Need help with Mirror all smartskins

[Heiner]

Hi there,

 

I have some trouble using the "Mirror all Smartskin". I made my smartskins on the characters left side, and when I try to use the "Mirror all Smartskins" nothing seems to happen. Unfortunateley i am not able to install the help file (downloaded and unpacked it, but it does not open). How is the "Mirror all Smartskins" working?

Regards

Heiner

[robcat2075]

I just tried it on a simple case and it worked as expected and worked left-to-right and right-to-left.

 

Do you...

 

-have a truly symmetrical mesh?

-have truly symmetrical bones?

-with "right" and "left" in the bone names correctly spelled and same capitalization?

 

those are the possibilities that come to mind first.

[Heiner]

Hi there,

the bones are flipped using the TSM flipper, so they should be fine.

I just checked a random cp for the position, its on both sides the same (flipped of course).

However, there is some inconsistecies with the weighting ... will that affect the mirror SSkin too?

When using the command, it generates a new SSkin on the other side, but that new one is empty.

I uploaded the modell in question, if you like to check it out.

Best regards,

Heiner

Little_Hero_AM_V1a.mdl

[robcat2075]

I'm looking at it.

 

Is this mesh imported from a polygon program by any chance? It has a lot of splining things that you'd really not want in an A:M model.

[Mechadelphia]

Hi there,

the bones are flipped using the TSM flipper, so they should be fine.

I just checked a random cp for the position, its on both sides the same (flipped of course).

However, there is some inconsistecies with the weighting ... will that affect the mirror SSkin too?

When using the command, it generates a new SSkin on the other side, but that new one is empty.

I uploaded the modell in question, if you like to check it out.

Best regards,

Heiner

 

Hi Heiner,

 

I ran into this problem when I first started to learn how rigging works in A:M.

 

I downloaded your model and you'll be fine once you adjust your Mirror Mode Tolerance in the "Options" dialogue.

 

When I checked with your model I set mine to .25' and once I did that the Smartskins mirrored just fine.

 

After you change your Mirror Mode Tolerance, delete the already existing (non-working) Smartskin drivers for the right side of your model. Mirror the Smartskins again and the newly mirrored Smartskins should work for you.

 

If you don't delete the drivers on the target side first then the Mirror All Smartskin function won't overwrite the already existing (but non-working) mirrored ones.

[robcat2075]

I tried the mirror mode tolerance but i still get only partial or no mirror with the smartskins.

[Mechadelphia]

I tried the mirror mode tolerance but i still get only partial or no mirror with the smartskins.

 

For which bones exactly?

[robcat2075]

I tried the mirror mode tolerance but i still get only partial or no mirror with the smartskins.

 

For which bones exactly?

 

All four of the bones with smartskin on them. They seem to get smartskin info written into them but it's not doing the deformations.

[Mechadelphia]

I tried the mirror mode tolerance but i still get only partial or no mirror with the smartskins.

 

For which bones exactly?

 

All four of the bones with smartskin on them. They seem to get smartskin info written into them but it's not doing the deformations.

 

I had more success than you did on this model but you are right about the partial successes.

 

I looked closer and the problem is the mesh itself.

 

The mesh looks like it was imported from a polygon format and that is tripping A:M a bit. While it looks symmetrical it is not (not to A:M at least).

 

I copied and mirrored the left forearms and hands within A:M (then mirror bones for the rig) and when I did that I was able to get a perfectly mirrored smartskin for the hands (those bones are hidden).

 

Can you confirm that?

 

(Edited to add: Heiner you will need to clean up the mesh some by mirroring the left half of the body within A:M for this to work the way you are expecting. Also you should detach the sling from the body's mesh before you start to mirror the model)

[robcat2075]

I've had success with manually Copying>PasteMirroring smartskin keyframes from a left smartskin window to a right window but that's a bit fiddly.

 

Something else I found is that in v18 not all the original smartskin keys show up.

