Logo Help!

[Mark3D]

Hello All,

 

I am trying to recreate the Denny's logo from their new commercials:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5qmBawyifg

 

Now I have completed the logo already but that is as far as I have gotten. What I am wondering is if anyone had tutorials on the different surface attributes I could apply to the logo to give it that "dull", low reflective look it has in the commercial. Almost like the 3d renders people do of white/grey models when their project is a WIP. Hopefully someone can understand what I am trying to say... haha. If not, I can try and clarify.

 

Thanks!

 

Here is the logo as of now....

[robcat2075]

Looks like you got the model put together well!

 

An Ambient occlusion render?

 

In the chor props turn "Global Ambience Type" to GLobal Color

 

Set the color to white and turn ambient occlusion up to 100%

 

Turn off all other lights in your scene.

 

In the render settings turn Ambient occlusion ON and set the percentage to whatever you can stand. Use small percentages for quick tests. High for less grain.

[largento]

Using Global Color is one step. The image in the commercial doesn't have black/gray shadows. It looks like the lighting is softer, too. You don't want such harsh shadows.

[Mark3D]

Thanks Guys! I am going to give it a go and see what happens, I'll be back soon with the results!

[Mark3D]

That took forever! haha. So this is the render with the settings you suggested. I like the look of it, closer to what I am going for. The only problem is the the inner part of the logo is too dark. Should I put a light on this as well or is there a way to lighten the picture through the Global Ambiance settings?

 

Thanks Again!

[HomeSlice]

If your Global Ambiance is already at 100%, I don't think you can adjust it any higher ... actually, I've never tried to set it higher than 100%.

You can add a sun light (turn shadows off on it) set to a low intensity to lighten it up. You'll need to futz with it to get the light intensity right.

[largento]

Set the Global Color to a warm yellow/orange. That should make the shadows orange instead of black. I wouldn't use AO myself. I'd set up some lights, so you can cast shadows within it.

[Mark3D]

Here is my latest render...

 

I like this one better than my last render but still isn't quite what I am looking for. I have since added some lights until I get the desired brightness but I can't get the inside yellow to be bright enough without blowing out the outside edge. If anyone thinks I am missing something then please let me know! I am looking for even lighting on this logo. I do however like the dull shadow like effect the Ambiance Global setting provides.

[NancyGormezano]

I'm not exactly sure what you are going for - but I rendered this with AI= 100%, AO = 100%, Occlusion sampling = 30% = default, no other lights, no ground plane, only 1 pass (you would do more). AND I set ambiant intensity for the surface of the model to 20% - you would have to play with these settings to get the color/intensity you want for the background, letters.

 

EDIT: the second image is with the surface ambiance = 50%

Edited June 14, 2010 by NancyGormezano

[Mark3D]

Nancy, you're amazing! Thanks for looking into this for me.

 

I like your first sample, I will try to mimic that one. The only problem I am having now is keeping the outer edge a darker yellow... I will just need to do some tweaking.

 

My other question is that it is taking about an hour for me to render these images... is this normal or should I be adjusting something?

 

Mark.

[NancyGormezano]

I like your first sample, I will try to mimic that one. The only problem I am having now is keeping the outer edge a darker yellow... I will just need to do some tweaking.

 

My other question is that it is taking about an hour for me to render these images... is this normal or should I be adjusting something?

 

Make the outer edge a different group - and tweak the surface ambiant property of that by itself. Isolate everything into groups - background, letters, etc and you can go nutso tweaking.

 

As for render time - I did a 640 x 480 - 1 pass - and it took less than 2 minutes.

 

How many passes are you doing? Do the minimum # (2-3?) just to get an approximation - then up the number of passes to get what you like. (I don't typically go beyond 5, maybe 9)

 

Make sure occlusion sampling is 30% (the default, in the occlusion settings for render). A higher number will make it take more time.

 

The Ambiant Occlusion (AO) setting (in chor) should still be set to 100%, however. A lower number will take less time, and will have less occlusion as well.

 

EDIT- and oh yeah - I just took a look at your render size - do a smaller resolution for testing - 1280 x 720 will take a long long time - try 640 x 360, or 320 x 180 for testing - much faster.

