need to be considered or tweaked in an outside editor.

 

Some of Your advantages with AM would be:

 

Re-usability of actions across characters that have the same skeletons

 

Rigging is outstanding

 

Smart skins that can simulate muscle bulges

 

Decaling and baking of materials with bitmaps and shaders to create complex surfaces cooked down to single bitmaps for each channel.

 

Ok got you thats very helpful, at the moment Im using Milkshape to rig and just getting into animation, Im doing pretty well but It would be nicer to be able to use IK then to manually adjust every little movement

 

Yes Im using the Pro edition. (My big spend last year), as I would be exporting the model/animation into Milkshape I could do the adjustments there.

 

I also understand A:M supports BVH? Im a follower of TrueBones, and have alot of this sets.

[pixelplucker]

Things that are animated especially characters would work better and far easier in AM. It is really worth the effort to learn the basics in rigging in AM. There are some tutorials on using BVH files on AM skeletons and many have had great results. You would still have to assign cp's (control points that are similar to verticies) to the bones and weight them as well as apply any smart skins to tweak cp positions when a bone is rotated in a particular position.

 

As far as static models I'm not sure if Milkshape would be fine for that or AM, really depends on how simple the poly structure needs to be. Is Unity a BSP based engine like Unreal, Quake etc? Can you create your environment inside it or does it require the geometry for the environment to be created outside such as Renderware?

 

When exporting out a rigged character, would Unity be able to have any influence on the skeletons for environmental reaction and apply physics to that structure or would it be baked in to the animation sequence? In other words would the character slide walking up stairs? If blown up would it be able to ragdoll around in the environment, bounce off walls, crates etc?

[Paul Forwood]

I had some luck exporting X files to XSI and then exporting to FBX for Unity. This worked well until Autodesk bought Softimage. Then I started looking into Blender for converting to FBX but the exporter wasn't working at that time. It would be worth another look now.

Good luck.

[HomeSlice]

as well as apply any smart skins to tweak cp positions when a bone is rotated in a particular position.

The X exporter does not export smartskins, but it DOES export weighted Control Points. Since control point weighting was introduced into A:M, I rarely use smart skins anyway.

 

Here are some video tuts on rigging in A:M

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/196/Building...irst-Rig-Part-1

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/300/Building...irst-Rig-Part-2

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/297/Building...nd-Gizmo-Part-1

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/298/Building...nd-Gizmo-Part-2

 

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/137/Creating-Face-Poses

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/144/Creating...-BlendTech-Talk

 

Here is a video tut on applying decals to a face

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/145/Decaling...ace-part-1-of-4

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/146/Decaling...ace-part-2-of-4

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/147/Decaling...ace-part-3-of-4

(I can't find Part 4)

 

Here is a video introduction to smartskin

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/143/SmartSkinTechTalk

 

Here is one introducing Dynamic Constraints

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/141/Dynamic-...traintTech-Talk

 

A good introduction to Materials

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/106/Bill-You...s-SIGGRAPH-2002

 

Here is one on using Expressions (limited scripting)

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/138/ExpressionsTech-Talk

 

Mixing Live Action and CG

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/107/Paul-Dal...G-SIGGRAPH-2002

 

Not sure what these are about, but they look interesting

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/118/Kevin-Cl...IGGRAPH--99--LA

http://amfilms.hash.com/video/117/Jeff-Can...IGGRAPH--99--LA

(Warning: These were done with a VERY old version of A:M)

 

-----------------------------------------

Non-Video Tuts

 

There is also a large list of tuts in Acrobat PDF format here:

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showforum=207

[Fuchur]

v16 although offers mdd-animation-export and I think Steffen had a look at the OBJ-exporter too... so it should export a better material file now too... I didnt test that till now so.

This would bring out all the animations, but without bone-data. (the animation is saved on a vertex / CP-base.

 

*Fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

Since you have the full version of Unity, maybe we should do a text .x file so you can see how it works, have any info on the workflow?

[MerrieS]

Yes, lets see....Unity like FBX the best as far as animated models. Milkshape does have an X importer, so that might be the best solution for converstion. X to FBX. So a sample model would be fantastic before I purchase AM to test the pipeline, just a simple worm would work thanks!

[robcat2075]

Here's Shaggy in X format.

 

Shaggy_TSM2.zip

 

However there are many options in the X format and I've never used it before so it may be that these have to be set just right depending on what app you are trying to go to.

 

 

 

Some one who knows more will need to chime in.

[Fuchur]

I think you created only a model-file and didnt attach an action to it, right?

DirectX-Exporter containts of two modules.

 

1.) Export the model with the rig, textures etc.

2.) Attach an action to the exported model.

 

Since many people seem to have problems with that, I did a video-tutorial for directX-export from A:M to DirectX > Quest3d:

Video-Tutorial for A:M to Quest3d (Click on HD to get a better quality)

 

Attached to this post you can find a directx-export with Projectfile.

 

The model containts of a simple worm-model with a very simple bone-rig with a a few weighted CPs

(at the base of the model where bone1 and bone2 connect to eachother) and a texture on the worm-model at the head which is a simple smiley-face.

The worm itself is part of a group with a red based-color and a white specularity color at Intensity of 100 and size of 100 (in A:M).

 

In the ZIP you will find two versions of the same model with animation as directx-file and the Project used to export it from A:M.

The first one is right- and the other left-handed. That means the axis of the cordinate system is different. Maya for examples uses another cordinate system than A:M and depending on your software you have to use one or the other export-option.

 

The texture is an PNG. Hopefully your 3d-system can handle that, if not let me know which formats are supported. The texture has to be in the same directory like the models (for quest3d and some other) or maybe in the same relative path to the project-file. (I don't know exactly what you got there.)

