Old knife

[DanCBradbury]

Hi all.

 

I recently started work on a new model. It's a very old and weathered knife with a wooden handle surrounded by a piece of leather. Just wondering if it looks anywhere near photorealistic (which i know it's not) and what i can do to improve it. Oh and, does anyone have any materials for leather?

 

Hope you guys can help me out with this.

[Eric2575]

Even an old object should have some specular highlights, right?

[lazz]

Wow Dan, your stuff is really good. I like it. The handle is great, but I think the blade should shine a bit, right now its got like 0 specularity. But other than that It is really lookin cool! keep it up!

[DanCBradbury]

Wow Dan, your stuff is really good. I like it. The handle is great, but I think the blade should shine a bit, right now its got like 0 specularity. But other than that It is really lookin cool! keep it up!

well, right now it's specular settings are Size: 13%, Intensity: 830%, and the reflectivity setting is 0-100% (based on reflecivity map).

[bentothemax]

aha, well, i would suggest moving the light so it casts a spec highlith, with a good instensity, then change the radience levels, based on what u need.

 

 

(i asume ur using radiosity)

[lazz]

it's specular settings are Size: 13%, Intensity: 830%

 

then again, maybe the specularity's good enough. lol. Hmm, well I don't know then, the blade just doesn't look like a piece of metal. I had guessed it was specularity but that's for sure not it if you've got that at 830%!! lol. But ya, the blade doesnt quite give the appearance as a piece of metal to me. Do you know what I mean? But ya, still, its totally looking awesome. Great work

[DarkLimit]

nice model........but as stated it looks flat cuz of lack of specularity, also the even shadows sorta takes away....I don't know much about lighting so I could be wrong......

 

easy.......

[DanCBradbury]

Well, here is the model (flat shaded) in model mode.

 

I've found that radiosity realy loves to dull both reflectivity, and spectrality because with rays bouncing off of everysurface in eveyr possible angle, it's like it's in a sky light choreography, and spectrality is hardly noticable. So what i'm probably going to do is only use one light for my renders. that way the spectrality will be very bright and centralized in one area... instead of the whole knife surface.

[Zaryin]

Hey Dan, that's a beautiful knife. Can't wait to see the next render with one-light set-up.

[KenH]

Nice knife. Fancy donating it to the TWO cause? I'm sure Ku-Klip would find a use for it.

[DanCBradbury]

here you guys go... i repositioned the lights so you could see the spectral atributes.

[Dhar]

Looking shweet

 

Is it supposed to be a new or used knife?

[DanCBradbury]

Well, the story that goes along with the knife goes like this: it's the year 1400, and the knife is hand crafted and well kept, but it's 90 years old. The majority of the knife will be fine, but i need to redo the blade. I will be adding rust to the sharp areas of the knife and dulling the reflectivity a bit. Hopefully i'll get it looking very old but taken care of. That's what i'm striving for

[DanCBradbury]

k guys, here's the most recent rendering with my knife.

 

Does this look old enough? please critique.

[Eric2575]

Hey Dan:

 

This is off the top of my head as I look at your last render.

 

In that particular render, the blade actually looks like stone. I don't have an old piece of wheathered metal in front of me, but this doesn't look right. If the blade is really old and already has rust on it, I would suggest some pitting, especially where the rust is eating into it. For an old blade, the tip is way too pointy. Use and age should have dulled the tip a bit (I know you said it was well kept, but). I would also suggest a bit more lighting on the interesting handle, it's getting lost in the dim scene. Apply a bump and diffuse on the handle to give it more detail and depth. One last thing: Lay down a similar knife on a surface and you will see that the tip will make contact with the surface unless the handle is made out of lead - balance. In your render, the tip is obviously floating over the surface as evidenced by the shadow.

 

Ok, I've spoken my piece. .....Wait, one last to last thing: The midpoint of the blades cutting edge has some kind of crease. Is that modeled that way on purpose? If so, that's fine. Just wondering.

 

Hope I didn't rant too much...later

[DanCBradbury]

In that particular render, the blade actually looks like stone

thats probably because of the lighting set up i have now. I should probably redo the rig i have at the moment.

 

I would suggest some pitting

what is pitting?

 

Apply a bump and diffuse on the handle to give it more detail and depth.

i got cha there. lol. I already have those, the picture show's just how many texutres i'm using for the handle. The render i posted does a bit more justice to the leather... but i do need to redo the wood part.

 

The midpoint of the blades cutting edge has some kind of crease

the blade is fairly reflective, and all that is is the shadow made between the wall and the roof. it is radiosity after all.

