steve392 Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 This is a model Im working on with the light rig ,still got some smart skinning to do but I think its nearly there.The rig works well .I will try particle hair aswell soon w.test_2.mov Quote
steve392 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Thank's Mr Spleen ,heres a shot of the hair test ,this is my first test ,colours a bit to bright I think Quote
rusty Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Thank's Mr Spleen ,heres a shot of the hair test ,this is my first test ,colours a bit to bright I think Steve, Can I ask which AM version you are using? Also, is the hair jumping around at all when you animate it? Thanks, Rusty Quote
phatso Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 There's a funny bump in the skirt at one point that damages the realism. And I wouldn't want to damage the realism of that particular model. Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 12, 2009 Hash Fellow Posted January 12, 2009 good-lookin model! I'll be interested to see how the hair performs. Quote
steve392 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Yea Rusty it is jumping around v15 e but I wanted it to move but it moves to much at the front .I will have to use differant settings on that I think.I will have to go for it now anyway as I overwrit the model after deleating the hair model ,like a twerp.I didn't see the dress problem ,will fix it ,its in the smartskinn.I think the particle hair is much better than the last time I played with it ,a long time ago now it seems.Thank's for your feedback edit btw Im doing it now with a scull cap for the hair matt wiyh another cap for a displacemant decal just under the hair matt and its not looking bad Quote
steve392 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Done some more and got this ,needs some more vigerous tests ,head shake or something but its looking promising anyone know what the target constraint thing is for in the dynamic options ? hair_test_3.mov Quote
steve392 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 It seems ok on the movement now .I made the front a seperate group and had no dynamics on it hair_test_4.mov Quote
rusty Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Steve, Its looking good. Yes I also use a skull cap for the hair -- you can control the patch sizes (which controls the overall density) and you can avoid hooks and 3 and 5 pt patches as well as control the hair line better. You can also use the skull cap on other models. I've found a way to separate the hair do from the hair color but I hit insurmountable problems with the hair jumping around on most of my characters when animated (even if the head itself is not animated!). I wish you could do a close up of just the head and hair and just rotate the camera around the head (no head movement) and then shake and nod the head with the camera still. I suspect some hair jumping is do to the hair trying to always face the camera. WHAT DID THE TWO PEOPLE DO!!! THEY USED HAIR DIDN'T THEY! Its a problem I'm coming up on and I'm concerned however, my main character has hair and for some reason it does not jump around... need to figure that one out (or use his hair on every character LOL). BTW I'm still on V14... I know what works well and what is... temperamental. V15 is a complete unknown. A recent post indicated that V15 was as stable as 'a pencil'. I'd go to my knees and kiss the ground if that were true (and I'd update in a heart beat). Keep up the good work! Rusty Quote
steve392 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Posted January 13, 2009 Rusty ,you should try v15 I think its better for hair for some reason .I will do the render in the morning , oh it is morning 04.03 to be precise ,lol goodnight Quote
John Bigboote Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Steve, BTW I'm still on V14... I know what works well and what is... temperamental. V15 is a complete unknown. A recent post indicated that V15 was as stable as 'a pencil'. I'd go to my knees and kiss the ground if that were true (and I'd update in a heart beat). Rusty---and anyone ELSE working in A:M with HAIR... YOU HAVE TO HAVE V15...period. You are simply wasting your time and energy with 14 and below. There have been some significant improvements...chiefly amongst them is the new 'BAKE' feature. I have been pounding my head on the Hair feature since it's initial rewrite in V11, trying-trying-trying to get LONG female hair (or hippy, for you hippies) to NOT pass thru the body once the animation dictates... and FINALLY I am getting results that live-up to my high standards.... I am going for that 'shampoo commercial' type of flowing, bounding, blowing beautiful long hair that STOPS when it hits a shoulder or other mass. I hope to post some results soon, as well as a 'paper' of my findings---what works and what does not, and what does what. I'm sure other people have been working in a parellel direction, but not much has been posted. Quote
HomeSlice Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Matt, when you post that paper on getting long flowing hair to work, I will praise you for the hair god you are. Quote
steve392 Posted January 13, 2009 Author Posted January 13, 2009 Heres the first one Rusty ,model still ,camera moving and the second ,hope this is what you wanted .Theres a lot of settings to play with so this could be much improved cam_spin.mov model_shake.mov Quote