Edited June 14, 2010 by NancyGormezano

[Mark3D]

Thanks again Nancy,

 

I have the ambiance set to the default 30% in the render settings and at 100% in my chor. Also, my passes are set to one but maybe it is the fact that I have my resolution set to HD 720p.

 

I will take a screen grab because I must something selected by mistake.

[Darkwing]

I do believe someone once told me that doing more passes on an AO render makes it not take as long. I tried it once I think and I do believe it was right

[NancyGormezano]

I have the ambiance set to the default 30% in the render settings and at 100% in my chor. Also, my passes are set to one but maybe it is the fact that I have my resolution set to HD 720p.

 

Definitely for testing: render at smaller sizes - I just edited my previous post because I just noticed that you were rendering at 1280 x 720

[NancyGormezano]

I do believe someone once told me that doing more passes on an AO render makes it not take as long. I tried it once I think and I do believe it was right

 

YES you are right - in 15j+ there seems to be a change from previous versions where the processing gets distributed differently - it use to be that it did add more time - I'm doing a 5 pass now - and it looks like it will take approximately the same amount of time as a 1 pass - woo hooooo!

 

just done - 2 mins 8 secs - 5 pass

[largento]

I also took a couple of stabs... I used a yellow/orange global color (80%) and then a couple of lights. One orange rim up and behind on the right and a narrow yellow key below on the right. I did turn on AO, but I don't think it contributed very much.

 

 

I tried one with depth of field and a little bloom post effect...

 

 

[edit] I picked up the Denny's logo from "Brands of the World" and used the yellow and orange color values from that file (the outer frame is actually a different color than the interior.)

[Mark3D]

Wow! I really like the look of your logo!

 

I am going to ask a stupid question... how did you do the red text with a white border? I used an ugly decal that isn't lined up properly but your looks great! What is your secret?

 

Another question is how did you pick colour values? I used a small decal and tiled my outside rim and inside yellow base. I searched all throughout the surface attribute but couldn't find a place to insert your own RGB values.

 

Thanks again everyone for your help, I will post my final here in a few minutes.

[Mark3D]

So this is what I am going to settle with... I think it look alright but I need more experience with rendering before I come back to it.

 

So this one VGA frame took over 20 minutes to render, could someone let me know if I have something selected on my settings that I shouldn't? I assume that this is a fairly basic model...

[Mark3D]

The reason I ask about the rendering time is because I want to animated this and even a few seconds of video would take over a day to render at this speed. Not mention when I render it in HD... maybe it is just my machine? Macbook Core2Duo 2ghz with 4gb of ram.

[NancyGormezano]

maybe it is just my machine? Macbook Core2Duo 2ghz with 4gb of ram.

 

Nothing wrong with those settings. Looks good.

 

I use: PC win xp pro - core2duo 3.2ghz with 4 gb ram - A:M 15j+

 

I've never used a Mac - I believe those with Macs do have slower render times. But that seems excessively slow. 2 mins versus 20? especially for such a simple model. If your scene also has other elements - it will only get worse.

 

I believe others report faster renders if they run A:M using a windows OS on the mac. Then they go on to mumbo jumbo something about bootcamp, parallels, tiger, leopard, Himalayan spotted Lynx...Also seems related to mac OS, and which version. Someone more knowledgeable will chime in, I'm sure...

 

If you can't get more reasonable render times for yourself using AO - then you may have to resort to a scheme with z buffered shadows, and/or other trickery.

 

EDIT: here is where to input RGB values - either expand diffuse color, use sliders - or click on color square and input values directly in dialog box

Edited June 14, 2010 by NancyGormezano

[Darkwing]

The reason I ask about the rendering time is because I want to animated this and even a few seconds of video would take over a day to render at this speed. Not mention when I render it in HD... maybe it is just my machine? Macbook Core2Duo 2ghz with 4gb of ram.

 

 

Wow, my mac isn't as fast as that and it renders faster than what you're saying. But what Nancy says about Mac rendering slower is both true and not true. I've noticed that things like basic procedurals and materials render considerably slower on a mac, however, effects like Particles, Lens Flares etc render considerably faster than windows do. I've had a shot that had an intense particle effect, would take almost 2 minutes to render on windows, about 10 seconds on a mac. It was crazy.