 

Thanks for the critiques eric.

[Eric2575]

No problemo, Dan.

 

Pitting - incorporate small nicks and dents into the model via bump maps. A rusty surface eats into the metal, creating small pits.

 

Are you using decals to make the rusty spots? If so, you can add that same decal as a bump map right over the same spot to create a little depth (pits). Also, if you look at almost any knife, you will usually see rust and crud collect where the blade meets the handle. Your knife is spotless right there.

[DanCBradbury]

Pitting - incorporate small nicks and dents into the model via bump maps. A rusty surface eats into the metal, creating small pits

not normaly. Metal oxidization has a more bubling effect rather than a disolving, "pitting," effect. But yes, in most rust there is a certain level of bumps and wavyness... but this knife isnt in that bad of a condition. lol. it will however... give you tetnis. lol.

 

Are you using decals to make the rusty spots? If so, you can add that same decal as a bump map right over the same spot to create a little depth

yup... but i'd never do somthing so cheap as to use a desaturated color image to get me a bump map. I hate it when people will take a photo of something like a brick wall, desaturate it and call it a bump map. Plus... normal maps are much better and rarely end in aliesing of slopes. You should realy convert over to the power, of the normal mapping.

 

Also, if you look at almost any knife, you will usually see rust and crud collect where the blade meets the handle. Your knife is spotless right there.

i do see that now... you bring up a good point sir eric. i will fix this problem emidiatly.

 

darn... that means i have to redo every single one of the blades textures...

[Eric2575]

Normal mapping...The power of nor....mal mapping??? Tell me more bout normal mapping? I do want to convert. Don't want to be known as using "cheap" methods

 

You're right about the bubbling rust, but you mentioned that it was taken care of through the years. When I've cleaned the rust off of an object that I haven't used in a long time, I find that the areas that I've cleaned the rust off of, are pitted, hehe

[DanCBradbury]

Normal mapping...The power of nor....mal mapping??? Tell me more bout normal mapping? I do want to convert. Don't want to be known as using "cheap" methods

 

Normal Maping Summary

 

Normal maps are great, and are fairly easy to use. Photoshop has a plugin where you can go directly from a grey scale image to a normal map. Only problem... about 2 days ago it stoped working. and every time i try to use it it locks up photoshop. I feel about ready to throw my computer out the flippin' window. lol. Here's the newest render for the knife.

[Eric2575]

Very, very knife...jeez, dont' flame me, I couldn't help myself...ahem, I mean nice, yes, very, very nice.

 

Thanks for the link, Matt. I'll check it out and convert to the power

[DanCBradbury]

Very, very knife...jeez, dont' flame me, I couldn't help myself...ahem, I mean nice, yes, very, very nice.

??? what do ya mean? i wasnt yelling at you... i just want to destroy my computer cause my photoshop wont let me make the wonderful normal maps any more... something about a programming error... then photoshop turns off. I am sad now.

 

Thanks for the link, Matt. I'll check it out and convert to the power :wink:

mi nombre es daniel. pero, todos está bueno. llámame daniel, por favor.

 

anything i need to change with the knife? is the setting good enough?

[Eric2575]

Erst einmal bitte ich um Entschuldigung. Ich weiss, dass Dein Name Daniel ist. Verzeihung

 

I meant, please don't flame me for that bad joke...you know, very nice, not very knife....ahh, forget it, bad joke

 

Well, now that you asked for more constructive criticism...the spotlight on the wall rendered too bright in my humble opinion. With a spot on the wall that bright, why isn't the blade reflecting some of that or at least getting some specular highlights from it? Same with the base. It's like the wall is reflecting the light but not much else is reflecting it. And I still say you need to give the handle a little specular, just a bit. The handle is beautiful, but looks too flat. You did this in a Cornell box, didn't you?

 

P.S. I'm getting information overload in regards to normal maps. Some posts say you have to have V.12 to use them, other posts say it can be done in V.11.1 (my version) with a plugin. I have no idea of how to do normals. I'm one of those guys that needs to have a very hands on approach to anything I try for the first time. Limited processing ability - lots of eagerness to learn, but not enough gray matter to absorb it all

 

Would you post a wireframe of your knife and tell me how the heck you use normal maps? Btw, do you use the plugin, or do you have AM v.12? I already downloaded the Nvidia Photoshop plugin.

 

Did I mention that the point of your knife seems razor sharp pointy? Do you have a reference pic we could see?

[DanCBradbury]

Sorry for the very long belated reply. College got in the way... you know how finals go.

