Animation master modelling.

[teh1ghool]

Okay so I'm modelling my thing. I've gotten started on putting insides, but I accidentally make a wrong few splines and when I delete them there's still one spline left following the same path as the one already there connecting other splines. I can't deelete this withought screwing up my model. And sometimes I just want to delete other things and it screws up there too. It deletes whole areas of my model from just deleting one vertice. How do I delete it w/o doing thart? How do I delete individual spline segments?

 

Also I'm having through with undoing in the modeller. It alwways goes back a couple steps on the same step I just did and starts to deform it and mess it up. So I have to try to delete it instead of undoing my add, and when I do that there's a few splines always that leave creases and that i can't delete.

 

 

Help?

[KenH]

We'd really need to see screen shots. Or if you can replicate it, send it into AM:Reports.

[Dhar]

One spline has two control points, each CP controls the end of the spline closest to it. When a CP is controling 4 splines and you only want to delete a specific spline connected to it, click on the spline closest to it that you need to delete (the spline will have a green hi-lite).

 

Hope this helps.

[teh1ghool]

I realized that, and that's not changing anything really. I get the ssame effect, if not then worse. If it helps, i'm using 12.0 n+. I'll see if I can get some screenshots in n a few.

[heyvern]

Select the CP intersection and hit "Shift K".

 

What happens is if you have several intersections and delete the one point sometimes you delete more than you need or delete the "wrong" CP.

 

"Shift K" breaks the CPs if they are connected and not continuous. You may want to keep "breaking" that intersection and then you can pull out the CP's to see which one you really need to delete. You would be looking for the end CP of a spline. If you delete a CP along a continuous spline you will effect areas you hadn't planned on.

 

Alternately you could select the CP you want to "remove" and insert CPs around it using the "Y" key on the splines. Then select the splines between the CP you want to delete and the "new" CP and use "K" to break that spline.

 

Also before deleting a CP select the spline and hit "," to see how the spline is related to the model. This will tell you sometimes how deleting it might "damage" other areas.

 

I use this technique if I get into a situation where I am not exactly sure how things are connected and need to change things drastically.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[teh1ghool]

That answers my first question! Thanks! Bt the stupid undoo still freaks out. My AM needsa be fixed so I'm not able to go on it at the moment.

[heyvern]

The undo is not broken.

 

That is how it works. There is a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. Depending on what you did last there could be a lot of things in the undo "buffer".

 

I find that the undo works fine when I am moving CPs... it works for deleting... it works fine for most things. I tend to avoid going waaaay back... but even then it still works... for me anyway. I have never had trouble with the undo...

 

Sometimes new users take some getting use to it.

 

Have you ever run a complex action in Photoshop? You can't "undo" it. It undoes the last thing in the "script" of the PS action.

 

This is what may happen sometimes in AM. If you do a process that has to do a lot of steps to complete... those steps are in the undo buffer...

 

If you plan to do something "drastic" to your model... save it first. Or do a save as with a different name...

 

Then if you really have to go back a bunch of steps you just revert.

 

After learning the process of AM and how it works... you start to get into the mindset of the application and learn these "tricks". As time passes and you gain experience it becomes second nature.

 

You shouldn't rely on the undo too much in any application...

 

of course... I was an artist before the computer... there was no undo when the airbrush spits water on 3 days of work.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[teh1ghool]

No, that's not the problem with it. I think it may be broken. I deleted the tail of my atmospheric shuttle and it left a spline and I didn't know how to fix it so i undid it and it just started deforming the entire model and the farther I went back the more it deformed. It started to attach the tail vertices to the front vertices and never went how I wanted it. It's broken i think. It's always doing this with me.

[teh1ghool]

Okay, so here's what i did.

 

I started with my shape. Then I added the vertical stablizer in. As you can see in Picture 1, it looks ok kinda. But then I realized it wasn't 3d and it wasn't how I wanted it to be so I tried to undo the 4 or 5 steps it took me and leek what happens after just a couple undos. It gets worse the more I undo until it doesn't undo anymore.

[heyvern]

As I said before... depending on how you connected the splines... AM keeps the different "steps" that you went through in the undo buffer.

 

It looks like you stitched splines onto closed patches... which would create internal patches which is not good.

 

It could be that one of the CPs got connected to a dead end spline from the front of the model... this created a continuous spline... undo may not disconnect those splines the same way you created it. So as the undo "deletes" the CPs you added... it is deleting the "wrong ones". The mesh is based on splines which are numbered and CPs of each spline which are numbered. If as you undo those numbers get mixed up... which they could given the complexity of the modeling process... you get unexpected results.

