Move pivot in Choreography?

[Kelley]

In the last week I've been finalizing the Sentinel's posture sitting in the saddle. He carries a rifle across his lap. As Beast rolls/waddles to the left, he compensates by leaning slightly to the right. The problem has been keeping his hands on the rifle while making sure it doesn't penetrate his legs or the computer screen in front of him. I got it smoothed out, but am I correct in thinking that in the Choreography you cannot move the pivot? It would have made life much easier.

[NancyGormezano]

If you apply translate to and orient like constraints from a bone in the hand to a bone (or null) in the rifle (the target) - then you can move the bone (null) in the target and effectively move the pivot.

 

I think? that's what you're asking? but not sure.

[robcat2075]

YOur description is a bit hazy. If you show a movie of it going wrong it will be easy to see.

[Kelley]

It's a lot simpler than my explanation. When I try to rotate the rifle in the Choreography, the Rotater 'Rings' centered on the Model Bone which was halfway up the barrel. I wanted them centered on the trigger. In the Modeling Window, it's a simple matter of putting the cursor directly over the center of the Rotation Tool and dragging it to where you want it. This doesn't seem to happen in the Chor. So I just moved the model [in the Modeling Window] until the trigger was over the 0,0,0 position. [not quite there in the pic., but since fine-tuned]. While that solved the immediate problem, I wondered, if the pivot is so easily movable in the Modeling, why not in the Choreo.?

[Fuchur]

It's a lot simpler than my explanation. When I try to rotate the rifle in the Choreography, the Rotater 'Rings' centered on the Model Bone which was halfway up the barrel. I wanted them centered on the trigger. In the Modeling Window, it's a simple matter of putting the cursor directly over the center of the Rotation Tool and dragging it to where you want it. This doesn't seem to happen in the Chor. So I just moved the model [in the Modeling Window] until the trigger was over the 0,0,0 position. [not quite there in the pic., but since fine-tuned]. While that solved the immediate problem, I wondered, if the pivot is so easily movable in the Modeling, why not in the Choreo.?

 

Dont think that that is possible, but you can assign the riffle to a bone. (a new created one, not the model-bone)

Now you can move the model with this new custom bone. The pivot of the model will stay at the same place, but by moving the bones you can do the same.

Not that easy like just moving the pivot but should work too.

 

*Fuchur*

[Kelley]

...but you can assign the riffle to a bone. (a new created one, not the model-bone)

I translated the Model Bone in the rifle to the Wrist Bone in the right hand. It worked well, but when I got the Sentinel rocking in the saddle to compensate for Beast, his hands kept drifting away. So I laid the rifle across his lap and translated it to his Right Upper Leg Bone and Oriented Like the Root Bone [spine] in Beast. Had that not worked my next plan was to Translate a Null to the Hand, and the rifle to that.

 

Thanks all, for your help.

 

Edit:..or were you referring to the main Model Bone?

[Fuchur]

Edit:..or were you referring to the main Model Bone?

 

Exactly... The model bone is the black one which is already available in the model-window before you add one by yourself (can be seen by clicking in bonesmode anywhere into the model-window.)

 

I made a bunch of possibilities to fake another pivot-points.

Have a look at the Animation and the setup of the model-files in this project.

 

You got more freedom in Chor 1 (by assigning the whole model to a new bone and animated this bone and the model-bone itself in the chor) and you got more precise, controlable behaviour in chor 2, where I only use bones with a hierachy to do the same. The second possibility however is only useful if you know exactly where the pivot should be and there is a limited amount of pivots you will need.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

three_different_pivots.zip

[Gerry]

My understanding of the model bone is that it's a default bone for any model that you won't be rigging or creating a skeleton for. But adding bones gives you more control, and once you do you can safely ignore the model bone, it just becomes redundant.

[Fuchur]

My understanding of the model bone is that it's a default bone for any model that you won't be rigging or creating a skeleton for. But adding bones gives you more control, and once you do you can safely ignore the model bone, it just becomes redundant.

 

Not totally... first of: Scaling the model-bone will scale everything else without having to press the CTRL-button and of course the pivot to scale and rotate is still defined by it, although you can use it for that.

 

The bad thing about using only the other bones without the modelbone is, that models will be harder to select. You can see why if you move the bones of a model far away while you leave the model-bone where it is.

The model-box will scale up and other models which are now in it cant be selected.

 

On the other hand it is easier to move custom bones only because you dont have to handle an additional hierachy-level.

 

*Fuchur*

[Gerry]

But you can scale just by selecting the model, right? And the model bone isn't in the PWS*, so what's the advantage of selecting the model bone as opposed to the model itself?

