entity Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 I got it as smooth and as even as I could, but he still has a slight hick-up in his walk. I've BUSTED MY BRAIN over this. There's hot neural fluid leaking from my skull! GmanWalk3.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddustin Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Is that stuff flammable? I think it looks really good. I happen to be animaticlly challenged when it comes to characters. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypnomike Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Hi Rich! That's a great model you're animating, is it one of yours? There are some nice effects in your walk cycle, the skin movement in particular impressed me. I've been watching it on a loop for a while and I have a couple of suggestions which I hope will help. When the back foot comes up heel first it may look a little better if you bend the toe until the foot leaves the floor. It may also help to speed things up a little as the stride appears to be on the slow side. Nothing seems to be happening to the face. I know this is a walk cycle but the face seems to make the character look a little robotic compared to the very human body. It may be better to do this in choreography so that you can introduce more secondary movement without having a face cycle. Hope this helps and keep posting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 My two cents - The feet seem to almost hit toe first before the heel. This makes his walk look tentative and unnatural. Looking forward to updates. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted November 1, 2004 Share Posted November 1, 2004 Swinging his lower arms abit will give it a more flowing movement. Also, the right shoulder joint doesn't seem to bend naturally. The pectorial should be stretched when his right arm moves backwards. And it looks like it rolls too much. Keep it up and don't forget to drain that spinal tap! Don't fret either as it only takes a few tweaks(the right ones) to transform movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williamgaylord Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 You have probably already done this, but I find editing the actual motion curves in the time window is easier when trying to tweak things (at least until you start getting a mass of "spaghetti"...). About the stride, you might keep the toe planted longer and roll the foot more off the ball of the foot before it leaves the ground and then come down on the heal at a slightly higher angle. That will also allow the knees to bend a bit more. Overall looking good. Just some relatively minor tweaks and you'll have a first class walk cycle. Bill Gaylord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 2, 2004 Hash Fellow Share Posted November 2, 2004 I got it as smooth and as even as I could It's so smooth now that I think you're losing "weight". Anyway, I think ANY walk cycle is going to look weird after it's repeated exactly several times. But I agree with the several above about the toe needing to push off more into the next step. And the shoulders would benefit from a different treatment and... I know you're wanting to do realistic and not cartoon, but Richard Williams "Animator's Survival Kit" has a great big huge section on walks and he addresses just about everything that's probably bothering you about what you have so far. Geez, only $20 used on Amazon... that's a steal considering he used to charge people $1000 to listen to him say the same stuff in person. Are black socks in now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsguy Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 I, too, am weak when it comes to characters. It's nice to know I'm not alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Yes, Thanks for coming to my aid. I'm going to rest a little before delving into this walk again. robcat2075 says: the toe needing to push off more into the next step. And the shoulders would benefit from a different treatment and... william gaylord says: you might keep the toe planted longer and roll the foot more off the ball of the foot before it leaves the ground and then come down on the heal at a slightly higher angle. That will also allow the knees to bend a bit more. modernhorse says: The feet seem to almost hit toe first before the heel. This makes his walk look tentative and unnatural. hypnomike says: When the back foot comes up heel first it may look a little better if you bend the toe until the foot leaves the floor. It may also help to speed things up a little as the stride appears to be on the slow side. Reply: Everyone, Yes, the walk needs the toe-push off... and a little more of a "heel plant" before "foot down flat"! It's hard to see from the angle of the camera, but his feet actually angle outward as they leave the ground and the leg swings outward a little and then comes back toward center again before planting the foot. hypnomike, As far as changing the speed--??? I don't think that would help IMO. It seems about right to me. I could tweak that too, but I have no context to animate this walk for... tempo/speed would have to do with timing and it's just the cycle I'm concerned