 

Hard to tell from these screen grabs since we can't see it from above where you connected the tail stabilizer.

 

Anyway... undoing all of those steps would be really pushing your luck. You would be best off figuring out how they are attached in the first place and deleting by hand.

 

If it were me... I would never try to undo that far back... I would just break the splines delete the section and start again from there. Or revert back to an older version.

 

Undo works. But if you connect a lot of splines in... "odd" ways... the undo might... undo a connection... then... delete the wrong CP... because they were both in the exact same place after being connected... that is how I interpret this behavior when it happens to me.

 

I would suggest you go back and break splines to get close to what you started with. You haven't gone too far with this model... that spot at the end should be an easy fix... just break those splines and recreate it. It will be better time spent. Even the spline that is "messed up" could be fixed without a lot of effort.

 

Don't spend anymore time worrying about "fixing" the undo. It works the way it works... it may seem different than other applications but that is the nature of the beast.

 

One tip: when you use the undo... deselect any CPs first ... then use undo. I get WAY better results that way. Sometimes undo doesn't even work at all until I deselect everything in the model window.

 

Remember... you can't rely 100% on undo in any application. It can become a crutch. In AM this is not the best way to work.

 

Your best bet would be to save a version of the model BEFORE adding a huge section on to it or making drastic changes. You should get into the habit of saving model versions anyway... it is a good practice. If you get to a point and you feel good about it... save a version with a different number after the name... then make some changes... if you don't like it... you can just open the old one.

 

You should do all the lessons in the book that came with AM... it helps explain how patches are formed and what is an internal patch etc.

 

Don't focus on the undo... if this is the most work you have "lost"... well... I have INTENTIONALLY deleted and started over on much larger more complicated sections... it is all part of the learning process.

 

Undo is very helpful... but it shouldn't be used as a "revert" button.

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[teh1ghool]

Ah, thanks, but I still think I can rely on wings 3d's undo because you don't add new vertices like in A:M but instead add shapes and transform them with extrudes and more. Anyways, wings3d is the only way I can make it with the sinside of my paceship too, so that's what I'm doing. I also like how it's autosmoothes too. It's perfect for the game I'm making.

 

How do I make hard edges?

[heyvern]

AM is not Wings3D... are you asking how to make hard edges in AM?

 

Select the CP and press "P".

 

You can ask for help about AM... but I don't use Wings3D because... I could never figure out how to use it... too complicated. I spent HOURS trying just trying to zoom and center the model in my workspace.... so I could care less about Wings3D.

 

It is comparing apples to oranges. they are two completely different methodologies in 3D... polygons... Hash splines.

 

Go to the Wings3d forum and ask them why it doesn't have a better bone constraint system like AM... or why it's animation tools aren't easier... or why it doesn't have reusable actions... or organic modeling... or hair... or spriticles... or...

 

Vernon "!" Zehr

[teh1ghool]

That's not what I was saying. Wings is actually rly easy. Middle click activates the cam and then you use the middle to move it around and zoom and left to exit cam mode. And to edit stuff it's all rightclick. But this isn't wings forum so this discussion is over. Now, about A:M. Thanks for that shortcut. And I know wings is far less superior to A:M, but then again, for the time being I'm only modelling plain shapes in A:M then exporting to wings to uv map, texture and export to a format my game can support. I'll probably use A:M for opening video and credits and rendering a really nice scene for teh background or something. I love A:M's modeller and stuff because you can go inside and make stuff and show/hide and I also rly rly like the renderer and all the stuff you can do in it! Definately worth the money that payed for it. I can't wait to get into some of the rly cool little details that make a big difference.

 

I have another question:

Does a better video card improve render speeds? Or is that CPU speed?

[oakchas]

Ryan,

 

What Vern's trying to say here is that you need to have a bit more patience.

 

Have you done any of the excercises in The Art of Animation:Master?

 

A:M is not like what you are used to. You need to learn it's way of working if you are going to work in it. Corel Painter does not work like Photoshop... And Macs don't work like PC's...

 

There is an excellent tutorial in the book about modeling an airplane from a rotoscope... if you delete the rotoscope you will have a fuselage and a vertical stabilizer and wings just like (or similarto) the ship you are trying to model.

 

There is no instant solution to what you are trying to LEARN to do... You have to learn it... Sorry, it's just like school. Getting good grades means you understand the subject. If you get A's in history, you may not get A's in math.

