Political cartoon

[heyvern]

Crappy quality. Low res WIP. Did it FAST!

 

Comments... rants... raves... welcome. I can take it... I think.

I am not an impersonator. That is the best John McCain I can do. And Cindy sounds like an wealthy chipmunk on heroin.

 

themccains.wmv

 

-vern

[NancyGormezano]

OOOO....Brilliant as usual Vern

 

I must say the arcs, the arcs! I've never seen such beautifully done arcs, so sublimely and perfectly done.

 

The camera work was amazing - the anticipation, up the kazoo - magnificent holds, sophisticated, expert follow thru, with gobs and gobs of overlapping action.

 

And need I mention the walk cycles? You need to patent? trademark? copyright? those walk cycles.

 

There is one thing that I didn't quite get, and most likely because I am naive in the ways of symbolism, as I was a repressed math major, and thus sadly have no aptitude in that airy-fairy-grey-area-up-for-interpretation stuff - BUT just what was the meaning of those mysterious markings in the lower left hand corner. I could make out an "X", and I think there was a "Y", but the other symbol escapes me...Are you perhaps a scientologist? Oh wait ...I just got it...It's Tom Cruise's phone number coded in holographic Froot Loops. I'll have to go get my stereoscopic goggles.

 

I repeat - BRILLIANT.

 

ps. who is this McCain fellow?

[robcat2075]

Not cringingly and vomitously awful.

 

Youtube it.

 

And that's a pretty good McCain.

[Bruce Del Porte]

Bravo!

Your cartoon clearly addresses the health care reform and alternative energy issues that you so politely pointed out my cartoon lacked. One suggestion for the next pass, and I hesitate to mess with a masterpiece, when McCain goes to check his tire pressure, perhaps going to a close up of the reading?? The poignancy of this cartoon showing Obama's heroic solution to our dependence on foreign oil, well... you are spot on sir, how could McCain help but become a Obamacan? And to think, I thought you were just another "All Hate, All the Time" liberal crackpot. I humbly apologize for my thought crime.

[Jeetman]

when McCain goes to check his tire pressure, perhaps going to a close up of the reading?? The poignancy of this cartoon showing Obama's heroic solution to our dependence on foreign oil

 

This is a great come back!!!!

 

 

From what I can see of the animation, it's pretty good but the resolution makes it hard to tell.

 

I think the dialogue is kinda funny. I don't see the big deal about McCain not knowing how many houses he owns actually. He married a very rich woman. I'm betting his wife's the one who probably purchased them but I could be wrong.

 

I see the animation portraying McCain as a doddering absent minded old guy. If this was the intention, it's spot on.

 

I sent an email to Bruce to see if he'd let me get a copy of his Obama model. I want to counter this animation with one about Obama. I promise it will not be bad and it will be quick (I do have SO animation to finish too).

 

George

[heyvern]

Nancy, the sign says "The McCain's (1 of 10)".

 

I wanted to animate actual people inside the house but I'm not ready to waste my precious time on it . My goal was sort of a tribute to Gary Trudeau when he shows the outside of the white house and Bush talking to his advisor's. This would probably work better as a comic strip than an animation. The audio was inspired by Harry Shearer's show on NPR.

 

p.s. For a short while I was thinking of doing a portrait of McCain as president and enter it in the Science Fiction image contest but.... ONE, I didn't have time, TWO, I couldn't bare the thought of looking at him that much. If I spent that much time looking at John McCain's image I might get brain washed. The vibes of evil energy would corrupt my system like Arnold when the Terminatrix infected him with nanotechnologicialtransjectors.

 

-vern

[jzawacki]

I find both content equally lame.. You could have at least had him having a heart attack or something on the way to the car to make it a little more realistic..

 

But, for quality of animation.. I'd have to go with the other one..

[heyvern]

You are too kind. As Nancy so eloquently pointed out there is no "animation" to speak of. It is worse than the "other one" in that regard. Quite below my standards on any scale.

 

I had another idea but it's really too late (and too much work) to pull off:

 

Barack approaches the podium to announce his running mate.

 

"Ladies and gentlemen, today I announce my choice for vice president. I give you THE TERMINATOR!"

 

Large T800 shakes hands with Obama and approaches the podium. The cheering crowd grows silent in anticipation. The camera pulls in on the Terminator as he prepares to speak.

 

"Come with me now if you want to live."

 

The crowd erupts in cheering and applause. Crane shot pulls forward over crowd towards the podium. Signs and banners appear "Obama Terminator '08. Come with us if you want to live" waving above their heads. The camera moves to the right of the stage with McCain at the republican podium.

 

"I too am proud to announce my choice for republican vice presidential candidate. Ladies and gentleman I present to you LOCUTUS OF BORG!"

 

The crowd grows silent as a large bald borg approaches the podium and says in a British accent,

 

"I am Locutus of Borg. Resistance is futile. You WILL be ASSIMILATED!"

