Rodney

I don't think I had better mess with music although it'd be a fun exercise. I'd say that for music you are in similar territory as those color tests... each character has a musical theme of their own. For this purpose, the environment is a character also. 'Gravediggers Theme' would be what... a slow, wistful chant of a tune? I almost get the feeling he'd just say, "This sure isn't your average Disney musical." 'Cleopatra' would be more pomp and circumstance (perhaps with crashing cymbals when she goes into a rant) 'Latimer's Song' wistful and wandering. 'Nora's Theme' confident and reliable. Franky's Song like a divine comedy. (Although the origin story lead in would be one of drama and tragedy) Edgar's lively and attentive (if in any way associated with poetry) and otherwise somber Death's Song: Fearful and Loud (but elements are stripped from it to play out the earliest stanzas as calm and content) I'll see if I can dream up any solutions. Must sleep for now...

Rough is good. You are off to a good start. You'd be able to take what you've got here and run with it as a general purpose trailer. But if it's a general purpose trailer you're going to want to follow it up with additional trailers. A few things I would definitely add: A few longer pauses at choice points in the dialogue will give Gravedigger a chance to perform some action... or move from here to there... wipe his nose... something in tandem with the dialogue to engage the audience... to entertain... to captivate. I'd say you should emphasis Gravedigger's voice more at key words or phrases (you've got this going on pretty good but I think there needs to be some tension in his voice.. or a growing sense of urgency... a sense that what he is describing is real. That feeling is building up from the moment we are introduced to Gravedigger and it's only interrupted by the inopportune appearance of the skeleton. I think , "Tourists." could use considerably more emphasis. I'd say he could even say it sarcastically (as I believe he does with Latimer in the movie?)... his non-verbals are telling us something, perhaps 'how dare you interrupt me right in the middle of my speech you stupid tourist. This (or whatever is on his mind) we primarily see only in the form of his words, "Tourists." and his actions are then dictated by the words he says. I assume here that he then laughs at his own action (that of stuffing the skeleton back into it's coffin... 'serves him right for interrupting me') and not that of the appearance of a skeleton that is simply not Latimer. If anything I think he might be rather disappointed that it wasn't Latimer. (But I didn't get the sense that he was looking for him in the script. Latimer just seemed to be another soul passing to the Land of the Dead there. Who is Latimer that Gravedigger should know him?) My primary thought at this point would be to look at each cut in this trailer sequence and determine the motivating factor behind that cut. Why does the camera cut away from the first shot... Gravedigger does something and/or says something important there. Why does the camera cut to the panorama... Gravedigger is trying to show us something important there. Why is he telling us of the troubles with Cleopatra... perhaps he's leading up to why the Land of the Dead needs a Latimer. He's interrupted just as he's about to tell us about Latimer... " We are robbed of some very important information here. Gravedigger's response, "I know Latimer and you are (definitely) not Latimer." The awkwardness of this is that in watching this trailer we still haven't a clue as to what is really going on in this film (although we think we might have seen a hint of it in the panorama and with that mad lady that must be Cleopatra). If we blinked we probably missed Gravedigger saying the name "Latimer". I'd suggest livelier music (epic score stuff) during the two inserted scenes (for panorama and Cleopatra), Since they are only a few seconds it'll only need to be a few beats. And of course Foley throughout (I really missed that sound of Gravedigger bonking the skeleton... how could you leave that out!). Whew... this is difficult to dissect so go easy on me here! You know the story but we in the audience are on the outside looking in still trying to figure everything out. And we've only had a few seconds to do that. If continuing 'as is' perhaps a quick series of still images (ala Marvel comics intro to their movies) at the beginning and/or the end, might give the audience a glimpse of other interesting characters and situations in the movie. Of course the problem there is that those would have to be created and I'd guess that you'd need at least 12 shots at a minimum. To answer your specific questions: Is the timing good? I few more pauses at critical points (one primarily) Is the dialogue working? I'd like to see more emphasis on some words and accents (i.e. what does Gravedigger really think about Cleopatra. This should come across in his voice even if in only a subtle way) Conversely, how does he feel about Latimer? He seems to know who Latimer is I don't any of that is conveyed when he says the name "Latimer'. Is the music good? A bit hard to hear and didn't seem quite appropriate as the trailer continued. (i.e. Cleopatra's tantrum) But... as an intro and general background music. It works for me! That's my first look at it. It's a lot easier to critique than to create, so kudos to you. You've got a really solid breakdown for a first rough draft. Keep that pace up and you'll soon have a movie!