rusty Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 All, I do not have time right now for a proper reply but... Steve: I wanted to say thank you for running these revealing tests! After looking at them I have to ask you exactly what is better about V15 hair? Even if correct I'm in the middle of a very large project and therefore must worry about much more than hair. I must worry about the overall stability and fuctionality and backward/forward compatability of any new version I switch to mid-project. I almost did not install PS CS3 Extended due to this and even then kept PS CS2 installed just in case. Ah but there's even more... to complete this project I must have NetRender and though I understand that one might be able to obtain NR V15 once again there's the worry about functionality but even more, the level of free support Hash could afford to give a discontinued product with probably zero future ROI potential. John: So far I see nothing that indicates V15 is any better at doing hair (plus see above). I must say with all sincerity that this makes me very sad as I have used and updated early each year since 2001. Even more I've based my studio, work flow and resource base entirely on AM. Giving it thought, I guess that the pivotal question is... can I run a single subscription of V15 (and versions beyond) on multiple PCs therefore mimicking NetRender? The prospect that V14 may be the version of AM I am stuck on is dismal. In any event, I await your hair examples with bated breath! Rusty Quote
rusty Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Steve, et al - Your tests seem to support the theory that at least some of the hair jumping is due to the hair always attempting to face the camera. There may be a setting to turn this off although I'm not sure what this might result in. Rusty Quote
steve392 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Posted January 17, 2009 There is settings for ,face the camera shown in the image ,I changed them a bit for this test hairtest3.mov Quote
John Bigboote Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 There is a 'bow' setting, for the roundness of the hair... but it disappears once you activate Muhair. Quote
steve392 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Posted January 17, 2009 Muhair ? whats that the John I didn't see it Quote
John Bigboote Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Muhair ? whats that the John I didn't see it Oh, SORRY! I thought you were using it... well, you GOTTA try it, you will LOVE it. GO under the hair material to the actual emitter(s) properties. Open the 'SURFACE' dialogue...way at the bottom you will se the settings for 'DIFFUSE RENDER SHADER' and 'SPECULAR RENDER SHADER', simply set both to 'MUHAIR'. Now to get muhair to show-up upon rendering you will need to always remember to turn ON the 'PLUGIN SHADERS' in your render dialogue(Last option at the very bottom). Now, try a test render to see the difference. There 'should' be a radiant pantene (shimmer)added to the hair that makes the hair look a LOT more realistic...almost like a shampoo commercial. If it is TOO MUCH you will discover both muhairs have a full range of settings you can tweek if you click open the arrow (more settings for the specular than the diffuse.) I've been hinting for days now that I plan to write a 'paper' with many of my findings after years of research (tinkering) with previous versions of A:M since V11 had the 'new' hair feature. FINALLY, in V15E, I have found what I have been looking for... COLLISION DETECTION THAT ACTUALLY WORKS, and I am presently being blown away by how well it actually does work. By next week, I should have something to present regarding my methods, the use of forces, dams, settings, gravity, and more. Until then, I will give you a 'teaser', and introduce my muse and specimen for my testings...meet BUNNY. (image attached, body courtesy of Serg2 who gratiously contributed his 'low-res woman' to the forum- Thanks SERG! Great work!) This is a QUICK test render in the default chor WITHOUT the benefit of a hair 'BAKE' which helps the collision-detection immensely.(4 passes 3:15) Quote
steve392 Posted January 17, 2009 Author Posted January 17, 2009 Thank's John will try that out ,yea that colision detection work's very well .Thats a super looking image I can see that the Muhair helps a lot .Looking forward to your tut/findings Quote
rusty Posted January 17, 2009 Posted January 17, 2009 Yes John! So am I! I've already put out a lot of info on how I've separated 'hair dos' and 'hair color' and made both 'snap on' items that can be mixed and matched on any of my models. But I've not played around much with mu-hair and all the settings. Cheers, Rusty Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted January 17, 2009 Hash Fellow Posted January 17, 2009 in V15E, I have found what I have been looking for... COLLISION DETECTION THAT ACTUALLY WORKS, and I am presently being blown away by how well it actually does work. By next week, I should have something to present regarding my methods, the use of forces, dams, settings, gravity, and more. Eager to hear your discoveries! Quote
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