Having Problems with Copy/Flip/Attach

[Noganite]

Well here is the deal. I am building a plane and since it is semetrical I am building half. I want to copy/flip/attach in order to make the process of building it faster and to keep it semetrical. When I use that command I get a gap in the center. I made sure everything on Rotate/Translate was set to 0 on the side im CFA-ing to. Please help me as I do need to get this done

 

Sincerely,

 

Noganite

[Fishman]

Make sure that all the CPs of the spline that you are symmetrical about to do CFA is located on the y-axis.

 

Scott

[KenH]

You most probably have a spline/cp that's just over the central line....you may need to zoom in. It's most likely located at the ends of the plane.

[Noganite]

You most probably have a spline/cp that's just over the central line....you may need to zoom in. It's most likely located at the ends of the plane.

 

Ok, I sort-of understood what you ment and had seen that the plane half was over the X-Axis line so I moved it back away from it and still got the same gap. I was wondering if you could illustrate how to do this copy/flip/attach thing. I dont have my manual with me cause its 70 miles away at my sis's LOL ! Thank you for your help.

 

Edit: I have also looked for any video tutorial on how to do it and I didnt find one. Would be nice if Exercise 11 had a tutorial because I am a visual learner and I believe it has people use the CFA command.

[dre4mer]

Here threw together a demonstration for you... It's a flash movie. SWF. I zipped it. Apparently you can't upload SWF files..

 

-Ethan

 

MirrorFlip.zip

[Caroline]

The way I've been doing it:

 

First step - very important - Save the Project and model!

 

1. Click the central spline.

2. Press the comma , key to select the whole spline.

3. On the top toolbar, click on Show Manipulator Properties.

4. Click the Scale manipulator.

5. Change the X scale to 0% - this aligns along the x axis. I also changed the X pivot to 0 - This step is supposed to be unnecessary, but I did it as part of my ritual.

6. Select the left half of the model up to and including the central spline.

7. Press Ctrl C to copy.

8. Press Ctrl A to select all

9. Press Delete to delete all.

10. Press Ctrl V to paste.

11. Shift click the middle spline.

12. Right click and Copy/Flip/Attach.

 

At first, the C/F/A would work easily, and as the model got more complicated, I had to search for more tricks. Eventually I ended up doing all of these things, in sequence - didn't take long.

 

Edit: I should mention that steps 7, 8, 9 and 10 were only to delete the right half of the model - if you only have half a model to start with, you don't need to do that!

[Noganite]

The way I've been doing it:

 

First step - very important - Save the Project and model!

 

1. Click the central spline.

2. Press the comma , key to select the whole spline.

3. On the top toolbar, click on Show Manipulator Properties.

4. Click the Scale manipulator.

5. Change the X scale to 0% - this aligns along the x axis. I also changed the X pivot to 0 - This step is supposed to be unnecessary, but I did it as part of my ritual.

6. Select the left half of the model up to and including the central spline.

7. Press Ctrl C to copy.

8. Press Ctrl A to select all

9. Press Delete to delete all.

10. Press Ctrl V to paste.

11. Shift click the middle spline.

12. Right click and Copy/Flip/Attach.

 

At first, the C/F/A would work easily, and as the model got more complicated, I had to search for more tricks. Eventually I ended up doing all of these things, in sequence - didn't take long.

 

Edit: I should mention that steps 7, 8, 9 and 10 were only to delete the right half of the model - if you only have half a model to start with, you don't need to do that!

Uhm, well, I dont know why, but it still does the same thing. I tried all the steps except 7, 8, 9, and 10 since I have only half a model to begin with. at this point im ready to give up.

[Rodney]

I believe everyone may be thinking too hard on this one.

 

Test Copy/Flip/Attach on a simple model... a grid for instance.

Then once you understand the process try it on more complex models.

 

Example:

Create a grid (Use the Grid Wizard or make it manually)

Grab the whole grid

Hold down the SHIFT key while selecting a spline on the side you want to flip on.

Right Click > Copy/Flip/Attach

 

You can C/F/A upward, downward, right, left... wherever... just as long as you SHIFT select appropriately prior to selecting C/F/A.

 

The thing you'll have to consider on more complicated models is how aligned the splines are along the axis where the flip will occur. As has been mentioned using the scale manipulator can fix this pretty easily.

 

If the mesh isn't built well for C/F/A purposes you'll get a bad result.

You can get some pretty good C/F/A however even with CPs and Splines not being lined up.

[UNGLAUBLICHUSA]

<_ try this as it has worked for me:>

 

Sometimes during modelling you may accidentally move 1 or more points (or the whole model) slightly off of "0". Select your middle spline, go to wireframe mode and zoom in till your eyes bleed. This way you can see if you need to tweak points on the center spline. Go point by point to ensure all are lined up and I also reccomend at this point to check the bias on your center splines.

[Ganthofer]

Make sure you do not have Mirror Mode on. You can get really strange results, especially along the zero axis.

[Rodney]

Somebody please post examples of models they'd like to Copy/Flip/Attach.

Simple ones... complex... the more the better.

