Need some basic help!!!!!

[Squoosh]

I am so glad I finally realized that there was a forum! I got this program about a year ago and I am still really struggling with it. I cant get my head around the keyframes etc...

 

I suppose my biggest problem is that when for example I try to make a character move lets say two points of a triangle and then play it back, the chacter just seems to gradually move from his starting position to his finishing position in the shortest way possible.

 

O.K. maybe that wasn't such a great explanation... ummm... when I... ummm... I cant think of another example, but I really need some helpas the instruction manual doesn't really have what I need. Thank you!

 

Oh by the way... here is the best thing that i've made with it. This should prove how much help I need!

Bottle_cat.mov

[Rodney]

Glad you finally found the forum!

Hopefully we can spread the word further in 2008.

There are a lot of A:M Users out there I know could benefit from being here.

 

You are going to want to spend some time with the Timeline.

I'm not sure how familiar you are with it.

 

Robert Holmen has some video examples of working in a timeline posted here in the forum.

We need to connect you with them.

 

Perhaps more importantly, we need to see what you are seeing. Anything you can do to help us in that regard will help us help you.

 

Do you know how to capture a screen using the PrintScreen function on your keyboard?

 

Nice little animation.

It shows that Keekat really shouldn't drink!

[heyvern]

Aha! The Psychic Software Syndrome strikes again... I think. It sounds like it to me.

 

The problem you have is thinking of "moving" and "not moving" as two different things. They are the same. If you want to make something NOT move you need a key frame for it just like you need a key frame to make something move. The reason I call this the Psychic Software Syndrome is that new users unfamiliar with key frames and how the timeline works expect the software to "read their minds" and somehow know when they want something to start and stop.

 

Just remember that EVERYTHING needs to be key framed. The software doesn't know the difference between a "moving" key frame and a "not moving" key frame. It knows nothing you don't tell it. If something is NOT moving from frame 0 to frame 5 and then moves from frame 5 to frame 10 you will still need a key on frame 5, the same key from frame 0, to hold it in place (not moving) and then the moving key frame on 10. You can help with this by changing the key filters... what gets keyed when you move things. If you set all the buttons to key everything then each time you move one item all the items get keyed at that spot. This can create more keys than you need though.

 

I will stop there just in case this is not the problem you have.

 

-vern

[Squoosh]

Thanks, yeah thats part of the problem I have, though really it's all of the keyframe business that confuses me. I'm normally a stop motion animator.

 

OK i've found a better way to explain my frustration. Basically, how do you make an object/character appear? Because when I insert it at a certain point on the timeframe, I go back to the beginning of the animation and its there from the start, what if i want it to simply appear at a certain time?

 

Also, i'm confused about the timelline frame thing at the bottom. Sometimes I change the last 2 digits and it jumps forward a second. Eh?

 

Anyway, heres another animation I made...

Swallow.mov

[Rodney]

OK i've found a better way to explain my frustration. Basically, how do you make an object/character appear? Because when I insert it at a certain point on the timeframe, I go back to the beginning of the animation and its there from the start, what if i want it to simply appear at a certain time?

 

You may want to investigate the topic 1 post from yours in the forum: Making a model appear out of nowhere

 

P.S. Your Swallow animation is strangely like an animation I made two days ago. Poor seahorse!

[Squoosh]

Oh great, thanks that thread is helpful. Did you say that there was a video tutorial about the frame-timeline? By the way, on swallow, for some reason I couldn't drag the shark's body round so he has to swim sideways!

 

 

Right I have just made a movie to explain my problem. Basically, when I made the movie, rabbit bent his knees AFTER getting hit by the bowling ball (buckling under it's weight). However, as you can see from the movie both actions (rabbit crouching and ball falling) happen AT THE SAME TIME not one after another as I intended. Please watch it and help me! Thank you

Test.mov

[Caroline]

Hi, Squoosh.

 

These are the keyframes you appear to have:

 

Frame 0: ball up and rabbit hips up.

Frame 40ish: ball down and rabbit hips down.

 

A:M very cleverly "tweens" between ball up and ball down, but also between rabbit hips up and rabbit hips down.

 

You need a keyframe for the rabbit to keep his hips in one place until frame 30ish, so that the only "tweening" is between 30ish and 40ish.

So - you have Frame 0 hips up, Frame 30ish hips still up, Frame 40ish hips down.