 

We are here to try and help you. But, that doesn't mean we can make it work like you want it to.

 

Does a better video card improve render speeds? Or is that CPU speed?

CPU speed and memory (RAM, not HDD) will affect render time.

 

Video card increases display rate,refresh, etc. on the finished product.

[teh1ghool]

Okay, thanks. I know exactly what you mean. I don't hve much patience, but what i'm doing right now is asking questions to learn. Now I have another!

 

How do I select a spline between two points to delete that only? I attached some to the wrong points.

[oakchas]

How do I select a spline between two points to delete that only? I attached some to the wrong points.

 

If it is a spline between two cps, click on the spline you want to delete near the cp. About 1/2 the spline will turn green. click on the break spline button on the tool bar or use the keyboard shortcut.

 

Wow! you sure finished that tutorial quick!

[teh1ghool]

Oh yeah. I'm a fst learner! Thanks! I actually didn't build the model but just watched all the movie tuts and I remember pretty much everything and I could easily build the stuff on my own now. Just the thing is there were no mistakes in the tuts so I need help fixing mistakes I did. Thanks everyone!

[Fuchur]

Select the Spline you want to delete / the part of the spline between two points you want to delete.

The Point next to the part you selected should be selected now and if you look carefully the spline should be selected too.

 

Now hit the "break"-Button. (Search for it at the right side of the modelling window, other buttons there are "Add", "Peak", etc. Search for the break-button and click on it)

Now the spline you selected should be separated in two parts and the part you selected from the original spline shouldnt be there anymore.

 

Wings is a Box-Modelling-Polygone-Application, A:M is a Patch-Modelling-Spline-Application... so you cant really compare the both... that is like comparing an apple and a orange. But if you get more familar with A:M, you wont want to model in Wings anymore. A:M is more precise in the end, because you dont have to smooth at the end, which isnt very controlable. But in the end, there are advantages and disadvantges on both sites. I like A:M's modelling technique more...

 

*Fuchur*

[luckbat]

If it's a valid spline, you can select it by clicking on it, and then remove it by hitting 'K.'

[KenH]

If undo freaks out again (which it sometimes does with me too) just go up to Edit>Redo and it will go back to the "unfreaked stage". You'll have to work your way back manually from there.

[Slipin Lizard]

Ryan, Animation Master's spline modeling is almost counter-intuitive if you're coming from a box modeling program like Wing 3D. I started with Maya, and found AM difficult to learn as far as the modeling went. There were a number of things that I did that made modeling in AM much easier, and that changed my mind to the opinion that AM is a better, easier way of modeling:

 

-I focused on nothing but modeling for a while. Just tried to make simple, clean models.

 

-I bought a book by David Rogers called "Animation Master: 2002, A Complete Guide". The first few chapters about modeling are excellent, and contained information that I wished I'd known when I first started.

 

-I got the Anzovin "Quick Start 2" CD. Again, info here was great. You asked how do you select the spline inbetween the CP's... did you know you can click a CP, and then by pressing tab cycle through the different splines on each side of the CP? Makes it a lot easier somtimes. Tons of good info on that CD.

 

-I practiced modeling, and found like Vern says, that as I got to be a better modeler, the program seemed less "broken".

 

-I looked at some of the primitives that come with the program, and copied them until I understood how they were made.

 

When people come to AM from another program, particularly one that is based on box modeling, they often struggle a bit because patch modeling is so different. Once they get used to AM though, they are usually pretty happy. Go to the showcase forum and check out some of the work that gets displayed there.

 

Finally, just a reminder that this is a community forum, and people like to help each other out. I think Vern was trying to help you, and you kinda went on about how great Wing3D is and then shut him down ("this discussion is over"). This is a forum where we like to tread a little more lightly, so go easy, ok? Make the commitment to understanding how patch modeling works, and I'll bet you'll never want to use anything else.

[Paul Forwood]

Select one end of the spline that you want to remove and them hit the 'K' key to break the spline at that point. If nothing appears to happen the cp at that point is probably already disconnected and all you need to do is press 'Delete' to remove the cp and the spline.

 

Edit: How strange!? When I answered this question, yesterday, there were no other responses! What's that about?

[Sacman]

I did not know that tab will cycle through cp's. Amazing what can be learned trolling these boards. I agree with Ken though. I will some times have an unusual undo. I have learned for the most part when to use and when not to use it but when it does happen, I redo and then manually backup.

 

Wade