 

I think we can kill this one dead if we run it through its paces and nail down the process.

 

Copy/Flip/Attach won't always work due to mesh layouts but it works a whole lot better than its being described here.

With some examples I think it'll be pretty easy to demonstrate.

[Noganite]

Somebody please post examples of models they'd like to Copy/Flip/Attach.

Simple ones... complex... the more the better.

 

I think we can kill this one dead if we run it through its paces and nail down the process.

 

Copy/Flip/Attach won't always work due to mesh layouts but it works a whole lot better than its being described here.

With some examples I think it'll be pretty easy to demonstrate.

 

Ok I dont understand what you are talking about with this mesh thing so, uhm, anyhow, here are a few views of what I am doing in addition to trying the setting the X to 0 thing. Ok what you see is the plane half then a front view and a left view. Next is changing the X to zero before and after pics.

[JavierP]

Somebody please post examples of models they'd like to Copy/Flip/Attach.

Simple ones... complex... the more the better.

 

I think we can kill this one dead if we run it through its paces and nail down the process.

 

Copy/Flip/Attach won't always work due to mesh layouts but it works a whole lot better than its being described here.

With some examples I think it'll be pretty easy to demonstrate.

 

Ok I dont understand what you are talking about with this mesh thing so, uhm, anyhow, here are a few views of what I am doing in addition to trying the setting the X to 0 thing. Ok what you see is the plane half then a front view and a left view. Next is changing the X to zero before and after pics.

 

Your problems stem from the fact that you have patches connecting the top and bottom of your center spline. Break the connecting splines, so that the center of the plane will be "hollow" when it is Copy/Flip/Attached. It should work correctly. Hope this idea helps.

 

 

Javier

[Rodney]

Javier nailed that one for you.

[Caroline]

I'm grateful that you've raised this topic, because my model was no longer C/F/A-ing, and it's prompted me to work out why, and now it is.

 

Javier, of course, is absolutely right. That's why I do steps 6-10 in my list, because if you select the right half and press the delete key, you get those connecting splines, whereas if you select the left side and do a copy of the left side, delete all, then paste, you don't get those connecting splines.

 

Looking at your pictures, before you C/F/A, you need to have all your points on one side of the Y axis. The central spline needs to be on the Y axis. My model had stopped working, because my central spline had got split into two, and while I was lining each of them up separately, I had to line them up together at the same time, and now it works.

 

You will probably have a problem with the pointy bit in the front (you can tell how much I know about aeroplanes) - I had a tail that came to a point, and because it's hard to choose one half in that situation, I removed the pointy end of the tail completely before C/F/A.

[Noganite]

I'm grateful that you've raised this topic, because my model was no longer C/F/A-ing, and it's prompted me to work out why, and now it is.

 

Javier, of course, is absolutely right. That's why I do steps 6-10 in my list, because if you select the right half and press the delete key, you get those connecting splines, whereas if you select the left side and do a copy of the left side, delete all, then paste, you don't get those connecting splines.

 

Looking at your pictures, before you C/F/A, you need to have all your points on one side of the Y axis. The central spline needs to be on the Y axis. My model had stopped working, because my central spline had got split into two, and while I was lining each of them up separately, I had to line them up together at the same time, and now it works.

 

You will probably have a problem with the pointy bit in the front (you can tell how much I know about aeroplanes) - I had a tail that came to a point, and because it's hard to choose one half in that situation, I removed the pointy end of the tail completely before C/F/A.

 

LOL Caroline ! Thank you guys for your help I think it will work just fine I just need to straighten the side that is ment to be flat and then I will try it but I belive I understand now. If it doesnt work ill post what I did to see where I went wrong.

[Noganite]

I am happy to report that CFA worked very well after I redid parts of the model and made sure it was, for the most part, straight! What you see here is the model mirrored (it has gone through drastic change indeed ) and a pic of the model against the roto-scope .Thank you guys (and gal) again!

[Caroline]

Lookin' good, Noganite (not that I'd know much about flying machines). Only one thing - the normals on the top of the plane look as if they're pointing in, which may lead to surfacing troubles later on. You'll need to patch select, and do right click > Flip Normals (or press F key). (Just in case they are annoying you, you can also turn the normal pointers off in Tools Menu > Options > Modelling tab > Display Normals untick.)

[Noganite]

Lookin' good, Noganite (not that I'd know much about flying machines). Only one thing - the normals on the top of the plane look as if they're pointing in, which may lead to surfacing troubles later on. You'll need to patch select, and do right click > Flip Normals (or press F key). (Just in case they are annoying you, you can also turn the normal pointers off in Tools Menu > Options > Modelling tab > Display Normals untick.)

 

Awesome-ness, thanks! Yeah I was wondering what the pink fuzzies were all about

[Noganite]

When I am done with this project I plan on it to be fully animated with partical effects, motion blur, the whole nine yards. How much would one charge for a project like that? It is for a commercial.

[Noganite]

Well, I have redone about 90% of the model and added the elevators and alerons! I, as you can see, am working on the tail and soon will be working on the cockpit.