He's awesome! You are getting really good at this. When you left his legs off... I couldn't resist... (ignore me, I'm just enjoying your modeling) Edit: Ooooh. You posted his legs before I got a chance to finish here. I was hoping you'd go for the extra small legs.

That looks great! Approaching perfecton I'd say.

Nice. I like him!

Thought I'd test a few Boolean cutters on a gravestone to chip off edges and engrave text. Using both Boolean cutters and added text where appropriate will give some nice differentiation on the various tombstones. The dirt was something of a surprise. It consists of just a brown surface color with Ambiance, Roughness, Roughness Scale and Specularity. It wouldn't work as well for moving dirt but might work pretty well for dirt that stays in place. I used a concrete decal for the tombstone but that almost isn't needed. Once the decal was applied I experimented with the Surface properties until it resembled the decal closely. As such the decal is mostly transparent and used to add another layer of texture. The more we can live without decals the better I say. Then we can focus on where they are really needed. In the attached I was moving toward the look of where a flashlight or lantern might be shining on letters of a tombstone in order to read it.

I was messin around with some lighting and decided to play with a few color tests. Have you given much thought to assigning each character a color? While it might be a big stereotypical for a villian I think Cleopatra would look really good in reds. Here are some quick color tests for consideration regarding the view outward from the graveyard (It seems to me that your story would work very well in grey tones throughout layered over with the colors that emphasize each character. The blending of different character colors could make for some colorful scenes). For instance, one of Edgar's primary colors might be brown (color of wood, cover of a book, comfort of a warm fire in the Raven) Death might be mostly white and black with an emphasis on the white at the beginning of the story and an emphasis on black at the end. Franky... hard to see anything else but grays and greens but the story would allow the character to break away from that (a sponge and a mishmash... collecting colors from everything). Latimer I see is already blue. Perhaps Nora wear light browns and blues to better mix with him. Moving on but had been thinking about colors so was experimenting...

In the interim I created a quick banner based on your image over at Amazon. If you post a banner I'll update it. So the pressure is off. The (current) special topic forums/banners can be seen here: http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showforum=183

I've made a few minor changes above and crossed 'Name is Gravedigger' out in lieu of your feedback. The downside of my adaption of your proposal (above) is that I've inserted some expensive shots: specifically the Panoramic View of Land of Dead and Cleopatra's Tantrum with Cowering Servants. That might still be doable given six months to work with and it'd help produce assets for the film itself. Also, the panoramic view could mostly be a 2D painted backdrop in the far background. Sleep well Lloyd.