 

Movie tutorial:

Robert Holmen's Making Bones Stay In Place

 

If you cannot view this movie in Quicktime, you will need the Ensharpen codec from:

http://www.techsmith.com/download/codecs.asp

 

I also found this post that I had forgotten about - this is describing feet moving in TaoA:M's exercise 6, but the principle is the same.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=204407

[Squoosh]

I downloaded the codec and it still doesnt work! AARRGGHHH!!!

 

 

anyway, I suppose what I need to know is what is the difference between a frame and a keyframe. And how do I use these to fix my problem in my video I have uploaded.

 

I keep experiamenting but II still cant find a way for 2 objects to move when I want them to, not all at the same time. Help!

[heyvern]

A frame is nothing... just a frame. A single point in time. If you have a 10 second animation at 24 fps the "frames" are all the frames of the entire animation.

 

A key frame (or just "key") is a point of motion ON a frame that indicates a change in the object that was keyed (key frame). This key could represent a single channel (x translation) or it could represent several channels (x translation, y translation, rotation, etc). If you place a key frame on frame 10 that moves something up, AM will move the object up a "little bit" on each frame till it reaches the key frame on frame 10. It is the "little bit" on each frame that creates the motion. This tweened motion is called interpolation.

 

To make one thing move at a different time than something else you would move a specific items key frame forward or back. This is why you need a key frame to make something "not move". That key is just as important as the key that indicates movement. If the ball in the example moved up gradually from frame 0 to frame 10 (the key frame) and you placed another key on frame 5 identical to the key on frame 0 then the ball does not move from frame 0 to 5. It starts to move on frame 6 and stops at the position on frame 10. Moving the key on frame 5 forward or back will change the speed and starting point of the motion.

 

Some animators do not use key frame tweening or interpolation. They will place a key on every single frame (or every 2 frames, or every 3 frames). This is the way it was done in the "good old days". An animator would draw the important key frames and lowly less skilled artiists (just kidding but not really ) would draw the "inbetween" frames.

 

Key frames are not specific to Animation Master, they are a standard for all animation programs and animation in general.

 

-vern

[Squoosh]

This may sound stupid but how do you create a keyframe as oppsosed to a normal frame?

[KenH]

Just moving a bone will make a keyframe in the timeline for that bone.....that is if the "Big A" icon in the top right of the screen is set to on. You can force a keyframe using the gold key icons below the timeline, but you shouldn't do that for now as it can cause other problems.

[robcat2075]

Movie tutorial:

Robert Holmen's Making Bones Stay In Place

 

btw, I think that may be in H.264 rather than techsmith in which case only QT 7 is needed. QT 6 doesn't have it.

[Squoosh]

I have version 7 but its not working

[Squoosh]

Oh wait, hang on its working! Yay!

[heyvern]

This may sound stupid but how do you create a keyframe as oppsosed to a normal frame?

 

Based on the animation you posted you have made key frames. Those "red dots" or "boxes" in the time line are key frames. So called "normal" frames aren't and don't need to be "created" they just "are". The time line is the frames. If your animation is 300 frames long, you have 300 frames just waiting for you to put "keys" on them. (I won't go into "inserting blank frames" just now. )

 

A frame is just a frame. Keys exist "in" or "on" a frame. A "normal" frame is really just a "holder" for "keys". Keys do all the work. If you are sitting on the couch doing absolutely nothing, waiting for someone to knock on the door, the seconds and minutes that pass while you wait are "frames" in time. When the person knocks on your door and you get up to answer it, that would be a key frame.

 

p.s. This one time I used linear interpolation while sitting on the couch and tripped over the table when someone knocked on my door.

 

-vern

[Squoosh]

Yeah one thing...

 

 

I have only just realized that I need the timeline visable!

 

The timeline is making it MUCH easier!

 

 

 

 

Thanks a lot for the explanation anyway im starting slowly to get my head around it all!

[Squoosh]

Aaah! im confused again! parts of the animation still all happen together. Aaaahhh!!!!!! This is all so complicated!!! Isn't there a really really simple video tutorial for young novice begginners like me?

[Rodney]

Aaah! im confused again! parts of the animation still all happen together. Aaaahhh!!!!!! This is all so complicated!!! Isn't there a really really simple video tutorial for young novice begginners like me?

 

I put together a semi-tutorial that covers some of your options but... Quicktime refuses to export it. Strange.

As soon as I get it packaged up I'll upload it.

[phatso]

Is the point of confusion over the definition of keyframes or how they are made?