with right now... the rythm and mechanics. It is noted though for future use of the walk. And Robcat it has lost some of the weight I had before. I felt I had to much... this maybe what it needs to, just a little... I don't want him to get too exaggerated. I know you're wanting to do realistic and not cartoon, but Richard Williams "Animator's Survival Kit" has a great big huge section on walks and he addresses just about everything that's probably bothering you about what you have so far. Geez, only $20 used on Amazon... that's a steal considering he used to charge people $1000 to listen to him say the same stuff in person. I'd be lying if I said I was going to look into that, so I'll look into that. <_> Are black socks in now? WARNING: inside joke--> Depends on which Bar you happen to stumble into. And KenH, Swinging his lower arms abit will give it a more flowing movement. Also, the right shoulder joint doesn't seem to bend naturally. The pectorial should be stretched when his right arm moves backwards. And it looks like it rolls too much. Okay swinging the lower arms adds weight also, and he needs that but when I walk, I don't swing my arms very much and not even as much as he does! ... and both shoulder joints have the same problem when the clavicle is moved. It's a long rigging story, but he was built as good as I could build him. What's causing that is the bicep roll. The roll moves some of the fan bones a little, but not enough... without getting too post heavy... I can't mechanically fix this and I'm not ripping his rig apart again for MY SANITY. Finally, I have to roll the bicep so I can swing the lower arms forward and back. Don't feel bad starwarsguy and ddustin! I've been at this for 8 months with my first attempt at building a semi-realistic human. This is my second effort and it's been about 6 weeks. It gets better as you go along. Just keep DOIN IT! Way back when I first got A:M version 6 my work wasn't even close to your work. When I got A:M version 8.5, I learned a lot more and built my first humans- I'll look for some old work to show you so you can see my progress...but later... for now, thanks for the replies and don't feel discouraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Okay swinging the lower arms adds weight also, and he needs that but when I walk, I don't swing my arms very much and not even as much as he does! ... and both shoulder joints have the same problem when the clavicle is moved The thing is when I walk normally(slowly) my lower arms move my arms more than the shoulder joint does...if you understand me. Also, maybe a smartskin would fix the peck deformation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 maybe a smartskin would fix the peck deformation? You have to see what I mean... I am only using smartskin on the abdomen area... so all the other smoothing skin is just fanbones. It doesn't have to be perfect... he's going to be wearing clothes eventually... and I want to keep my options open for that area, so smartskin in that area is a no-go. But I will probably try to reduce the rolling of the bicep (just enough to not break the streatching pec) and increase the lower arm swing, as was suggested. I think that will solve this, and roll only looks weird, in the pecs area, when he has his arms at his side- at -90 degrees. (as you can tell, I'm trying to get out of re-rigging that area that caused me such pains.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsommer Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 looks good but one thing maybe to think about........ if you haven't changed or updated the walk yet.... maybe add in some hip motion? not excessive or anything maybe just a little tweak....but his mid section is very stiff.... maybe that could help a little? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanC. Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 One other thing to consider is how far off the ground his feet are actually coming. For such a casual, non-chalant walk his feet are coming awfully high off the ground. As it says in Williams' book, "Normally we lift our feet off the ground just the bare minimum. That's why it's so easy for us to stub out toes and get tipped over." I think this is partly contributing to the awkward-ish cycle, although i think its a very good cycle SeanC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 (edited) SeanC. Posted on Nov 3 2004, 01:27 AM One other thing to consider is how far off the ground his feet are actually coming. For such a casual, non-chalant walk his feet are coming awfully high off the ground. As it says in Williams' book, "Normally we lift our feet off the ground just the bare minimum. That's why it's so easy for us to stub out toes and get tipped over." I think this is partly contributing to the awkward-ish cycle, although i think its a very good cycle Sean, Exactly what I was thinking, so that means I could've gone the conservative route and made the "foot lift" level lower... or I could follow the suggestions of giving him a more emphatic walk. I think I will also pursue a lower level walk that is more casual. patsommer Posted on Nov 2 2004, 08:37 PM looks good but one thing maybe to think about........ if you haven't changed or updated the walk yet.... maybe add in some hip motion? not excessive or anything maybe just a little tweak....but his mid section is very stiff.... maybe that could help a little? patsommer, I have had bad luck with adding hip motion... but I'll try it on the next revision. Seems when I add hip motion the walk becomes more feminine... not that guys don't have hip motion, just that it would be such a small amount added, is it worth adding? EDIT: Forgot to upload the test animation: QUIKtestWALKLg.mov Edited November 3, 2004 by entity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 Sorry, to post so fast, but I just have the time to do this right now without interruptions. I'm in the process of moving right now, so I'm planing to move the computer on the last day... thursday to saturday, I may have to wait for my connections to cable. Hopefully, I won't have to wait that long for a transfer of service.- patsommer Posted on Nov 2 2004, 08:37 PM .... maybe add in some hip motion? not excessive or anything maybe just a little tweak....but his mid section is very stiff.... maybe that could help a little? I'd say that helped a LOT! QUIKtestWALKhipLg.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted November 3, 2004 Admin Share Posted November 3, 2004 He looks a bit stiff. You should save a copy to the side of what you currently have and with another copy just exaggerate the heck out of it. When walking there should be a distinctive arc/swaying that I don't see in his movement. By exagerating I think you'll start to pick up where those arcs need to be. -Rodney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 It's abit jerky. There are probably too many keyframes on the hips or the graph is too steep somewhere. Excellent for someone with the stress of moving on his mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 KenH Posted on Nov 3 2004, 08:30 AM It's abit jerky. There are probably too many keyframes on the hips or the graph is too steep somewhere. Okay, looks like I need to smooth the upper torso bones movement. The hip movement makes it *snap*. I'll be getting back to it in a couple of hours. Thank GOD, I'm on vacation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsommer Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 well thats why i said just a little.... if you move it too much it does look feminine... maybe even about 5 degrees would help... just so it doesnt look so stiff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 (edited) patsommer Posted on Nov 3 2004, 11:17 AM well thats why i said just a little.... if you move it too much it does look feminine... maybe even about 5 degrees would help... just so it doesnt look so stiff I kind of like his Fem walk... just a personal choice... Okay, I smoothed the movement of the torso a little. EDIT: All I have to do now is swing his hands a little and bat his eyelashes and he will be gay... QUIKtestWALKxLg.mov Edited November 3, 2004 by entity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 It seems like the everything above his hips is rotating violently from side to side(axis going through his stomach). Instead of rotating it like that, you might try changing it to "rotating around the axis that goes through his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 3, 2004 Author Share Posted November 3, 2004 Here it is again... hips settled down... they were on a 7 degree rotate... so I took the hips down to 2-3 degrees at it's peaks. Changed the compensating torso movements to match. Thanks for all this help... it gets better and better... AND I'm learning. testWALK_10_03Lg.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelShark Posted November 3, 2004 Share Posted November 3, 2004 Something has bugged me since the first .mov, but I couldn't figure it out. Just got it. He needs to lean forward! Currently it looks like he is walking downhill! Walking is really just falling forward, but catching yourself with each step. See if this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 Yeah, a little helped. I just never knew so much was involved in a walk cycle. I thought they were supposed to be simple. I guess not when you're doing human anatomy. testWALK2_10_03Lg.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patsommer Posted November 4, 2004 Share Posted November 4, 2004 hips look better but the movements are just a little sharp... the neck kinda snaps and at the last part of the step the foot snaps down....... maybe there is a keyframe in the middle that is keeping them from moving smoothly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted November 4, 2004 Author Share Posted November 4, 2004 I need his foot to snap from the impact of planting it down- you know- to show weight. I could get in there and smooth it out, but it may take away from the weight too much. I think I've come to a point where I am very happy with the result. I like the snappyness... it gives him character. I'll come back to it another time to see if I feel the same about it. Thanks ALL! You guys ROCK!!! And you taught me a lot about animation today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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