Cleaning,optimazing

[maddle]

This where i came until today on my model adaptation from LW.To be honest I m a bit disappointed about how things came.Splines modeling need serious preparation and planning to have honorable result.I m not a good modeler, but spline are the most difficult because you need to control a lot of parameters bias,magnitude?alphas,Gammas, tension !! what s this !! i ve posted the Wip for everybody have a look.If any one (the pros ! Rob,Fuchur,Eric Largento;, ect) have an idea to optimize it or to give us a " DECREASE the CREASE" Technique, we will be happy !

 

Regards

 

patch_apple_opti.mdl

 

[robcat2075]

It's hard to make a video about this because the screencam compression tends to cover up the crease you're trying to fix so you can't tell the difference between fixed and not fixed.

 

Most of your splineage is good. Some parts of it could still be simplified.

 

There are some spots where you dead ended a spline into the side of a four point patch. That's always bad.

 

 

But the other "creases" are almost always fixed with a gamma adjustment. I like to select a CP that's on a crease, then (T)urn the model so the crease is really obvious, then LMB and slide on the gamma property in the property window to adjust the gamma until it looks smooth.

[robcat2075]

Here's a vid showing the workflow but, like I say, the screencam compression makes it hard to see the creases in the first place.

 

SmoothingCreasesMP4.mov

[maddle]

Here's a vid showing the workflow but, like I say, the screencam compression makes it hard to see the creases in the first place.

 

SmoothingCreasesMP4.mov

 

thank you Rob , it s very kind from you to have make this video.The eye is from LW just as a guide.

 

Thank you Again Rob.

[robcat2075]

I'll admit there are people like Jim Talbot and Will Sutton who seem to be able to make faces that are smooth without much bias adjustment at all.

 

But I don't know how they do it.

[largento]

I'm not putting myself on Jim & Will's level, but I don't ever use the bias controls in modeling. I keep them turned off (except when animating to use in the spline editor.)

[robcat2075]

I'm not putting myself on Jim & Will's level, but I don't ever use the bias controls in modeling. I keep them turned off (except when animating to use in the spline editor.)

 

Putting aside the obvious splining errors, can you go thru his mesh and show how to smooth it without bias editing?

[NancyGormezano]

try the porcelaine material? (the lazy people way)

 

edit:bad idea - not included with 15, and produces anomalies sometimes

[largento]

Not when the biases have already been adjusted in the modeling process. They've already been "corrupted" and will no longer act like virgin splines.

 

The tips I can offer are:

 

1) Try to keep even spacing between splines. Splines too close to other splines, cause ridges. good when you want ridges (I do this to give an "edge" to the lips of my characters), but not good when you want smooth.

 

2) Make adjustments using the constraining keys. This is a biggee. As much as possible, keep your splines on even planes to begin with.

 

3) Don't forget to look at your splines from above and below. When I began modeling, I tended to just look at the front and side view, but be aware that your curves should be curved when looking from above and below, too.

 

4) Only use as many splines as you need, but not any more than you need (less dense, less opportunities for hiccups)

 

5) Try to put your hooks in places where the skin of the character isn't going to move substantially (like the temples or the cranium).

[Shelton]

I dont use the bias adjustments as well. I simply tweak the splines to get the smooth look.

 

Steve

[robcat2075]

Not when the biases have already been adjusted in the modeling process. They've already been "corrupted" and will no longer act like virgin splines.

 

Really? A spline set to the default 0 is different than a spline with the default 0? Can you show a case of that?

[Eric2575]

When I started modeling in AM and found bias tweaking, I thought I had found the holy grail, but...Now that I am a bit more experienced, I find that I will use bias tweaks very rarely. Once you learn how splines behave and how they flow, you will learn how to get smooth models.

 

I just downloaded your model to take a peek, but won't be able to respond till later on tonight - gotta run. By that time, I'm sure someone else will have helped

[largento]

Not when the biases have already been adjusted in the modeling process. They've already been "corrupted" and will no longer act like virgin splines.