[robcat2075]

Demonstration of how to copy smartskin keyframes from one side to the other.

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=45459

[Heiner]

Thanks for your efforts guys!

 

Unfortunateley the delete and copy thing in AM is not an option. You are right, the model is done outside of A:M (Blender to be more specific) for some reasons.

 

First i can do UVing in Blender which i very easy to do there. Second, the model goes also to zBrush for sculpting details, which will return as maps (therefore the UV or decaling as it is called in AM) must stay exactly the way it is.

 

If there would be a way to import a UV layout into AM, that would be a different story, but so far i found none. In AM the rigging and the animating is done. Finished Actions then get exported the Soulcage way (MDD) and get applied in Blender.

 

Therefore it is absoluteley necessary that mesh and UV stay exactly the way they are. That said, i want to return to the UV thing: If there would be a way to import UV Layouts to AM, that would be (at least for me) a real game changer! Then you could just model as you want in AM, export to a OBJ, do the UVing in Blender and just stick the resulting UV layout onto the model in AM.

 

For now, I will try to stay with the solution robcat suggested and copy the smartskins from a left to a right window. Sounds fiddly right, but still better than redo the whole SSkin from scratch.

 

Thanks again for your help!

 

Best regards

Heiner

[robcat2075]

When you say "do the UVing"... what are you doing?

[Heiner]

I am talking about creating the UV coordinates which is the decal layout in AM.

I like to do that externaly because that process is in AM quite tedious. In Blender

its much more comfortable and produces very fast and reliable results. I made a very

short video for you to see. You see how fast a simple cylinder is done, and it works like

that with complex characters too. It not only saves time, since it minimizes the distortion

it also helps to get to good results quickly.

Let me know if you want to know more.

Regards

Heiner

UVing.mp4

[robcat2075]

I made a very

short video for you to see.

 

Is it that all the faces are decaled on one bitmap the thing you need from that?

[Heiner]

If it where possible to get that into AM, that would be good enough.

Regards

Heiner

[robcat2075]

You can already have all your decal stamps on one map, is that what you need?

[Heiner]

Oh, that what you where talking about, No, thats not the issue.

It is about that you have in AM to "unfold" your model manualy.

There is very little tools to do that fast (flatten for example is the only one

i can think of right now).

The creation of the stamp is what i want to do externaly and the layout of the

geometry layed out in 2D is what i want to get into AM. When importing a

OBJ which has these UV texture coordinates, which are equivalent to a

AM stamp, i get the UV as a stamp.

And these UV layouts / Stamps i would like to import seperateley. Then you could

a model outside of AM, import it and do all corrections you need to do in AM.

That corrected model gets exported again, and gets the UV Layout / Stamp

refreshed, newly done. Then (if the seperate import of the UV would be possible)

you import that and use it with the AM modell.

Hope you understand that, its a bit complicated and after all, englisch is not my

mother language ...

Best regards

Heiner

[robcat2075]

Oh, that what you where talking about, No, thats not the issue.

It is about that you have in AM to "unfold" your model manualy.

There is very little tools to do that fast

 

It seems to me that in return for this one step being faster in Blender, every other part of the workflow is being made harder.

 

 

How many models do you need to model and texture in a year? If you had to do 300 models every year then you'd need a fast way to do this.

 

But if you do 4 or 5 models a year then the difference between between 5 minutes per model doing it the automatic way and... 30 minutes? an hour?... per model doing it in A:M doesn't add up to much extra time compared to all the other things you will be spending lots of time on anyway.

 

No?

[Heiner]

I see it just the other way around for several reasons.

Anyway, since currently there no way to get the UVs into AM, I will have to live without.

But for now thank you again for the help and the work around with the smartskins

Regards

Heiner

[detbear]

Heiner,

 

This is very possible unless you plan on changing the geometry after importing the model into A:M. For instance, when I import a model from DAZ and import that model directly into A:M as an .obj import(A:M's .obj import plugin converts the DAZ model into splines), the maps from DAZ are placed exactly where they were. Which is great. HOWEVER.....if you delete any of the imported mesh the UV maps are effected with no current way to "re-stamp" them.