 

Since you do stop-motion, you must surely know that every pose occurs at a specific frame number, the next target pose occurs a specific number of frames later, and the in-between poses are spread out according to where you came from, where you're going, and the number of intervening frames. The difference with stop-motion is that you can't jump ahead to establish a keyframe, because you'd never get the in-betweens to match up perfectly. But with hand animation you can. In the days when cartoons were hand-done, for each motion the animatior would make a start pose and an end pose, specify the number of frames between them, and hand the drawings off to flunkies to make the in-between frames. With computer animation, that in-betweening job is what the computer does.

 

 

So: put the models in their beginning places at frame zero. Make that a keyframe (something many people forget to do.) If something is to start moving at frame 0, you don't have to do anything more at that frame. Advance the timeline cursor until the next frame where some part of the action will change. In the case of the dropping ball, it would be the frame where the ball hits the rabbit's head. How many frames do you want between where the ball starts dropping and where it hits his head? That's the frame you put the cursor on.

 

Now, imagine your computer is a roomful of hand-animating flunkies. You need to move the ball down to where it's in contact with the rabbit's head, but until this time the rabbit hasn't moved. So you make a keyframe here with the rabbit in the same position he had at the start. That tells your roomful of flunkies to make all their inbetweens up to this point with the rabbit in the same position.

 

This "hold until the ball hits" directive is what your animation didn't have. If you tell the computer (or a roomful of flunkies) that the model is standing on frame 0 and kneeling on frame 80, it will make inbetween drawings that move the model over that whole range. You need to have that intermediate keyframe that says, "At frame 0 the model is standing; at frame 40 he is still standing, at frame 80 he is on his knees. Make your inbetweens accordingly."

 

BTW - if you know anybody else who has A:M and hasn't discovered the forums, have pity on the poor sucker and spread the word.

[heyvern]

Can't get much clearer... here's a picture:

 

Single model in a choreograhy translated side to side/front to back

 

 

Channel view showing the translation curves x (red line) y (green line) and z (blue line).

 

-vern

[phatso]

Vern's post brings up a point that can't be repeated too often. You notice that there's a bit of reverse anticipation on the left part of at least one spline. This is because A:M fits smooth splines thru control points.

 

You cure this by changing the interpolation at the control point in the middle of the animation, where the action has to transition from still to moving. If you want acceleration from zero, click on the control point, right click, and select Zero Slope. If you want an abrupt start to the motion - which would be appropriate where the rabbit is getting hit on the head - click on the control point and peak it.

[Squoosh]

thank you so much everyone, this has really helped. However, just two points left that I am unclear on...

 

So you make a keyframe here with the rabbit in the same position he had at the start.

 

How do you do that? You make a keyframe by moving the character but in this case I dont want the character to move.

 

 

 

 

And also, why does the timeline keep changing? i prefer the simple lines to show where keyframes start. It keeps changing to thick red or blue bars

[heyvern]

You can copy and paste keys or to make a quick "key" for an element just select the object and nudge it with the arrow keys. Nudge it one way and then back. The object doesn't move but now you have a key frame.

 

There are 2 time lines. One is part of the PWS (project work space) where all the project assets are listed. In my set up the PWS is on the left side. The "time line" is connected to it on the right. It will get "closed up" and hard to see if the model or working window is real big on the right side.

 

The second time line is the one at the bottom. Both of these time lines work just a little bit differently. The blue bars indicate the length of a choreography (or action outside of the choreography), the red bars are the "actions" inside the model shortcut in the choreography. Actions length can be changed, the red bars indicate the length and cycling of an action. If you expand the properties triangle next to a model in the chor you see that red bar along with the animation keys. You can select individual elements (model, bones etc) and see the animated properties in the time line.

 

I have to ask... and I don't want to get yelled at by Rodney ... but...

 

... have you done all the tutorials? Have you read through the "TAoA:M" (The Art of Animation Master)? All of these concepts with screen grabs should be in there. The technical reference manual would also include explanations for this. A lot of what we are covering here is in the manual and tutorials. There are also videos online that, while not specifically covering the time line will at least show the time line in use. Glad to help out but some effort from your side of the teacher/student relationship can help.

 

I think you are getting close to understanding. Don't give up!

 

-vern

[phatso]

There are at least 3 ways of making a keyframe without moving a character.

 

1. Move it a little, then move it back.

2. Hit the "make keyframe" button on the bottom toolbar. Hover over the buttons with the cursor, they'll tell you what they do.

3. Copy a keyframe from earlier in the animation (in this case, frame 0) and paste it to the frame you want.

 

What Vern said about doing the exercises in the book - and doing them more than once is highly recommended. Exercise 3, "Move It," is the simplest of all animations; not really animation but a series of still poses. If you haven't done that one, anything else you try to do is like pushing a rope uphill. If you search this forum for other people's versions of exercise 3, you'll find some really creative riffs on the basic exercise.