 

Really? A spline set to the default 0 is different than a spline with the default 0? Can you show a case of that?

 

A spline with default bias settings has not had it's biases adjusted.

 

However, if the biases have been adjusted, then the spline will not behave the same way:

 

In this example:

 

1) spline with no bias adjustment

 

2) spline with center CP's bias adjusted

 

3) spline with no bias adjustment and moved center CP

 

4) spline with bias adjustment and moved center CP

 

[robcat2075]

4) spline with bias adjustment and moved center CP

 

but that's not a spline set back to 0.

 

Can you show a case where a spline set to 0 is any different than a spline with the default 0?

[largento]

Why would there be a difference?

[NancyGormezano]

Why would there be a difference?

 

heh heh...I think you misunderstood Robcat - and he misunderstood you (i.e. - It seems to me you both seem to agree)

 

AND coincidently - in the process of finally getting around to installing 15g - I was just downloading the 15g versions of Steffans plug-ins (an absolutely amazingly helpful collection) - I came across the "smooth" plug-in - I haven't tried it - but it looks like it might be very useful in the decreasing creases quest.

[robcat2075]

Why would there be a difference?

 

I don't think there is but you said there was.

 

 

I asked if you could show how to smooth Maddle's'model and you said it couldn't be done because...

 

Not when the biases have already been adjusted in the modeling process. They've already been "corrupted" and will no longer act like virgin splines.

 

 

What's to stop anyone from just setting them back to zero.? You group the whole mesh, type in 0 for the bias.

 

What am i missing?

[largento]

Yes, and I said I didn't know how to do it because I never mess with biases.

 

If I were to painstakingly go back through each CP and reset every bias handle... (I tried selecting the whole thing and mass changing them, but when I clicked on individual CPs, I still found they had varying settings) it would change the shape of the model and very likely the specific crease you wanted to smooth out would no longer be a crease. Too many things would have changed.

 

I then gave the instructions of how I deal with making models smooth without using biases.

[robcat2075]

I selected the whole mesh, set them to a number not zero, then set them to 0. They all seem to be zero.

 

patch_apple_AllZero.mdl

[largento]

I guess you're just wanting to visually see what I mean by the tips I outlined?

 

Here's a section at the bottom of the face, I just concentrated on the chin and the area directly below that:

 

 

 

And here it is after making some modifications. To really see the benefits, these sort of modifications would need to be made along the entire length of the spline, since every curve has an effect on every other curve.

 

 

Again, the idea is to try to even out the spacing between the splines. Using a low angle allowed me to see the curves in a way that I couldn't see them from the front or side. I used modifier keys to limit my movements. Mostly a combo of 1 and 3, so that my adjustments did not move them in the y axis. (Those adjustments, I would make in a front view.) This isn't my model, so I don't know what shape the final should be, I'm just doing it the way I would do it. The other two points I made (use only as many splines as you need to and position your hooks in places where there isn't much movement don't apply here, but I think they are self explanatory.)

 

I don't view modeling as a science and I just feel my way around a model. I also am not one to say that there is only one way to do anything (I don't even follow that dictum in my own work).

 

As such, I don't think I'd make a very good teacher. These suggestions mostly come from Barry Zundel's excellent tutorials (available at Lulu, do a search for them) and he does a way better job of explaining them than I could. :-)

 

I cannot recommend them enough!

[robcat2075]

Here's an all-zero bias version where I did some resplining and then some of Largento's technique (character's right side only)

 

patch_apple_RightSmoothed.mdl

 

Briefly I picked a CP on a crease, held down the 4 key (to slide the CP tangent to the surface) and slid the CP back or forth until the crease seemed to go away, then I did that to the next CP on that crease. And so on...

 

Mostly i did this on the cheeks and forehead and a bit on the nose. It's not finished but it's better.

 

But I don't' think I could do that to solve the creases around the corners of the mouth without moving the CPs so much that the intended shape was gone. I think you'd have to use bias there.