 

But it is possible for A:M's .obj importer to convert the model to A:M splines and place the external UV's where they need to be. I would imagine that your problem is Blender's export.

 

Cheers,

 

William

[Heiner]

@ Wiliam,

 

I know already very well about the import possibilities om AM regarding the obj format.

What this was all about was the import of a UV layout out of a obj fomart file into a stamp

of a AM file, which was before a obj and got imported later.

The reson for such a thing you explained yourself: Modifying the imported model breaks the UVs (stamps).

Thats why I thought, that it would be cool, if you could just get the existing UV layout and make it

the new stamp layout.

Regards,

Heiner

[detbear]

Currently there is no way of doing this without performing the steps that you want to avoid....."Flattening" etc.

And rightly so....That's a rediculous amount of work when it could be avoided. But currently there is no cut and

dry method.

 

I hope that some more research & Development can be done to allow for this, but it takes a bunch of time and

work to program such features. I'm happy about the import/ export plugins because I use them all the time, but it is

on my wish list that in the future this and several other improvements can be made.

[Rodney]

Keep in mind that not all models work best with a flat/planar projection of a decal.

In many cases a cylindrical projection will be more than adequate.

I haven't had much use for spherical projection... outside of spherical shapes. (Go figure)

 

I don't like to flatten meshes (never have as this tends to pinch the decal worse than simply applying the image to the curved surface in the first place) and prefer to hide those areas that shouldn't be decaled first and then decal.

For such an approach it can help to organize your model via Groups for easy manipulation.

 

Most models will have natural locations for seams (such as anything that would have been manufactured).

These provide additional locations for layering in detail.

 

Automated decalers have their down side as well and most require manual adjustment as well.

At a guess I'd say many auto-unwraps are simply using a form of cylindrical projection.

Perhaps the more sophisticated of them automatically re-curse through user defined groups, hiding them before applying the (empty) decals to each section in turn.

 

In other news: Rumor control has it that v18 might bring some functionality that saves us a few steps in decaling.

Specifically that of applying an image (screencap) of the model back onto the model as a decal.

Sounds great to me!

[Heiner]

Hello there,

after a while of going back and forth, I now feel how i get warm again with AM and now I am pursuing the holy grail of optimizing my workflow.

Therfore I would like to ask, if there is a way to copy selected smartskins from one side to the other, without going trough the process of manualy

copying every keyframe in a smartskin mirrored over to the other side?

Best regards,

Heiner

[robcat2075]

Therfore I would like to ask, if there is a way to copy selected smartskins from one side to the other,

 

Instead of "Mirror All Smartskin"?

 

No, I don't think there is a way to mirror several, but not all Smartskins.

 

 

Here's a crazy idea.... Delete all the ones you don't want to mirror, then do Mirror Aall, then with a text editor, reinsert the ones you didn't want' mirrored from a previous version of the file.

 

I did say it was crazy.

[itsjustme]

Here's a crazy idea.... Delete all the ones you don't want to mirror, then do Mirror All, then with a text editor, reinsert the ones you didn't want' mirrored from a previous version of the file.

 

If you make a copy of your model, delete all Smartskins you don't want to mirror, "Mirror All Smartskins", save the model under a different name, open the original model, then drag and drop the new Smartskins on the original file...it should work.

[robcat2075]

If you make a copy of your model, delete all Smartskins you don't want to mirror, "Mirror All Smartskins", save the model under a different name, open the original model, then drag and drop the new Smartskins on the original file...it should work.

 

Very clever!

 

I keep forgetting how much drag and drop can do in A:M.

[Heiner]

Wow, thats a cool idea,

i will give that a try as soon as I get the time to work again on my character stuff!

Regards

Heiner