Selecting Patches into a group - Tiles

[LenseOnLife]

Hi,

 

Looking again for the Forum Expertise

 

It seems simple - so it probably is - just not for me. Frustratingly so.

 

I'm trying to make up a mosaic and then colour it dynamically through poses. Everything is fine EXCEPT I'm not able to set up the groups.

 

Here area couple of examples of the types of groups that I've been trying to set up without any success. I can't seem to be able to set them up when there is a common CP between what I want in the group and what I want outside the group.

 

1. A group with only Orange Tiles

 

2. A Group with only Black Tiles

 

3. A Group with only Green Tiles

 

 

Oliver

[Rodney]

I can think of a couple approaches but much will depend on your targeted goal.

As far as I know a straightforward selection of continuous spline derived four point patches without selecting adjacent patches isn't possible.

There are some caviets and other considerations though...

 

For instance, for some purposes you can approximate the first example by coloring all tiles orange and then targeting the center tile, as you've done and color it white.

Each time you need the orange tiles you color everything and the white would obscure, or remove the center tile.

 

One way some folks might approach all of the above would be to split the patches into additional patches (four patches per tile) and then press on.

If using decals instead of patch images or basic patch surface color this would work. The easy way to do this would be to Right Click and Use the Splitpatch wizard.

 

If spline continuity throughout the entire field of patches isn't required each patch could be it's own separate four sided tile.

This might be the way I'd approach it if using patch images.

 

Yet another approach would be to select appropriate spline locations, Hit the Y key to insert a Control Point and leave holes in the checkerboard pattern.

Then either color the background the appropriate color or place another patch or set of patches behind the checkerboard of tiles to account for the secondary color.

 

I'm sure that doesn't exhaust the possibilities but those are some alternatives.

For instance... several sets of bones attached to specific CPs might in turn be controlled by yet another (master) bone that collects the tiles that are needed.

I'd have to research this one a bit.

 

Another approach would be multiple groups. Grab tiles that are not adjacent to each other and assign them to a group. Then grab other tiles and add them to another group. Keep adding groups until all tiles are accounted for.

 

If any of these are unclear I can post a few demos of these approaches.

[Fuchur]

You will need eighter 2 groups to do what you want or you need a higher density of patches / CPs in your model.

There is no way around that.

 

This is the problem with a "one-selection-mode"-approach, but I have to say I like the simplicity of that much more than I dislike the disadvantages and you will very fast yourself acustom to that and think in the "right" way when modeling stuff like that.

 

In other software, you often can select many different things like vertex (cps), edges (a single spline) and polygones (a patch) by itself, but that makes stuff much more complex and you will often need to switch modes while working and you will often wonder why a certain tool is not available till you release, that you need to select the stuff in a different mode to get the tool you are looking for... if you are used to the "just select something and think about it later"-approach, that can be quite frustrating too...

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Rodney]

While this probably would not be my first approach I thought I'd investigate because I can't recall ever using this approach before.

 

Here's an example of a 5 group solution to the checkerboard... with a patch image assigned to each of the 5 groups.

 

Why 5 groups? Well, because I didn't want to spend time looking for the optimal/minimal group solution when any number of groups (equal to or greater than 2) should work.

[Rodney]

The multi-group method might be what I'd use if I needed to preserve spline continuity from tile to tile.

If the tiles were to be flat I might make them all single patches where each could be selected separately. I might use this latter method if for some reason I absolutely had to include all targeted tiles in the same group.

 

Here's an example of a checkerboard where the black tiles are the result of two groups (the white tiles don't have any group and are the models surface color):

 

 

On my system there is a glitch of sorts that changes the Models surface color to the color of the second group but that can easily be changed to another color. Not sure what is going on there.

[Rodney]

Yet another alternative... one I don't really recommend but a method that keeps all the tiles in one group...

 

Using 5 point patches allows tiles to be selected without including the adjacent tiles, because the 5th Control Point keeps them from being selected.

 

There are issues with 5 point patches that will likely make this a less than optimal solution.

 

 

[robcat2075]

In conventional topologies, it will be necessary to apportion the set of patches among more than one group. It should be possible to only need two groups in most circumstances.

 

For example:

 

 

 

After those groups are made it may be possible to use expressions in one group to make it follow the color settings of the other, but manually keyframing two groups rather than one shouldn't be too onerous.

[LenseOnLife]

Hello everyone,

 

Very comprehensive answers - as always.

 

I just wanted to be sure that I hadn't missed something in terms of grouping patches.

 

For me, the 2-Group approach will work fine. Someday (in the not too distant future), I'll look at expressions, but for now - just 2 groups and use pose sliders to animate the change in colours.

 

Thanks again,

Cheers for now,

 

Oliver

[Rodney]

Ok, Sorry for droning on here but I had to return to this one again.

 

Here's a hybrid approach that I alluded to before. Namely that of using a single (separate) patch for each tile.

An interesting aspect of this (as seen in the attached video) is that this example uses the multi-group method but also adds a single group that controls all the tiles of any given color. Of course, because each tile is a separate piece the selection could be anything... design your mosaic any way you want by grabbing patches and coloring (or decaling) them appropriately.

 

Of course because the tiles are flat this produces the slight facets one might see in a pixelated image or polygonal model.

 

An added benefit of this approach is that since the tiles are each separate from one another they can be animated, modied, exploded... and otherwise manipulated without effecting other tiles.

SinglePatchTiles.mp4

[nemyax]

You can also manage without any groups at all. A UV patch doesn't care what other UV patches share its CPs, so you can group the patches in the UV editor. As long as your decal has two distinct areas, you can arrange them in a checkerboard pattern.

[johnl3d]

Thought I'd throw in my solution

 

make all the patches 4 smaller patches so when selecting you get an extra point in the middle on only the selected patch group

 

color patch groups.prj