Added: Thanks for the conversion! Give me some time to consider your email. At first glance I'd say it is sufficiently different that I wouldn't mix much between this one and that. Here's my rationale. In this proposal (#0) the goal is to reduce dialogue to the fullest extent possible (the emphasis would be on the visuals and most lipsync either would occur off screen or be hidden in shadows. Is Gravedigger's actual name Gravedigger? I thought that was just something we called him because nobody really knows his name. In light of this, going with "Hello my name is Gravedigger" seems to be unnecessary and not only that I think it's better to keep up the mystery of this character. If he ever says his name (which I'm not sure he should) it should be to Latimer (in the movie). If you are specifically targeting kids fo r the film then yes, he should probably state that his name is Gravedigger. I do like that your proposal has Gravedigger dealing with a 'throw away' character. If nothing else, he can do things to that character that he can't do to Latimer. My thought with using Latimer in the trailer is that as this film is all about Latimer I'd be good to actually see Latimer in the trailer. That he appears at the climax of the trailer suggests that he's pretty important and because he's seen for such a short time the viewer may want to know more about him and what is going to happen to him. This is the trailer asking the question on behalf of the audience, "Who are these characters?" But importantly... not supplying those answers. The film will do that. The area that I really want to consider more is where you have Gravedigger discuss plot elements (the exchange betweenDeath and Cleopatra) My first instinct is to suggest that you don't want to reveal such an important plot element of the movie in the trailer itself. Generically I think it would be appropriate to have Gravedigger comment on how things are getting bad but I'm not sure he should attribute that to Cleopatra. What I think would work pretty well would be your proposal as a narrative (Gravedigger talking) over the top of scenes pulled out of the movie. Example: Apologies for the liberties I've taken and I hope it's okay to post this here. I shortened the dialogue... remember you're gonna hafta animate all of that! For what it's worth, your proposal is funnier. You should post that here in the forum. As I see it we are in full on brainstorming mode here. Throw stuff at the wall until something sticks. *Excised after feedback from Lloyd.

00:00:00:00 Intro 00:00:00:00 Image of Latimer at his window (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain) 00:00:00:00 Image of Latimer's Parents at Graveside (Lightning Flash with Thunder) (consider rain) 00:00:00:00 Trees blowing / Leaves Falling (Dark Silhouette of Trees and Gravestones in lonely Graveyard) 00:00:00:00 Camera begins to zoom in on something large perched atop a Gravestone 00:00:00:00 Camera begins to move around the shape revealing it was the back of a character (Gravedigger). The Background subtly changes from that of the real world Graveyard to that of the land of the dead while circling Gravedigger. This acts as a bridging device between the two worlds and Gravedigger is the one that is taking us from here to there. 00:00:00:00 Thunder and Lighting (no rain) as Gravedigger is fully revealed (Is he smiling? Or just content?) 00:00:00:00 Gravedigger steps down from off of the Gravestone as his dialogue begins: (he says... something relevant) 00:00:00:00 Gravedigger walking and musing about events we don't understand or yet comprehend (not directly related to story but hinting at it in subtle way) " 00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps on a Gravestone and walks on 00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps again 00:00:00:00 Gravedigger taps again and smiles / starts digging "Most folks come here an' don't even know they're dead yet." 00:00:00:00 Cut to Latimer awakening from the grave with an audible gasp / Wide Eyed and Disoriented (perhaps with a slightly comical and amused look on his face to lighten the mood just a bit) "But they figger it out sooner or later." 00:00:00:00 Fade to Black with Title appearing "Woke Up Dead" 00:00:00:00 Fade Out with laughter of Gravedigger I timed this out to one minute but decided to erase all the timing because the shorter the better and it might not take one minute. Thought: It might be raining in the real world but no hint of rain in the land of the dead. This would help differentiate between the two visually/environmentally/sensually. Perhaps in the land of the dead it thunders and lightnings but never rains.

I'd go back to your script and ask him. Seriously though, your script does an excellent job of hinting at who he is. Weave that into him saying something related to telling the audience what they will see in the film and that might make a decent trailer. My initial thoughts are to consider what questions are asked/answered in the movie. Gravedigger might ask those question outright so that anyone that sees the movie has a guaranteed 'in' into the movie itself. I suppose there is something of a danger here that in using Gravedigger for the trailer you might force yourself to have him appear elsewhere in the movie as well... even if only at the very end (perhaps within or after the credits). In other words, the audience is going to be wondering about this character and how he fits into the over all scheme of things. I look forward to your email.