[robcat2075]

This movie (Which it turns out is in the Ensharpen codec) does show how to make a keyframe without moving a anything

Movie tutorial:

Robert Holmen's Making Bones Stay In Place

 

watch it again.

[Squoosh]

I watched it again, and I have read the manual. I am so frustrated at the moment. I really thought that I had cracked it. I positioned the rabbit and ball in their correct places at frame 1, then positioned the ball on the head at frame 30. Then I made a keyframe at frame 30 so that I wouldn't get the 'all things move together syndrome'. I then made Mr. Rabbit bend his knees etc at frame 55. I really really really thought that I had sussed it. With anticipation, I dragged the timeline cursor to the front of the animation and lo and behold, the rabbit moved between frames 0 and 30. AARRRGGHH!!!!!

 

I know I must see, really really thick, and I can assure you that I am actually moderately intelligent. I have read the manual, I have being trying to understand this way beyond joining the forums. I think I am so close, but I am annoyed that when I finally thought that I had it, when I thought I had done EVERYTHING correct, it didn't work.

 

I haven't cracked this timeline business, but almost. It still feels like the timeline is trying to annoy me with constantly changing appearance etc...

Am I right in saying that you have to make different keyframes for each part of the body?

 

Please help me, i'm sorry to be such a pain, thank you so much for the help and support so far.

[heyvern]

Please help me, i'm sorry to be such a pain, thank you so much for the help and support so far.

 

A pain? A pain? Let me tell you about pain... have you ever stepped on one of those army pieces from the game "Risk" in bare feet? That's pain.

 

Yes, you do need to key all the bones that you want to move or not move. This is where the "key filters" and "key modes" are very important. You can try to guess which bones you want to key on your own and just key them by hand or you can click those key mode buttons at the bottom of the screen. If you rollover them it tells you what they do. One button means you key the whole skeleton when you move something, another will key only the bone and its children etc etc. I'm guessing pretty much since I don't have AM open right now. Look up "key filters" and "key modes" in the help.

 

Those key modes will help you keep everything in place and not moving when you don't want it too. However it may also add more keys than you actually need. The 3 icons look like teeny tiny red boxes representing bones bone chains and a skeleton. They only work on ONE object. It won't key the ball AND the rabbit. If you move a bone in the rabbit it will key the bones of the rabbit.

 

Keep going! Don't give up! At some point YOU WILL get that "Eureka" moment and when you look back on this a long time from now you will laugh about it... or cry... depends on if you just stepped on a Risk Game piece or not.

 

EDIT:

 

I then made Mr. Rabbit bend his knees etc at frame 55.

 

Aha! But you didn't key the rabbit knee bend at FRAME 30!!! The bend at frame 55 starts at frame 1 if you didn't make a key on frame 30 for the rabbits bones that move on frame 55. The keys for the rabbit on frame 30 should be the same as frame 1... not moving... not changed. The change happens from frame 30 to 55.

 

p.s. My neighbors with the barking dog some of you know about? Yes well... they are raising pit bulls. She... had... puppies.... talk about a pain.

 

-vern

[robcat2075]

I haven't cracked this timeline business, but almost. It still feels like the timeline is trying to annoy me with constantly changing appearance etc...

 

The "Timeline" (the window actually called the "Timeline") usually shows only what is currently selected, which may be why it looks like it's changing.

 

But there's another timeline that shows everything all the time even if it's not selected. This timeline is visible on the right side of the "Project Workspace". Stretch your "Project Workspace" window out to see it. You'll see all your bone keyframes and everything else in the project listed there.

[Squoosh]

I am finally understanding the concept. However, i think I must be doing something wrong as it takes so long top do everything. E.g. when I start to move a bone, the keyframe starts at 0 when I don't want it to and I have to drag it across the line which takes ages. Eache individual bone has to be seperately catered for, I thought thers was a simple timeline which showed it all. Hmm... Im not giving up how ever, Im determnined!

[phatso]

Good way to go. In a month you'll wonder why you ever had trouble.

 

You might want to try - be sure things are saved so you can go back if you don't like this - just making an overall keyframe at 30. Have you tried clicking on the little human in the lower left, then going to 30 and manually making a keyframe?

 

This isn't a good idea for lengthy, complicated animations with lots of characters, but for what you're doing it might speed things up.

[Rodney]

It sounds like you are getting a hang on keyframing.