 

Huge cheers from the crowd, camera pans over as signs and banners are raised declaring "Resistance is futile! McCain Locutus '08"

 

I don't have a finale for this one. I also realized the apparent irony of the Terminator as a democratic vice presidential nominee.

 

-vern

[NancyGormezano]

Here's what I really think of your animation/video:

 

I think the dialog/script is quite good, funny. I think your McCain voice, acting was very good, and the same with your Cindy voice - very impressive. Music was perfect for the situation and was used well, ie. inserted at the right spots, with the right empathsis.

 

The little animation that was there (camera moves) actually detracted (IMO) from the good script and acting, except for the ending where he walks out. You could probably skip the pulling back from the house in the beginning and just have a static image of the house as the dialog is heard - until he walks out. Then pull back to show some kind of comical arrangement of houses, cars, servants? scene - as it stands now - the design, style of the houses doesn't add comedy.

 

I thought the walking part was funny - I don't care if the walk cycle is stylistic, or rough - it adds to the comedy. The way I perceived the walking, was that he went to the wrong side of the car in a senior moment and then realized he needed to drive from the other side. If that was your gag - it worked - If there were other gags - ie with the number of cars - it wasn't clear if those were cars that McCain had, or what the joke was that you intended.

 

I don't have a problem with it being a South Park style of animation. As it stands now, it seems more of a radio piece - except for the ending.

 

I know you don't consider it done, but I think with a little more very simple polishing - it really could be stylistically good. The satire is already good. You could even add hand drawn background elements.

 

And yeah - 'tube it as Robert said

 

I even more so hope Obama/Biden wins, as I want to see you on Keith Obermann's show.

[heyvern]

Nancy you are brilliant. Your ideas for the beginning and how to handle the "lack" or actually not needing a lot of animation is dead on. I was considering having "lights" in the windows indicating the voices... or shadows passing in front of windows showing the John character moving through the huge house looking for... a house.

 

I also thought of using the AM "cartoon" style I tried years ago. Using images as cookie cutter decals on very low patch shapes and do a "jib jab" sort of style of character animation inside the house (rather than an the outside shot as it is now). John rummaging through drawers and closets, pockets etc. The characters would be very simplistic "puppets" (some of you may know I use another 2d application for this kind of thing but since the idea originated here I would like to do it with AM.) This however would require a LOT more animation and my schedule it kind of tight right now (new animation job! WooHoo!).

 

However I really like your idea Nancy. I can see it clearly in my head the way you described it.

 

p.s. I am thrilled that the small bit of animation I actually did read at all. The "senior" moment when he walks to the wrong side of the car was my intention.

 

 

p.s.s. What are the copyright issues with the music? Does this fall into the "fair use" category? Maybe I should get the midi version and use Reason to mix the music track. Does SNL have to pay royalties when they use it?

 

-vern

[robcat2075]

I kind of liked the the camera pull back revealing the house being larger and larger and larger. I was hoping it would be even larger.

 

Find a recording of "Hail to the chief" by one of the military service bands. That ought to be semi PD. The tune itself is.

 

you can get the shaded render antialiased with multi-pass

[heyvern]

The main problem with the quality was my desire to get this done QUICKLY (before the news cycle passes on to something else). For some reason it indicated 17 hours to render... and this is on my faster new PC. So I just did a shaded render with 1 pass, no shadows. Only took 20 minutes but that still seems long for really nothing in there but.... bunches of houses and cars. It is however a very long animation. It could be the models I used have some funky materials... I pulled them off the first Extras disk without any modifications. I should look through and remove materials or decals that might be slowing it down. Or use instances in the chor rather than jamming everything in one big model... I was in a hurry.

 

-vern

[jzawacki]

Does SNL have to pay royalties when they use it?

 

Being that they are a commercial entity, I would guess they would.. but that doesn't mean you would.

[John Bigboote]

Don't worry about the music...post that to YouTube and watch the hits! Can't wait to see what you do in your next movie when you slam Obama Hussein!

[heyvern]

I'm rendering a new version. Still takes a bit of time. I did find some naughty materials and decals in there slowing things down so at least I trade the time for quality. Still going to take about 4 hours to render but at least it's final resolution with some multipass. I tried the shaded render with mulitpass but it still looked like crap. I was so stupid though, thought I was rendering image sequences so I stopped the rendering on the section where the camera stops only to find I hadn't changed the setting... and was rendering AVI... had to start over... ARGH!

 

I don't know if this version will be that much better. I totally redid the house so it looks more like a mansion, added a circular driveway, fountain, and a swimming pool. It will allow me to composite in additional stuff later without rerendering the whole thing and update it on youtube if I want to (have to find my dang login). I was thinking when the camera stops moving (wide shot) having a bunch of little people drive in to do gardening, work on the pool etc. I suppose this news item is still "fresh". They should keep this one going for a while I would hope.

 

-vern

[John Bigboote]

In McCain's defense...if I may... he has 2 residences, a cottage, and several rental/investment properties- the number of which could change at any time as he has 'people' who manage his investments. Once Obama Hussein hits his elder years, I'm sure he will have several homes as well...they USED to be good investments(in McCains day at least.)