[Mark3D]

So this is the final I think I am going to go with... still took 30 minutes to render which I'm not too happy about but I will have to deal with that later when I animate it. Thanks to everyone for help.

 

More questions to come later...

[robcat2075]

So this is the final I think I am going to go with... still took 30 minutes to render which I'm not too happy about but I will have to deal with that later when I animate it. Thanks to everyone for help.

 

More questions to come later...

 

 

ya know.... if you just need that look on the back surface.... you could air brush a decal in Photoshop to look like that. Or you could do an orthogonal (non perspective) render of that view you got there and apply that to the back patches.

 

And not have to render with AO after that.

[largento]

Wow! I really like the look of your logo!

 

I am going to ask a stupid question... how did you do the red text with a white border? I used an ugly decal that isn't lined up properly but your looks great! What is your secret?

 

Thanks, Mark3D. To me it looks like the letters are just floating slightly above the Denny's logo. I created the white outline as a shape in Adobe Illustrator and brought that in with the AI plugin. Same way I brought in the red type. I then positioned them to make them work. The red type has sides, but the white is just flat. It's positioned so that the red type breaks through.

[Mark3D]

So AO isn't the right way to render then? Below is a shaded clip of the animation I want to render and the image below is a screen grab of the final render I am trying to perform now... Should I just abort this and try to figure out what is going on or is this normal?

denny.mov

[jimd]

yes i think you should rethink your lighting and ditch AO

that render time is way to high

[HomeSlice]

Rendering with AO will always look better IMO, but for any kind of animation, it will take forever. One idea that will render faster and will look pretty good is to render a single frame with AO. Then apply that render to your model as a Decal. Change the Decal Type to "Diffuse" and adjust the percentage to suit you. Diffuse tpe decals will not show up in real time display, but they will show up in a quick preview render.

[robcat2075]

Below is a shaded clip of the animation I want to render and the image below is a screen grab of the final render I am trying to perform now...

 

If it's just the model in a completely white environment like that I would absolutely make a decal that looks like AO shading for the interior (the only place AO will be evident) and slap it on there.

 

It's good enough for big Hollywood studios. It will work for you.

[Mark3D]

Thanks guys, I'll try that. Just one more thing before I try the single frame AO... is there a way to render JUST the logo and not the white background that I applied. Like am I able to render the logo and have an alpha channel behind it? Is this possible and will it help with render time? Even the first frame on animation with a completely white background and no logo took over 40 minutes...

[HomeSlice]

you can render with an alpha channel, but I don't think it will speed up your render any. In the camera properties (under the container in the PWS), go to Output Options > Buffers and turn Alpha to ON. Make sure you render to an image format that supports alpha channels, like TGA.

Even for AO, a render time of 40 minutes for that model sounds really excessive. What resolution are you rendering to? How many passes? Usually, 5-9 passes will be plenty for this kind of animation.

[robcat2075]

The background isn't your problem. It's the AO.

[Mark3D]

I am using 1 to 5 passes they seem to have comparable render times. I will just make a decal and see if this solves my problem.

[NancyGormezano]

I will just make a decal and see if this solves my problem.

 

Trust us - it will!

 

Make sure after you have the decal on your model - that you render with AO = 0.

[robcat2075]

AO is an "expensive" procedure because every point on the screen has to figure out how much light is hitting it from every possible direction. That's why there's so much frenzy about ways to fake the AO look without all that calculating.

[pixelplucker]

Do you really need AO? One thing I do is when ever possible I hand create the lettering rather than try to clean up imported ai files or use the font wizzard. I find that because many of the vectors have double points in most of the ttf fonts that they create more problems and bad faces. This is a problem with many other programs and not AM specific.

 

This is a rough render on my logo (far from finished) and the render time on this was only 1:31

 

You may want to defrag your hard drive and turn off any background programs, widgets and utilities that are not needed and this should help a ton.

[Mark3D]

Thanks again everyone!

 

Sweet KR logo, I will try mine with those render settings.