itsjustme

I couldn't tell without seeing the model...I'm not sure exactly what you mean, Jake.

I found out during the arm rigging that I needed to make some modeling adjustments to the biceps and shoulders...I also re-did the rigging for them. I should have done more checking before this point, but I think it's better now. Hopefully, I'll have a test clip tomorrow...unless I run into something else, again.

Anything is fine in moderation, the difficult thing is knowing when things are necessary. Very experienced modelers have had problems using bias adjustments so that they will work when a character moves.

Thanks guys. I found a minor thing in the rig to fix this evening while working on Bertram's arm weighting...not a big thing, but worth a quick mention if anyone wants to update an existing installation. The biceps should slightly flex when the wrists are rotated, the parenting on a couple of bones/nulls need to be changed for it to work properly. The "right/left_bicep_muscle_target_limiter", "right/left_bicep_muscle_limit_target", "right/left_bicep_muscle_target_limiter_base" should be children of the "right/left_bicep_muscle_base" bone. I'm going to finish up the arm and upper torso weighting tomorrow and should have another test clip if I don't run into anything else.

but that's true of anything in CG, not just bias adjustments. Sure. In about 99% of the instances that I have run across...one that wasn't the case sticks out in my head at the moment. That one was an experienced modeler trying to add a crease in a muscle...it looked good static, but didn't work in movement. That small of an adjustment could work. The adjustments I've had to deal with were not generally that small. Possibly...I haven't come across an instance where I've had to try it though. Good spline layout is going to do the job in almost all cases...in every case of modeling I've come across so far, at least. You never know though, so I'll leave the qualifier in there. I think the only time I might resort to bias adjustment (other than top of the head, teeth, finger nails, finger tips, edge of the nose, eye, ear, or some other non-moving part) would be if I couldn't change the spline layout (the character already being textured or something) on someone else's model or if I was aiming for a very low spline count. On my own models, I go for the most squashing and stretching ability I can get...I like having options. That means that I'm going to be pushing and pulling CP's in all kinds of directions and the modeling has to hold up under it. It's also one of the reasons I use CP Weighting 99.99% of the time and avoid Smartskin except in very rare circumstances. The biggest thing I want to avoid is giving an inexperienced modeler/rigger the impression that tweaking biases whenever they run into a problem is the way to go.

Hmmm, you're right about it not being locked down, Robert. However, if bias tweaking is used in a bending joint, it's going to cause problems if not done correctly...and I have run into none that were done correctly in the models I have rigged (almost as frustrating as having the model already textured). I still think you are safer avoiding bias tweaking in areas that will move quite a bit in the vast majority of cases. There may be modelers that have the ability to use bias tweaking in a "rigging friendly" manner, but I haven't encountered them yet.

That's the "rule of thumb" I use. Generally true, Caroline...there are some things to think about here though. If you use any bias tweaking on the fingers to reduce the number of splines and round them up, you'll have to make the bases of the fingers a little different so that the five-point patches look right (check Squetchy Sam's fingers...they weren't made with that in mind, the only concern was low spline count) and you couldn't squish the fingers while animating realistically very easily. Absolutely. Exactly, the bias tweaking would interfere with rigging the stomach area and give you un-natural movement.

Let's say you adjust a bias to cause a crease for some reason, that crease is not going to go away when that area is flexed...if anything, it will become more pinched. The part of the spline that is adjusted will maintain exactly the adjustment that you model in there...it won't look natural in most areas (other than the places I mentioned in a previous post in this thread). I have rigged quite a few models that have made liberal use of bias tweaking...in every case, I had to remove that tweaking (and either re-model sections or move things around as much as I could when the model had already been textured) in order to get good looking movement. I've seen quite a few people attempt to use bias tweaking to overcome bad modeling. Using it sparingly, and in only the appropriate areas, is the way to go...at least in my mind. Your mileage may vary.

Can you show an example that does this consistently? I've seen this sometimes but it went away after saving and reopening the model. Here is an example Project and a short video clip of what happens when the CP's are moved around. bias_example_project.prj bias_example.mov

It appears to work alright, but that's the movement that I need to reassure myself about. I need to finish the CP Weighting on the upper torso to be sure that everything will work as well as I think it will.

I think it looks great, Heiner. I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.

Thanks, guys. I've still got a few things to tweak...I also want to make sure it doesn't break too easily. You're going to laugh when you see what's driving it, Mark...it's very simple. I originally started with a lot more complex setup and then figured out I didn't need most of it. I'm hoping to get it in a condition to send you an example in the next couple of days...I need to reassure myself about a few movements.

I'm not what I would consider a "real" modeler, but I've done a modest amount of it. For organic models, I use very little bias tweaking...and only in areas that don't move or move very little. The reason is that the tweaked bias will maintain its' position as it is moved. It won't pop, but it also won't move like an untweaked bias. Sometimes that isn't a problem, but in a lot of areas it is. If the model is purely for a still image, then the tweaking won't matter. For an average human character, I tweak the bias in the eye (there's a link to my eye making tutorial in my signature), teeth, ear, sometimes the top of the skull, finger nails, tips of the fingers and I generally reduce the percentages along the edge of the nose to get a slight crease. For mechanical models, I tweak the bias quite a bit...also on parts that don't need to bend, but that (bending parts) is more rare in mechanical models. Hope that helps, Caroline.

I'm still tinkering with it, but I figured I should show where I'm at with the gut rig. Here is a quick clip showing how it presently works...there are still a few things that I need to do further testing on and some CP Weighting needs fixing. Bertram_gut_test1_Sorenson3.mov

Joe Williamson's "Hunter" is a stylized human, but it might give you an idea of what you could do. There are several animations: Hunter dynamics test Hunter motion capture Hunter forest (this one uses Hunter composited into live action video) Hunter dances Hunter motion matching test (this one also has Hunter composited into live action video) Hope that helps.

I've gotten the gut portion of the gut rig worked out, but I'm still working on the love handle portion. Hopefully, I'll get that worked out tonight so that I can show an example video. Sorry for taking so long to post, I wanted to have a decent visual...I'm not that far away from one, I think.

There are four "dead-end" splines that I have marked in red...there are a lot of other things that need to be tweaked, but that is the source of the sharp edges. Hope that helps.

For the face rig in the Squetch Rig, the solution was another layer of bones with "aim at" constraints in the "Blink" Poses...I don't know if that will work for this situation, but I thought I would mention it in case it does. It's looking fantastic, Mark!

Looks great so far, Heiner!

You are a scary man, Stian!

I returned to my normal work schedule a few days ago after three weeks with no time off from my job...I haven't had any free time, unfortunately. I started looking at the gut rig again last night and have done some revising. Sorry for the lack of updates, I'm going to have more time now, so I should get a lot done soon.

Very cool, Mark!

Squetchy Sam is completely rigged, including facial Poses...he's free to use for anything you want. Making and rigging your own characters is really the way to go, that way you get exactly what you want. Until you get to that point, Sam might be helpful to you.

Looks great, Mark & Mark!

It would definitely speed up the response on extremely complex rigs.