 

If that's all the Dems can come up with for dirt on McCain...this things over. Dig deeper! Look for homosexual cousins... geneological links to John Wilkes Booth... maybe his last name is identical to a convicted tyranical mass-murdering terrorist?

[heyvern]

I have to disagree. I think THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES needs to BE AWARE of things like this. John McCain should know EXACTLY how many properties he has. What happens if one of those "'people' who manage his investments" decides to sell off one of the properties and steal the money? He has no idea what he owns so he wouldn't know if it was missing. That is how things like that happen. When you have so much money you don't HAVE to keep track of things like this you can get lazy about other things.

 

I would hate to think he becomes president and can't remember how many troops are in the field or the names of political leaders, or the names of countries, or any number of other important things that need to be kept track of. I don't expect him to remember EVERYTHING, but not knowing how many properties you and your wife own is... it's just crazy stupid. It's not good. Maybe rich people have this problem. It's fine for them but NOT for someone who wants to run the country.

 

I can't give him a pass on this.

 

-vern

[John Bigboote]

I am no millionaire...but I have 'people' who watch my investments, they are called (among other things) Merrill Lynch.

 

NOW--- we find out Obama's running mate is 'in the pockets' of the big credit card companies... THAT is toon fodder! Go git 'im, Vern.

[robcat2075]

Ya just know that if the Obamas owned a bunch of houses that were "hers" on paper and not quite "theirs" the news channels would be all over that with things like

 

-is it a tax dodge? An unfair tax shelter the average citizen doesn't have access to?

-Why dont' they have a real Christian marrriage where they share everything? Do loving couples keep things from each other?

-Does the separate property mean she's a secret lesbian?

-Why can't he be trusted to have the property in his name also?

-Doesn't the muslim faith forbid such things?!?

-What are the secret clauses in their pre-nup agreement? Why haven't those been made public?

-Are those houses wasting energy while they aren't occupied?

-Will we have to pay for Secret Service protection for all those houses if he gets elected?

 

But all the McCains get is a few days as a late-night joke.

[heyvern]

I am no millionaire...but I have 'people' who watch my investments, they are called (among other things) Merrill Lynch.

 

p.s. So... you let Merrill Lynch cash your checks? Buy your cars? Your house? Yes you let people "handle things" but you know WHAT they handle.

 

NOW--- we find out Obama's running mate is 'in the pockets' of the big credit card companies... THAT is toon fodder! Go git 'im, Vern.

 

What? because because his son worked for MBNA? Because MBNA donated to his campaign? Because of that bankruptcy bill? Whoopy freaking do. Good god people. If that's the ONLY stuff you got bring it on. Compared to John McCain Biden is the second coming (well third if you count Barack. ). Attack Joe Biden? No way dude. Joe is my guy. He lives in Wilmington man! He's like... going to be VP and he's from right next door! He's the coolest dude! He's so cool. And come on people, I'm a guy but still... Biden is very attractive. Wilmington will be famous! I may get on TV some day! (look for me in the background with a sign whenever they have news from Willmington.)

 

Even his "plagarism" is blown out of proportion. Who cares! Bush doesn't even write his own speeches! AND he got D's in college. So NONE OF YOU OR ANYONE ELSE EVER EVERY CHEATED IN SCHOOL? Yeah right. I bet 99% of anyone who went to school plagarised something from someone. That doesn't make it right and he paid the price in '88... just like McCain is paying the price right now for his tiny little house/s faux pas.

 

Side note: ALL of the credit card companies and big businesses like to incorporate in WILMINGTON DE. That is how the city makes big bucks and encourages banks like MBNA to set up here and bring TONS OF JOBS AND LOTS OF MONEY INTO THE CITY. And yes, it is also why the interest rates on said cards are high but that isn't Biden's claim to fame. You can blame that on Governor Pierre S. du Pont. That was his doing. Did you ever see the movie "Fight Club"? Set right here in good old Wilmington DE. That last scene looking out the window at all the bank headquarters? Yeah... totally fake... I walked past all those buildings for 12 years when I worked down town. And no, they didn't film any of that movie here.

 

p.s. Good GOD! Did anyone hear Michelle Obama's speech tonight? Freaking awesome. SHE should be the VP. Crap... she should run for president. That woman has a silver tongue. I think I'm in love... she's so... tall.

 

-vern

[MJL]

Hey, Biden's got my vote, his hair plugs are looking natural now, aren't they?

[jzawacki]

Biden is very attractive.

 

There you have it.. Vern's finally come out of the closet.. It's ok Vern.. we won't past judgment on you just because of your sexual preference.

 

 

Side note: I think you guys have all forgot that you _must_ be corrupt to be a politician.. It's part of the job. So, what you should be choosing is the one that is A ) less corrupt, B ) has an opinion and sticks to it, not all wishy washy trying to make everyone happy, and C ) hopefully shares your views.