 

See you

*Fuchur*

 

PS: It is possible that the animation is very fast or very slow. When exporting from A:M there is an option to set a mutliplicator. For Quest3d I had to set that one really low, that means the animation itself was VERY fast (one frame in Quest3d and like that would not be visible... that is a factor that has to be determined once and can than be used for any export and depends on your 3d-engine / system. For this export-model the multiplicator was set to 1 (default-setting)

worm_direct_x_export.zip

[MerrieS]

Ill test this and let you know the results, bit ill this weekend so resting. Have a great weekend all. Sadly I dont have one program to convert this X format, could someone change the above file into FBX or even obj? (I believe obj supports bones)

[HomeSlice]

Reading through the obj file specification from here: http://www.martinreddy.net/gfx/3d/OBJ.spec

I do not think obj supports bones.

 

Not that this will halp you any, but ....

Curiously, obj does appear to support curves and surfaces, though it would have to be included in whatever plugin was created. Our current plugin does not seem to include this feature, and I am not sure if any obj import/export plugins from any other program supports this either.

 

Specifying free-form curves/surfaces

 

Free-form curve/surface body statements

 

o parameter values (parm)

 

o outer trimming loop (trim)

 

o inner trimming loop (hole)

 

o special curve (scrv)

 

o special point (sp)

 

o end statement (end)

 

Connectivity between free-form surfaces

 

 

o connect (con)

 

 

There are three steps involved in specifying a free-form curve or surface element.

 

o Specify the type of curve or surface (basis matrix, Bezier,

B-spline, Cardinal, or Taylor) using free-form curve/surface

attributes.

 

o Describe the curve or surface with element statements.

 

o Supply additional information, using free-form curve/surface

body statements

[HomeSlice]

OK, I've been trying all evening to find something that can 1) read an animated .X file and 2) export it into some kind of other animated file format. But I have come up with nada. The only two Free programs I found that can read an animated .X file without problems are IrrEdit and the Microsoft DXViewer. IrrEdit is the superior viewer because you can adjust the fps of the animation. But its export options are limited.

You can download it here: http://www.ambiera.com/irredit/index.html

 

IrEdit is basically a demo version of the commercial Copper Cube editor. With this free version, you can view your animated .X files and export javascript for including in HTML 5 webGL web pages (you can use the free CopperLicht JS engine to create 3D games in Javascript with the assets exported from IrEdit), AND you can export static IrrLicht scenes (.irr). You can import .X and .irr files directly into the open source Irrlicht game engine.

http://www.irrlicht3d.org/wiki/index.php?n...AQ#riggedmeshes

 

However, I did find a post from some guy who wrote a "32-page step by step guide detailing how to import Microsoft DirectX format 3D models into Unity, including animated objects"

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/29008-Gui...dels-into-Unity

 

Hope this helps. Please let us know how it goes.

[pixelplucker]

You might want to use Blender for the conversion, it can import .x and export fbx. There might also be a Unity exporter some wheres for Blender.

 

Though it is awkward to use it does work pretty well and the price is hard to beat. I use Blender as a testing program for obj and stl files.

[detbear]

As far as converting .objs into splines from other apps...this is not instant, but very able. The following is a current project I've been working on. I imported this model as an .obj and then fixed it into a more simple spline.... Although I don't plan to take it back out from Animation Master to another App...I went ahead and exported it back out as an obj from the hash version and imported it into Vue:

 

 

 

cheers,

 

William

[MerrieS]

I know the basics of Blender the new, much nicer Beta version. I purchased a tutorial on it, so use it for basic stuff my other programs can do. So Ill try that route. Thanks for all the help folks you have been great. Just so you know Milkshape does have X importer, its under the top tool bar, Tool > Direct X Mesh

[Paul Forwood]

Blender 2.56 Beta doessn't have the full range of importers and exporters yet. Blender 2.49 is the current release version. My attempts to get Blender to import an x file from A:M have all failed so far.

I haven't tried the 3D Wings route yet.

A:M to FBX would be the ideal solution.

[RU2D4]

Commercial Copper Cube, eh? That's Hot (Paris Hilt5on)

 

Microsoft DXViewer is that found here? I can't redistribute the 8.1 DirectX SDK without permission I'm sure.

 

But what's really got me confused is how to pump the xml back into the server that it came from using html with a little bit of Unix and Unbreakable and Unspoken and really?

 

Now you show me how to do that and I'll work for U for free, but no, not really.

 

 

 

 

OK, I've been trying all evening to find something that can 1) read an animated .X file and 2) export it into some kind of other animated file format. But I have come up with nada. The only two Free programs I found that can read an animated .X file without problems are IrrEdit and the Microsoft DXViewer. IrrEdit is the superior viewer because you can adjust the fps of the animation. But its export options are limited.

You can download it here: http://www.ambiera.com/irredit/index.html

 

IrEdit is basically a demo version of the commercial Copper Cube editor. With this free version, you can view your animated .X files and export javascript for including in HTML 5 webGL web pages (you can use the free CopperLicht JS engine to create 3D games in Javascript with the assets exported from IrEdit), AND you can export static IrrLicht scenes (.irr). You can import .X and .irr files directly into the open source Irrlicht game engine.

http://www.irrlicht3d.org/wiki/index.php?n...AQ#riggedmeshes

 

However, I did find a post from some guy who wrote a "32-page step by step guide detailing how to import Microsoft DirectX format 3D models into Unity, including animated objects"

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/29008-Gui...dels-into-Unity

 

Hope this helps. Please let us know how it goes.

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