Some success here too as I finally reinstalled Quicktime and can export animation again. Yay!

I'm not sure my piddly movie is worth posting this late in the game.

You've passed that stage in your animation.

 

If you are experiencing slow times in dragging your keyframes around you may want to consider things you can live without while animating. It shouldn't be as slow a process as you are describing it.

 

Consider what other programs you may be running.

Consider the amount of RAM you have.

Consider animating in Wireframe mode.

Select only the bone you are trying to animate. (Not the entire model or other bones higher in the hierarchy)

Save often so that A:M doesn't keep a lot of changes in memory.

...

[Squoosh]

Hang on.. im trying to upload a movie of me attempting the animation

[heyvern]

i think I must be doing something wrong as it takes so long top do everything. E.g. when I start to move a bone, the keyframe starts at 0 when I don't want it to and I have to drag it across the line which takes ages.

 

You said you read the manual. Have you done any of the TAoA:M exercises? Yes it takes ages to drag a key from frame 0 to somewhere way down the time line. I don't think they suggest dragging all the keys that way in the tutorials. It would be better to copy it and paste the key frame or create the key on the frame itself. If you want to create a key on frame other than 0 that frame MUST be selected in the time line. It is much faster to type in the frame number in the animation controls at the bottom to skip around the animation. You can also shrink the time line so you don't have as far to scroll.

 

There is a time line that "shows it all". The time line connected to the PWS. Robcat mentioned it in the post above your last post. It will list all the bones and you can see all the keys for each bone.

 

Maybe you should stop this project for a while. Put it aside and do the TAoA:M exercises. They are "progressive" they build on each other. You learn new things with each tutorial. Each one builds from what you learned in the last one. The steps are the same for EVERYONE and since it is written down you can get the exact specific help you need from those who are familiar with them as you work through them. Trust me from what I've seen on this forum those exercises work. You have a whole bunch of people all doing the same thing. Lots of people to compare notes with.

 

-vern

[Rodney]

You said you read the manual. Have you done any of the TAoA:M exercises?

Maybe you should stop this project for a while. Put it aside and do the TAoA:M exercises. They are "progressive" they build on each other.

 

Vern is right of course.

 

By the time you get to Exercise 6 you will have a good understanding of how to make those characters work.

 

I'll be working through TaoA:M in 2008 so here's your chance to get a head start on me.

[Squoosh]

O.K, I shall take your advice and go through the tutorials. I have read them but I guess I was a little impatient, and I thought they were too specific. But I will give them a go. Thank you all for your help so far.

 

I can assure you, 3D animation is significantly more difficult than unicycling!

[Squoosh]

O.K, I shall take your advice and go through the tutorials. I have read them but I guess I was a little impatient, and I thought they were too specific. But I will give them a go. Thank you all for your help so far.

 

I can assure you, 3D animation is significantly more difficult than unicycling!

 

 

 

 

Oh by the way, that movie finally uploaded, here it is please watch + offer feedback sorry for the diabolical quality, it's the video capture software not AM.

 

By the way how do you create a new project? I can create a new choreography, but that seems to create it within another project.

Screen_Record.mov

[Rodney]

3D animation is significantly more difficult than unicycling!

 

Yikes! I hope not!

 

(Looking at your animation now)

 

Edit: Hmmm... Quicktime doesn't open your file. Perhaps more trouble on my end?

[Squoosh]

no it's me, it doesnt work with me either

[Squoosh]

I guess i'll... um... i don't know.

 

 

Anyway, to clear things up, unicyling took 1 week of 45 mins a day. This, as you can see from the length of this thread and the fact I have been trying on and off for a year, has been a lot longer.

[Squoosh]

I know im going off on a bit of a tangent but...

 

Here is proof that unicycling is easier than animation. (im the guy unicycling by the way)

Uni_Will.mov

[Rodney]

Forgive me if I leave the unicycling to you, k?

If I just animate someone unicycling I won't have to recover from the scratches, bruises and broken bones.

Looks like a lot of fun though.

[Squoosh]

Very true! I'm currently on tutorial 3

[heyvern]

A project is the "whole thing". All the models, actions, choreographies etc are stored either embedded or "linked" to external files inside a project. You can only have one project open at a time. A choreography, or model, or action etc, exists within a project. You can have as many of those as you want.

 

AM by default will launch with the last project you had open unless you change this in the prefs.

 

If you want to create a new project you go to the menu and select "New Project".

 

-vern

[Squoosh]

I have completed 'take a walk' and posted the render on the forums