 

because A ) they all do whatever they want anyway, B ) don't make all the choices, there are other parts of the government, and C ) their main objective is to line their already filled pockets.

[Jeetman]

I have to disagree. I think THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES needs to BE AWARE of things like this. John McCain should know EXACTLY how many properties he has.

 

OK John McCain didn't know how many houses he owns. Vern feels this is important. But what about this:

 

 

I'm thinking the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES should know how long a president is allowed to be in office (No Obama, it's NOT 8 to 10 years LOL it's 8 and that's ONLY if you're re-elected for another 4 years).

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwQvb_anYl8

 

I'm also thinking that the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES should know how many states there are in the USA (NO OBAMA!! It is NOT 59 LOL it's 50). Maybe if Obama showed more respect to the flag and counted the stars, he'd have known that hehe. Some of you may say he says 57 but he then adds that he hasn't been to Alaska or Hawaii bringing his total states to 59.

 

Checkout the youtube link if you think he just made a mistake. The guy's not presidential material IMO.

 

 

I can see McCains gaffe but these gaffes are scary.

 

Also, I'm SOOO glad the Democrats picked Joe Biden and not Hilary. Now they WILL LOSE!!!!!!!

 

George

[Jeetman]

Ya just know that if the Obamas owned a bunch of houses that were "hers" on paper and not quite "theirs" the news channels would be all over that with things like

 

-is it a tax dodge? An unfair tax shelter the average citizen doesn't have access to?

-Why dont' they have a real Christian marrriage where they share everything? Do loving couples keep things from each other?

-Does the separate property mean she's a secret lesbian?

-Why can't he be trusted to have the property in his name also?

-Doesn't the muslim faith forbid such things?!?

-What are the secret clauses in their pre-nup agreement? Why haven't those been made public?

-Are those houses wasting energy while they aren't occupied?

-Will we have to pay for Secret Service protection for all those houses if he gets elected?

 

But all the McCains get is a few days as a late-night joke.

 

Considering that the mainstream media (NBC, CBS, ABC) and MSNBC AND CNN are basically cheering for Obama, I'd have to disagree. The only news channel I see that would report a story like that would be FOX news. The rest would report it but not make a big deal about it IMO.

 

Wait....I don't think MSNBC would even report it LOL.

 

George

[Joe Gamblin]

Side note: I think you guys have all forgot that you _must_ be corrupt to be a politician.. It's part of the job. So, what you should be choosing is the one that is A ) less corrupt, B ) has an opinion and sticks to it, not all wishy washy trying to make everyone happy, and C ) hopefully shares your views.

 

because A ) they all do whatever they want anyway, B ) don't make all the choices, there are other parts of the government, and C ) their main objective is to line their already filled pockets.

 

That's two "amens" in two minutes. You're on a roll today.

[John Bigboote]

With BOTH parties floating some pretty WEAK choices past us...maybe it's time to start thinking 3rd party?

[Atomike]

To be fair to Mr. Obama, his line about the President's term being 8-10 years is accurate. You can serve 2 terms = 8 years, plus another 2 if you take over for another president (death, resignation, etc). Therefore, you can serve 10 years.

 

To be fair to Mr. McCain, his "extra" houses are investments. Anyone who has a problem with the multiple house issue simply needs to look in a mirror. As stated above, if you own a 401k, you have people handle these things. To blame McCain for this statement is intellectually dishonest.

 

To be fair to the voting public: both of these issues are completely irrelevant to the election.

[jzawacki]

With BOTH parties floating some pretty WEAK choices past us...maybe it's time to start thinking 3rd party?

 

Personally, I feel that has pretty much always been the case. We had two elections where we had a good choice (again, my personal opinion) and a lot of people voted for Ross Perot, just not enough. I think the fact that he did get as manyy votes as he did should have sent a clear message that people are sick of the crappy choices we are getting from a two party system. Ross was the only one that didn't fully go through the corruption needed to fit into the "politician" title and was the only one in my opinion that might actually do what he says, and not just blow smoke up everyones bum to get elected. He didn't just says this or that.. he backed it up with examples.. Of course.. everyone hates looking at charts, but the fact is he was willing to show what he was saying, not just make stuff up without any basis behind it.

[heyvern]

To be fair to Mr. McCain, his "extra" houses are investments. Anyone who has a problem with the multiple house issue simply needs to look in a mirror. As stated above, if you own a 401k, you have people handle these things. To blame McCain for this statement is intellectually dishonest.

 

To be fair to the voting public: both of these issues are completely irrelevant to the election.

 

Hogwash. a 401K changes constantly. You have to check every day to know precisely how much is there, the stock market goes up or down, your employer changes their contribution etc etc. An "investment" in stocks or the bank is not ANYTHING like investing in property. The house issue is not about investments, it's about being out of touch with the people you are trying to reach. It's about the "haves" and "have nots". McCain has between 7-10 houses... but he doesn't know for sure... so you have a bunch of people who can't pay their mortgage, losing their houses and he wants their vote. That is the issue. The mindset.