 

*at least I think that's right. It's one of those things I never think about!

[robcat2075]

And the model bone isn't in the PWS*

 

It appears in the PWS as "Model Bone"

 

But after following this thread I'm still not exactly sure what someone was not able to do and why they weren't able to do it.

[Kelley]

But after following this thread I'm still not exactly sure what someone was not able to do and why they weren't able to do it.

It did tend to wander a bit. Basically, in the Choreography, I wanted the rifle lying across the Sentinels's lap to rotate at the trigger. The Rotate Tool appears over the Model Bone, which is halfway up the barrel. [there are no other bones] I kept searching [with the cursor] for a 'sweet spot' that would allow me to drag the pivot over the trigger. Like in the Modeling window. In the end, I just moved the model [in the Modeling window] until the trigger was at the 0,0,0, checked in Bones Mode, and the Model Bone was where I needed it.

[Gerry]

And the model bone isn't in the PWS*

 

Here's a screen shot of the PWS showing the bones for a model and for the model shortcut in a chor. There's no "Model Bone" in either bones list and when I select the model bone in skeletal mode what is selected in the PWS is "Shortcut to Model 1".

 

EDIT- this is on my mac, I'm on vacation this week so can't check it on the pc side.

 

SECOND EDIT - So Kelley, why not just add a bone where you want the constraint to be? Adjusting the model's position could cause you problems later on, say if you want him holding the gun by the barrel, etc.

[Kelley]

So Kelley, why not just add a bone where you want the constraint to be?

First, because the main question was: can you move the pivot in the Choreography, or not? Turns out you can't. So be it.

 

What I needed was for the right hand to be lying across the trigger area, and the left hand draped over the muzzle. As the Sentinel rolls in the saddle to counter the roll of Beast, the left hand kept drifting off the gun. Rotating it from the Model Bone in the barrel meant that I had to adjust for two hands every time. My next plan was to put a Null in the muzzle area, Translate it to the Model Bone, and Translate the Left Wrist Bone to the Null.

[robcat2075]

Here's a screen shot of the PWS showing the bones for a model and for the model shortcut in a chor. There's no "Model Bone" in either bones list and when I select the model bone in skeletal mode what is selected in the PWS is "Shortcut to Model 1".

 

"show more than drivers" is on which is showing you a second bone list as if you were rigging the model and assigning properties to the bones. The bones you normally animate and key frame are under "Actions" including the model bone.

This can't be a PC only thing?

[heyvern]

No, not just a "PC" thing. I've found I can select the "model bone" even when in the skeletal posing mode in a chor. The model bone can be selected. However selecting the model bone in that way still is selecting the "model bone" the way it is in the pws chor action.

 

Now that I think about it, not being able to change the rotation point of a model in the chor is kind of sort of a lack. Alas a lack! There are ways around it but nothing that is really really really easy like moving the rotation point in the chor.

 

-vern

[robcat2075]

ok, so you people are trying to change the location within the model of the model bone... during the chor? No, I don't think that can be done. You can only move the model bone in the model window and that isn't editable from within the chor.

 

However, (and maybe this had been mentioned above already, i'm not sure) all you need to do for the same effect is add a null to the chor, place it at the place you wanted the model bone to originate from and then translate and orient constrain the model bone to that null. New pivot point! Animate with the null instead of the model bone.

 

Bonus: you can vary the location of the model relative to the null for different situations.

 

For example: model bone pivots near tip of gun, then Null pivots near the trigger, but say later in the shot the rifle gets dropped, and lands on the butt before falling to the ground. Move the null pivot to the end of the rifle butt and it is easy to animate the rifle falling over with the butt staying where it landed.

 

riflepivot.mov

 

riflePivot02.zip

[Kelley]

ok, so you people are trying to change the location within the model of the model bone... during the chor?

Almost. The hope was that the pivot could be moved and the Model Bone stay where it was. Like in the Modeling Window, the pivot can move, but the CP's stay put. Sliding the model forward in the Model Window to get the Model Bone aligned with the trigger was just a work around.

 

Pretty slick: Translating the Model Bone to a Null. I would not have thought that was possible...rather like telling your abdomen that it is now the child of your elbow.

[robcat2075]

Pretty slick: Translating the Model Bone to a Null. I would not have thought that was possible...

You can always translate A to B as long as B is not a child of A

 

 

 

 

 

rather like telling your abdomen that it is now the child of your elbow.

depending on your rig that would probably not work since the elbow is probably a child of the abdomen.

[heyvern]

Robcat that worked GREAT! That's the solution I was trying to work out in my head. Theoretically you could have the object turn end over end changing the pivot.

 

-vern