I see the 'Toy Story 3' trailer (at least one of them) was 1:11 long so I think 1 minute would be a good target (for a really long trailer). The shorter the better because (in theory) you could mix shorter trailers into a longer trailer that would still clock in at a decent length. Consier for instance the short outtakes/bloopers at the end of 'A Bugs Life' or the short sound bites at the beginning of 'The Incredibles'. They were long enough to grab the viewers attention which is the whole point of a trailer. Some questions/observations you want the viewer to ask/see: Interest: Who are these people? Speculation: What are those cool things? (Interesting, What does that mean?) Intrigue: What's that all about? One minute is quite a long time. For instance, consider how much dialogue usually gets animated over at the 11 Second Club in... um... 11 seconds. Added: This long 'trailer' from 'Boids of a Feather' seems closer to being a combo of three trailers and additional credits. It basically tells the whole story that would have been in the movie in abbreviated form and therefore clocks in at 2:14: (apologies for the low quality. I didn't see a higher quality setting) 1tIyEDyeo84

I think you've already got some of the grave side set completed right? Didn't I see some of that over at Amazon? Six months seems more than enough time. I'd say enough time to make it a quality trailer. Where possible I'd say to use that time also as a testing ground to work out any kinks in workflow and to test out production ideas (identifying key areas of your film where you can streamline production). Then as the trailers gets finalized you'll already be well on set for your film's production. Of course if Amazon picks up your property... you may have to come up with another project.

'Woke Up Dead' is now officially a special topic but... We're going to use this as an opportunity to start a new special topic that doesn't start out on the leader board (that group of images that appears on the front page). This to encourage others to push forward their own special topics and leave behind the world of WIPs to embrace full (or even limited) production. Eventually the leaderboard should assume more of an interactive look and feel while still maintaining the ability to click through to each of the represented special topics but at a guess I'd say we are still at least six months or more out from that. To Lloyd: Welcome to special topics... now get back to work! P.S. You need a special topics banner.

One of the reasons I don't commit to a lot of community projects is that once I am in I am 'all in' and I hate to commit to something that I don't think I can finish. As forum admin I also like to avoid even the perception of any conflict of interest. If the consensus is that devoting myself to 'Woke Up Dead' isn't a conflict of interest then I think you could say that I am 'all in' for the trailer. We'd have to stare pretty hard at the whole movie and consider that separately because that constitutes a considerable commitment (at a guess I'd say two to five years worth of commitment even if the film itself (theoretically) could be completed in a year). So to answer your question... Let's brainstorm a trailer (or even short series of trailers) and if that seems workable I will wholeheartedly commit to that. It's hard to commit to the idea of a trailer that isn't really fleshed out but as much as I can at this point, consider me committed. Here's a question right back at you: How much of this trailer do you want to work out in a public venue? (I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other but if it's forum related that pretty much guarantees that I will have no conflict of interest) also What are we looking at for a deadline? (That'd be good to know if you've already got that)

I'm not going to hold you to any 50-50 split but any nod of thanks pointed my way when you get all rich and famous will be appreciated. Personally I'd reserve some of that other 50 for others who will also want to work with you. How about you pull a George Lucas, retain 100% and just let others join in? When you get to a critical point then you can consider sharing some of your interest in it. Bottom line: No one is going to be more dedicated to your film/idea than you will be. If you really want to go the 50/50 split route I'd suggest putting that other 50% into a 'trust' (or the ideological equivalent thereof). In this way you can modify and disperse that trust when you get to the finish line (and with full knowledge of how the whole production went). The key then would be to keep track of all contributions so that when all is said and done no one feels slighted who significantly contributed to 'Woke Up Dead'. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the old method of animating where they used 'drafts' to assign animated segments but that is a prime way of keeping track of contributions. It's not foolproof as sometimes things do change late in the game but an initial draft lets everyone know where and what their responsibility is going into the production. It's best to completely nail those responsibilities down in order to avoid guess work and confusion. Here's an example from very early Disney... their first Mickey short even... (it'd be a lot easier to track with one or two people animating. ) : [googledoc]0Av8FWlQMMCJYdGNjWVo4X0ZoMDhzekxvQ2tVVHl1X0E#gid=0[/googledoc] Excel or Googledocs isn't strictly necessary. You can always use pencil and paper.

I could easily be talked into it. For what it's worth I'm looking for work that is fairly directive in nature. I'm particularly interested in something with a beginning, a middle and an end.