 

You also forget that McCain has been calling Obama elitist and out of touch with Americans. That is the pot calling the kettle black. The fact is Obama is closer to and more in touch with the average American that McCain is. Maybe they are going on a bit much about this house issue but it had to be done. The record had to be set straight. If Obama is out of touch with Americans where does that put McCain who can't remember how many homes he owns or rents?

 

There are probably only a handful of people in America rich enough not to know how many homes they own. Even those who invest in realestate know how many homes they own at a given time. If you don't you are STUPID!

 

----------------

 

There will never be a third party in the US, not one that has any chance of getting more than a few percent of the vote. It will never happen. Third party is a joke. The only thing a third party could do is effect the chances of one of the other two. It's like a boxing match and some guy from the audience jumps in the ring. He might swing a few punches and get some applause but he never wins the match.

 

-vern

[Atomike]

Vern, this is politics. Everybody knows this. If you agreed with McCain politically, you would not care about this issue. Most folks care about real issues. This is not one. Obama's term-statement is irrelevant. McCain's investments are his own business. You may think that these things display their leadership skills - but really, why not look at their actual views on real issues instead? It's really alot more accurate.

I don't publicly endorse any candidate on this forum. I just wish that real issues were the real issues. That and animation.

[heyvern]

I disagree. I think the house issue points to a lack of understanding on McCain's part to really understand who is hurting in America. It is the people who don't own 10 houses that are going to elect or not elect him. It is also that majority that is hurt by policies enacted that promote and aid the wealthy. If he doesn't understand that then how can he be of a mind to help those people? He is more inclined to help the rich friends he has and those that helped his campaign.

 

If he really really cared about the poor in this country he could sell 5 of those houses and donate the proceeds to a charity.

 

-vern

[John Bigboote]

Yup--- I voted for old H.Ross TWICE! (two elections mind you.)

 

Bill Clinton was the only one who benefited that. But BOY! Was he ever right about the 'Giant Sucking Sound'... It is louder than ever right now. If you want to see Obama running his course of 'change' (for better or worse) you should get excited about a strong 3rd party candidate that would take away republican votes.

[heyvern]

I've never heard of a third party candidate that takes away votes from the republicans. I wonder why? I guess they are conservative so that kind of "change" doesn't appeal to them. As long as the candidate says all the right things (even if it's different every time to different groups) they just vote for him.

 

Seriously though, I don't think the majority of voters actually make an effort to look into anything. If the commercials say Obama is responsible for high gas prices then it must be true. If a book says Obama is a radical extremist muslim then it must be true. The problem with these smear campaigns is exactly what happened with Hilary and Obama. You can't just sick that genie back in the bottle. Once you go down that path there is no way to fix it later if the plan didn't work.

 

What bothers me are the Hilary supporters who are so mad that Obama won they are going to vote for McCain. Does this mean Hilary is more like McCain? And now Bill is making stupid statements that Obama isn't fit to be president. Do these morons really want another "4 years of Bush"? Does Hilary really want to be president so bad she would encourage this? I just don't get it. Seriously though. McCain would be just another 4 years of exactly the same thing... it might even get worse. Expect more wars, expect the draft. Anyone young enough, if McCain does win, pack your bags, you're going to war... or Canada.

 

-vern

[John Bigboote]

Hillary would benefit from a McCain victory so she could run again in 2012 on the 'I told you so' ticket.

[robcat2075]

I've never heard of a third party candidate that takes away votes from the republicans.

 

I think Perot siphoned off mostly votes from Bush41. I've always thought the main reason he ran was to defeat Bush. I forget what the grudge was but he really hated Bush41.

 

I think Perot would have done better if he hadn't dropped out in the middle of the campaign with that "they were going to disrupt my daughter's wedding" story. And then VP "Admiral Stockdale" who didn't know who he was.

 

I've actually bumped into Ross Perot. I was at a Dallas Symphony concert and was coming down a staircase and he was coming around the corner and WHAM! Didn't knock him over though. Short. Low center of gravity.

 

 

My favorite Ross Perot Sketch from SNL:

 

http://www.hulu.com/watch/4123/saturday-ni...ride-with-perot

[Bruce Del Porte]

I've never heard of a third party candidate that takes away votes from the republicans.

There was Pat Buchanan in 2000. He probably impacted the race in a way he never intended by receiving votes from people too stupid to know who they were voting for in Florida. I don't remember him campaigning for the illiterate vote but even he admitted he got way more votes than he expected in some counties.

 

Isn’t “Do these morons really want another "4 years of Bush"? “ really the same irrelevant “smear” you complain about? Bush isn’t running and won’t be part of any McCain administration. At least talk about McCain's failings, real or imagined. Obama’s big issue of Iraq can’t be discussed because it will kill him to admit the surge has been effective. The withdrawal date will be negotiated well before the election, is Obama going to oppose a withdrawal date because it was negotiated by Rice? The usual Democrat platform of higher taxes and hate is all he has left. Obama should be twenty points up in the polls but he is even and fading, he should have picked Billary.