 

Well, now that you asked for more constructive criticism...the spotlight on the wall rendered too bright in my humble opinion.

yeah... i was thinking that too. I significantly lowered the brightness of all the lights in the shot.

 

P.S. I'm getting information overload in regards to normal maps. Some posts say you have to have V.12 to use them, other posts say it can be done in V.11.1 (my version) with a plugin. I have no idea of how to do normals. I'm one of those guys that needs to have a very hands on approach to anything I try for the first time. Limited processing ability - lots of eagerness to learn, but not enough gray matter to absorb it all

normal maps are just a texture like color maps, specular intesity maps... all you have to do is paste them onto a model and away you go. Basically it's just a suped up version of a bump map... but totally different. lol. I'm not real sure on what versions of A:M came with normal map ability, but i do know that my version... 12.0 has normal maps in the texture type list.

 

Did I mention that the point of your knife seems razor sharp pointy? Do you have a reference pic we could see?

yeah... probably too sharp. I've dulled it out considerably.

 

Overall, the guys i'm doing this for are looking for a very old, well kept knife, that when it was produced had limited resources for its construction. I hope the bumps and inlets i've put in it make it look older.

 

by the way, nice new icon eric. RARR!!

[arkaos]

Eric, if you have v11.1, you can download v12.0n any time you want.

[Eric2575]

It looks better every time you post a render.

 

I just got AM 2006 with the option to apply a decal as a normal map. Gonna play around with that. My avatar is a sketch of a T-rex I am also working on - on and off. Gotta learn how to flatten and apply decals, etc.

 

Also posting an update on my Saleen. Working on AM stuff as time permits.

 

Dan, hope all your finals went the way you expected or better

 

Eric

[lazz]

Going for a touch of realism eh? lol HOLY COW! That is looking REALLY great. I like the stand and the backdrop too. Very, very cool. Good work! Keep it up!

[DanCBradbury]

Hey guys, thanks for the coments. And YAY! i passed all my finals with a's and b's.

 

anywho, i changed the model up a bit and changed some of the texture and material properties. I made the blade metal a browner color because of the rust, i fixed up the area where the ridge on the blade stops at the handle, and i made the leather a lot "leathery" by using the inverted diffuse map (where i made the leather darker because of the way a hand would have been touching it for all those years) for a reflectivity map, because worn leather turns real dark and get's all shiny shiny.

 

let me know what you guys think.

[Eric2575]

Hey Dan:

 

Congrats on your finals and a Merry Christmas to you and your family.

 

Damn, dude that knife looks like it just came out of a ancient dig site, got cleaned up and displayed in a museum. Excellent work

[Zaryin]

I like the knife, but something about the camera angle is making it look a little too 2D instead of 3D.

[DanCBradbury]

hm... maybe it cause the knife itself isnt that thick... not sure.

 

thanks so far on the comments guys. But i'm still debating weather the blade is to reflective. after ceveral hundred years metal looses almost all reflectivity and becomes dull. I need to talk to the designer about it.

 

What do you guys think? is the blade too reflective? i've posted a pic of a 10% reflective decal map, as opposed to the 30% reflective decale on the last post.

Knife003m.mov

[Eric2575]

I like a lesser amount of reflectivity, but I don't like the way the whole blade looks darker now. There's gotta be a way to turn down the reflectivity and still keep the blade looking like it's in a spotlight. The last render looks like the blade is in a shadow zone.

[DanCBradbury]

well, if it's old enough it wouldnt have any reflectivity at all, and the metal would be very dark... but i'm trying to get my knife in a middle ground between old and anchient.

 

somewhere above this level of rust and grim

 

 

but it takes a long time to tinker with my model now, cause all i'm working with are textures at the moment... and they're not very easily changed... especialy normal maps.

[DanCBradbury]

After spending some time with the designers, it seems they didnt want it to be very old after all. lol. What a wonderful "learning experience" it was making the blade old as dirt. lol. Anyhow, this version is more acurrate to what they were after.

 

It is supposed to have a more used look as opposed to old. I took your advice Eric by putting some rust near the base of the blade, where the leather wraps arond it, and i also made it a lot more reflective. I still need to adust the normal map intensities, and change the wood to something much newer. Let me know what you guys think.

[Dhar]

Awsome workmanship!

 

Doesn't look like it was used much, and I don't see the rust you're talking about.

[DanCBradbury]

Awsome workmanship!

 

Doesn't look like it was used much, and I don't see the rust you're talking about.

thanks dahr.

 

For the most part the rust is fairly sublte. There's more concentrated areas around the base and the blade ridge.