All of the CD images are listed in the individual releases but perhaps you are wanting to see the images themselves? Here's where the images are listed: Latest Info Forum For instance, here's a quote from the v12 release: v14.0c is here: v14.0c Release in Latest Info Forum That release states: CD Image/emphasis added in bold

You could always go for a trailer where one of the characters (or several) discuss the merits of the movie. This could come from many different angles but as an example: The chracters are sitting around a table with script in hand (Those that aren't fully modeled and textured might have their backs facing the camera). Lamiter says his line. Edgar says a line. Death says something that breaks out the script but reveals some of his character. Stepping farther awhile from dialogue you might have them discussing motivation or some other angle that suggests they are real actors performing their roles in the movie. Other than that, trailers usually consist of something that is already made so you'd have to inventory what you currently have available. That's is what you will then use to make your trailer. Personally, I think something with one of the characters we are less likely to see could appear or narrate the synopsis of the movie itself. If this was Gravedigger the set might only have to consist of him in a graveyard. The trailer might actually be a part of the movie we don't get to see such as the few moments right before Latimer wakes up in the land of the dead. He might be talking, talking, talking and then Latimer pokes his head up with a wide-eyed 'where the heck am I' look. Cue title and narrate out on more stuff to grab the audience's attention. (I'm tempted to suggest Gravedigger would pop him on the head and knock him out, then say, "It's not time for you to wake up yet." but... that might be out of character. Ultimately, my suggestion would be to inventory your current resources and then work backward from there. Keep it simple and resist straying from the trailer you plan. If you have additional time consider making a second trailer. There is no end to the number of trailers you could come up with but you need to narrow it down and deliver one. What about a series of trailers with all black backgrounds like each character is delivering a monologue on a stage? One focusing on Cleopatra? One with Edgar's head? One with Latimer? One with Death? Trailers like that might grab some attention if they reveal something interesting about the character. (If you can I'd make those a plausible occurrence from the movie itself (maybe in an unguarded moment when the character didn't realize they were being recorded live on camera). For instance, it could be Edgar reciting poetry on stage at the Raven. The camera might then pull back to reveal Death clapping (without much enthusiasm and the only one in the house) and end with some witty exchange. When thinking of a trailer this is your opportunity to say 'hey look at these characters' in a way that you cannot in the movie itself. I say just have fun with it while keeping each of your characters in character. The exception to this would be one of the characters (perhaps Death) suggesting something isn't going as planned, ala "You've got to be kidding. There is no possible way my character would say this". As a cautionary note, I would be careful though not to denigrate the script or movie itself. Don't cheapen it for a laugh. Maintain its integrity. If you have some of the background created then you could go for more moody scenes but otherwise I'd go with stark (perhaps black) backgrounds with spotlit characters.

I would encourage everyone that spots a tutorial they've found to be of use to them (or they think would be particularly useful to the 14 Day trial users) to post a link to it or to bump it up by commenting on it. This will make it easier for us to spot and highlight for the Trial Users. We want to make sure all A:M users have everything they need to be successful.

Very nice David. You make this stuff look easy!

As Nancy has indicated baking is not necessary. I don't think we can bake particles in a Model. (that is an interesting thought however...hmmm) I was assuming you were still having issues with controlling particle hair in your animation and grooming is just one aspect of that. I think we can groom hair just about anywhere (Model, Action or Choreography). If I understand baking of particles it is primarily a means to get simulation settings to lock down so that A:M doesn't continually have to update, calculate and recalculate those settings. It will also be useful when using Netrender because Netrender would otherwise recalculate everything all over again which can lead to unintended variations in those calculations. Baking (basically) keyframes the results of the particle simulation.