[heyvern]

Isn’t “Do these morons really want another "4 years of Bush"? “ really the same irrelevant “smear” you complain about?

 

Oh please. No it isn't. It's a lot less offensive than what the other side is saying about Obama. It's amazing how the republicans and their supporters STARTED OUT saying vile horrible lies about Obama but MAN! Say one tiny little negative about McCain and you're the Devil. McCain has YET to denounce that book full of lies about Obama. Yet today Obama and Hilary Clinton denounced and spoke out against Madonna's comparison of McCain to hitler in her concert video. McCain needs to do the same with that book... but he won't because negative campaigns work. Bush won two elections with that technique. Honed it to a razor's edge in '04 with the swift boat guys. Did you know years later they were found guilty? The republican party DID give them money. Small news article. No one cares because it's ancient history.

 

Everyone supporting McCain talks about the "surge" being a success. The war had been going on for years before the surge. The only reason the surge was successful was that it couldn't possibly get any worse than it was. It was successful compared to the failure UP TO THAT POINT. The war isn't over, McCain HAS SAID HIMSELF that he wants to show more military muscle. McCain has also said he would not rule out the draft... not that little slip the other night, he supports the draft. His campaign tries to downplay that.

 

When I say that McCain will be another 4 years of Bush, I'm serious. McCain's campaign platform is almost identical to what Bush has been doing for the last 8 years. War, military, cutting domestic programs... uh... sorry... GUTTING domestic programs. That is what I mean. McCain is a carbon copy of Bush in many ways. It's the same mentality, the same hard core military thinking. Go to war instead of diplomacy. His solution for everything is to use the military. He keeps saying the US has to be "tougher" in the world arena.

 

I honestly don't know why the vets support him, why he keeps talking about helping the troops, he's voted against every bill put up to add money for helping the troops. All politicians "change their minds"... but changing his mind is like changing his clothes. He does one thing and says another. He changes his position in stump speeches ON THE SAME DAY.

 

Another issue that concerns me is Bush's attempt to ELIMINATE the two party system and erode the rights of the American citizens. If McCain gets in all that will continue and get worse. We desperately need some new blood in the white house... maybe Obama isn't THE ABSOLUTELY PERFECT CHOICE but he's better than we've seen in a while. We need some new ideas not the same old same old. There have been good republican presidents in the past but I don't feel that McCain is going to make any difference. He will be a continuation of the same beliefs and policies as the last administration.

 

My GOD we need someone new. There were other republican candidates that I would have felt much better about. I was so hoping McCain would not win. His advertising is repugnant. Obama HAS TO play the same game or he ends up like Kerry did when he refused to address the attacks. Smear campaigns WORK.

 

-vern

[ruscular]

I've never heard of a third party candidate that takes away votes from the republicans.

There was Pat Buchanan in 2000. He probably impacted the race in a way he never intended by receiving votes from people too stupid to know who they were voting for in Florida. I don't remember him campaigning for the illiterate vote but even he admitted he got way more votes than he expected in some counties.

 

Isn’t “Do these morons really want another "4 years of Bush"? “ really the same irrelevant “smear” you complain about? Bush isn’t running and won’t be part of any McCain administration. At least talk about McCain's failings, real or imagined. Obama’s big issue of Iraq can’t be discussed because it will kill him to admit the surge has been effective. The withdrawal date will be negotiated well before the election, is Obama going to oppose a withdrawal date because it was negotiated by Rice? The usual Democrat platform of higher taxes and hate is all he has left. Obama should be twenty points up in the polls but he is even and fading, he should have picked Billary.

 

I am not sure that can be taking away from Obama since he was the first to suggest those changes, as people see it, that Bush has been implementing of What Obama has propose to take it away from him and make it there own. Obama was the one that first propose these changes of a deadline withdrawals.

 

As for the 50+ states dont forget those pesky territorial states, The United States possesses five major territories with indigenous populations: Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands in the Caribbean; and American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands in the Pacific. Those born in the territories (except for American Samoa) possess U.S. citizenship. Which means the rights to vote for any US citizenship regardless if your in the 50 states.

 

As for any rebuttal of John McCain gaffe is always resort to the POW clause, and that somehow forgo that because he didn't have a house in 5 years that remembering how many he has now is moot point.

 

Both candidate combine only receive public campaign funding of .9% from ordinary folks like yourself while the rest is corporates. Speaking of which AT&T set up shop in the democratic party as the wind seem to be blowing in their favor, as John "Maverick" McCain, the sidekicks that votes 95% of what Bush wanted in keeping the failed policy going for another 4 years. The republican are drifting into the democratic party and setting up the same kind of secrecy for elite party member only club. Bottom line is that the majority of the people don't have a say in govt, but what the other 99.1% corporates contributor do say in govt.

 

McCain is much like Bush in a way that they both are malleable as far as being told what to do by the corporates. They both graduated from the bottom of the class and high favoritism in the military. McCain got his nickname "Maverick" in the military for crashing the planes repeatedly, and was consider dubious that he was even given a plane with his low score and blunders. But same could be said for drunken Pappy Boyington, but Pappy never ran for president.

 

I just love these kind of discussion! you guys make it so easy!

 

As for the best man to run for president? first we need to own the media and maybe get a fair chance to actually pick what the people want and not what distortion we are given to decide with. Read 2 books for and against the candidate for each party is about the best we can decide with. Throw away the TV!

[Bruce Del Porte]

A lot less offensive, so it is a matter of degree? Does an outright lie constitute a "smear"? Like;

Another issue that concerns me is Bush's attempt to ELIMINATE the two party system and erode the rights of the American citizens. If McCain gets in all that will continue and get worse.

I didn't know we were down to two parties, but for the sake of argument lets say we are, Bush may have seriously harmed the Republican party but I don't think he consciously tried to eliminate it. Maybe you could elaborate on his attempt and McCains support of the effort.

 

If pointing out that Obama is not ready to lead is "smear", it was developed by Clinton and Biden. Yes the Republicans use negative advertising, because it works. You do too!

[heyvern]

Bush and Chenney's goal was to eliminate the DEMOCRATIC party, maybe not elminate it but make it powerless. They were using lobbying and changing the rules to lock in the Republicans in the government. They did a pretty good job of it in the first four years. Look at what the republican congress did? Nothing much but let Bush get away with what can only be described as crimes. and if Bush hadn't made so many bad decisions and gotten such low approval ratings he might have accomplished the task and gone even further. If Bush had a solid approval rating right now McCain would be a shoe in.

 

I've always have had some negative feelings about any administration. They all do stupid things. But for the first time I actually FEAR the current administration. It has whittled away at our constitutional rights until now they can basically arrest anyone they want, without cause. I am talking anyone, even US citizens. They promise not to do anything bad but with that kind of power it's bound to be abused. We need someone new in there. Someone who can try to stop this "big brother" mentality. McCain would jump at the chance to take advantage of these new rules for "fighting terrorism". He is a military guy. They love not having limits on their power. He is from the party of Bush. The party that almost owned washington because of the lobbyists that were being pulled in from republican politicians.

 

In the last 40 years there have only been 3 democratic presidents,. I think it is time for a new person at the helm. Someone new. Someone with some new ideas.

 

See I listen to what both candidates say and I just don't believe in McCain's sincerity. I think it's a fake. He wants to be president. I actually believe Obama does want to make changes for the better. I wasn't too sure about Hilary to be honest. I was nervous about her. I actually liked Huckabee... maybe I'm an idiot but I kind of wouldn't have minded him that much. McCain just rubs me the wrong way. I can't trust him. He comes across like a president who will have to rely too much on advisor's. Look what happened to Bush doing that too much. McCain says he doesn't know anything about economics, he doesn't know which side is which in Iraq (till Lieberman whispered in his ear, he didn't know that Czechoslovakia no longer exists. That's not good. It makes me nervous. Then add on the fact he doesn't know how many homes he owns. You know, he should have thought of that before. He should have known that might be an issue and just wrote it down on a slip of paper in his wallet.

 

This election is probably more important than any in a very long time. this election is historical. It will be talked about for a long time to come. It will be interesting to look back in 4 years to see how things went.

 

-vern

[phatso]

I'm convinced right down to my toenails that Obama wants to change things for the better. I just don't think he has a single clue how.

[ruscular]

I'm convinced right down to my toenails that Obama wants to change things for the better. I just don't think he has a single clue how.

 

If Obama does become president, he will have all that power pass onto him. what he does with it remains to be seen, as he will be vulnerable to all the restructuring of the three branches and the missing fair and balance media.

 

BTW anyone wants my Bush character fully rig let me know! I am in a need of a McCain or Obama!

[NancyGormezano]

I'm convinced right down to my toenails that Obama wants to change things for the better. I just don't think he has a single clue how.

 

No one person has a clue.

 

The goal is to pick an intelligent enough leader that knows how to pick the right advisors/specialists and be a critical enough thinker to know what to do with the advice.

 

Baby Bush is an embarassment to listen to. He sounds inarticulate, and incredibly dumb. McCain sounds like an older, dumber version of Bush. He is embarassing also.

 

The rest of the world regards Bush as an idiot, and is astounded that the US population elected him for a 2nd term. It is important to pick a leader that at least sounds intelligent.

 

Obama is incredibly articulate, seems incredibly intelligent. I have no problem if he changes his views based on new information. I would have a problem with any leader who DIDN'T change his views as he learns new facts, as they become revealed. To not be flexible, and dynamic in this fast changing world is a sure recipe for being crushed.

 

It is not an asset to "stay the course" regardless of the truth. It's a sign of true ignorance and stupid ego.

 

The leader who gets us out of this disastrous mess the US finds itself in today because of the hubris and stupidity and criminal activity of the Bush/Cheney gang, needs genius-like qualities. That ain't McCain.