Are you baking your particles? As far as my approach to geometry based hair there are quite a few tutorials on cloth so it might be best to point you to those. In the meantime I'll offer this: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Cloth Simulation ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The basic approach is: Create two materials: 1 - Cloth 2 - Cloth Deflector 3 - Apply those to meshes and then simulate Rename these materials as Cloth and ClothDeflector or something easier to find later. (A:M doesn't automatically name them anything particularly useful so we have to do that) Create the mesh that you will use as hair, fire, smoke or whatever you will be attempting to create via the cloth simulation. Considerations: When dealing with cloth simulation there are several 'tricks' to getting it to perform with maximum control. Here are a few: - Use Named Groups! By naming Groups we can not only better understand and organize we can layer in effects. For instance, having a group of objects that will serve to deflect the cloth (i.e. it has the Deflector Material applied to it) that is invisible (turn its surface property to Transparent=100%). In this way you can channel and direct the simulation in interesting ways. - Consider leaving dangling splines outside of the area to be simulated. These will ground the cloth to something stable that will not be directly effected by the simulation. In the case of hair these might be below the surface of the 'skin' that the hair will appear from. I try to select these dangling splines and name them something like 'base' so that they can be modified later. - Consider the distance from each object you've created. Overlapping meshes will cause the cloth simulation to error out because it can't properly calculate the interactions and directions. (i.e. it doesn't know which way is up because we've confused it by having interpenetrating meshes) - Consider saving out/exporting a frame of the animated simulation as a separate model. In this way you could generate thousands of resources simply by launching one simulation. We then can animate those separately or... simulate them again in other ways. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Forces ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adding forces (via Right Click/Add/Force) in an Action or Choreography allows us to push and pull geometry around in a dynamic way. This is especially useful for cloth simulation. We can hide or lock objects or add invisible objects in between the force and their location to 'protect' them from being effected in the same way as those areas that are fully effected. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Render As Lines (RAL) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Render As Lines is considerably more basic than cloth simulation and is not as versatile because there are no patches. It is important to note however that RAL can and generally should be augmented by the use of patches. For example you might have a cool looking robot and just add some detailed lines over the top of the robot's mesh to add the appearance of additional details. With v17s new 'Snap to Surface' features adding splines to the surface of a model is easy whereas before we had to painstakingly turn our models around or view them from multiple angles simultaneously to make sure the lines were on the surface. In my estimation the secret to RAL is using Named Groups to layer in of additional properties on the same splines/shapes. Using a little roughness and then adjusting the scale of that roughness can create some very interesting effects. Because RAL does generate some rendering artifacts on occasion it's often best to take this one step further and convert the splines to geometrical (patch rendering) shapes. This is trivial and easy to do with use of the Sweeper plugin. Just draw a little spline shape (say three CPs connected) and name it as a Named Group (because I will delete it later I often name mine, "Use Me". Then I can easily find it in the Sweeper dialogue. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sweeper plugin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Basic Steps to use Sweeper: Create the splines you wish to sweep (It's best to Name this as a Group although technically it isn't necessary) Create the shape or object you wish to sweep (name this Group) Select the splines you wish to sweep Right Click and go to Plugins/Sweeper Select the shape you wish to sweep from the list of Named Groups in the drop down menu Adjust other parameters as necessary Launch the sweep The swept shape will automatically be named so it will be easy to move away from the splines used to create it. That original spline can then be adjusted or used for additional sweeping or discarded. If the swept object isn't to your liking simply delete it and sweep again with different settings. Move them to the side if you wish to compare multiple sweeps with different settings. That is a basic primer for the areas under consideration. As I mentioned before, I haven't actually pressed into the classic use of decalled hair that is then cloth simulated. This is especially powerful because we can use Patch Images (with all of their various Image Types) to layer in the hair. That hair can then be further animated/simulated. It should also be noted that once we've got the geobased system in place we can further augment that with particles based effects (to include but not necessarily requiring particle hair). For instance, geobased hair might be further enhanced through the use of sprites or blobby effects. The general premise being to accomplish what we can with simple geometry and use particles to achieve what cannot be easily achieved complex geometry and interactions which is what particles attempt to simulate.

Wow. It seems like just yesterday we were wishing these guys a happy birthday. 2012 is flying by! Happy Birthday Raf and Victor!