 

And we need a President/leader/ambassador who the rest of the world might respect, as we need to rebuild alliances that have been so recklessly destroyed.

[heyvern]

Man... just watched Joe Biden's speech tonight... man oh man. I like that guy. He's a "real" person. He isn't a fake. There just isn't anything insincere about him. He's just a regular guy and he can talk. Most of these conventions bore the freaking heck out of me. the last democratic convention was a total snooze fest. This one felt like a Madonna concert with out the video of Hitler! Truth be told... I've never been to a Madonna concert, but if I saw one I would hope it was just like this democratic convention... uh... all 2 hours of it I've seen anyway (I don't even know who most of those people are who they get to speak.)

 

Has anyone been watching any of the MSNBC coverage? Rachel Maddow looks a bit rough around the edges. She looks... tired... dark circles under the eyes.. something's wrong with her makeup. She needs more rest. By the way, I predicted her new show the first time I saw her on Count Down. I haven't heard her radio show but I really really like her. It might be the fact that she is an exact twin of my younger sister. Put those two together they look like they could be sisters. Of course I'm sure my sister had the short haircut first.

 

I'm so tired of this election process... I just want it to be over already... so I can decide if I need to move to Europe or I can just stay here. I heard that Europe's population growth is way down. They need more people! If McCain wins that is always an option for me. Since I have absolutely no clue about European politics or politicians I won't really care so much who wins and won't get so angry all the time. Plus... they have nude beaches.

 

There you have it. A slice of my mind. I go from Joe Biden's speech to nude beaches in just a few sentences.

 

-vern

[robcat2075]

Just in case no one caught these going around.

 

 

[heyvern]

Dang... I've never been Rickrolled before. there goes my record. Does this count as an actual "Rickrolling"? Or is this going to be a new craze that sweeps the internet?

 

 

-vern

[Jeetman]

Seriously though, I don't think the majority of voters actually make an effort to look into anything. If the commercials say Obama is responsible for high gas prices then it must be true. If a book says Obama is a radical extremist muslim then it must be true.

 

 

The exact same argument can be said for politician who claim that they are going to provide good healthcare for all or that they're going to just raise the taxes of the rich.

 

Any informed person knows that trying to provide healthcare for everyone (including the millions of illegal alliens - we can't forget them) is living in a dream world. Unfortunately the same voters you speak of buy into this BULL.

 

Obama's a socialist and the fact that he's using his power to try to stifle free speech should be worrysome to everyone.

 

http://word.truthintheword.org/archives/1750

[Jeetman]

he should have picked Billary.

 

LOL

 

I'm glad he didn't. Can't wait to see "The Chosen One" ascend the Greek Coliseum he's having built for himself LOL. I don't know who has a bigger ego, Obama or Biden.

[Jeetman]

I am not sure that can be taking away from Obama since he was the first to suggest those changes, as people see it, that Bush has been implementing of What Obama has propose to take it away from him and make it there own. Obama was the one that first propose these changes of a deadline withdrawals.

 

If we would have listened to Obama and pulled out immediately....wait is he still for that? I keep up with his changes. No I think he changed that when he saw that the surge was working. Well anyway, if we'd have listened to his original idea, after we went in, Iraq would be a mess and the Dems would have had the lose they were hoping for. Thankfully, Bush did not listen and we have basically won.

 

As for the 50+ states dont forget those pesky territorial states, The United States possesses five major territories with indigenous populations: Puerto Rico and the United States Virgin Islands in the Caribbean; and American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands in the Pacific. Those born in the territories (except for American Samoa) possess U.S. citizenship. Which means the rights to vote for any US citizenship regardless if your in the 50 states.

 

You know it's funny but when I've watched Presidential elections (and I've seen a few), I've never heard the call out for Puerto Rico or Guam when they were tallying the votes. To justify Obama's dumb gaffe by suggesting he's adding Puerto Rico and Guam is quite a stretch to say the least LOL.

 

 

 

 

 

McCain is much like Bush in a way that they both are malleable as far as being told what to do by the corporates. They both graduated from the bottom of the class and high favoritism in the military. McCain got his nickname "Maverick" in the military for crashing the planes repeatedly, and was consider dubious that he was even given a plane with his low score and blunders. But same could be said for drunken Pappy Boyington, but Pappy never ran for president.

 

I just love these kind of discussion! you guys make it so easy!

 

The only thing I see you do easily is distort facts. Unless you're telling me that you believe that Obama and Biden don't have any corporate backers? LOL

 

As for the best man to run for president? first we need to own the media and maybe get a fair chance to actually pick what the people want and not what distortion we are given to decide with. Read 2 books for and against the candidate for each party is about the best we can decide with. Throw away the TV!

 

I don't know how we could own the media but I agree that it's not objective.

[John Bigboote]

Am I the only one who did this?

 

The moment I heard Joe Biden was to be VP for OBama- I got me a pen and paper and tried to descramble the letters of their names to spell Osama Bin Laden... (too much scrabble and the Doors music)