Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 i would like to know how to correct a problem so that i can avvoid these problems in the future. Make good sense to me. "To the patient come the fruits." Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 i'm going crazy none so much of my buttons and crap don't function the same as in the tutorial videos? i follow verbatim what the video says over and over again and still i can't stretch or shrink the words... in the stuck door exercise i couldn't release the constraints!!! the instructions are there, i follow them exactly, i'm going crazy... what the hell. in say that "I've" and "Didn't" arent pink or with a read square like the tutorial or the book say. i can't tell what buttons are pushed on my screen AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH... Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 the screens don't even look the same... i don't get it....... ............ ....... ... Quote
lhvio89 Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Ok, after 16 hours of rendering Can you say that (WTF IS IT TAKING SOOOOOOO FREAKIN LONG FOR THIS EXERCISE?!?!?!?!)....it is done rendering... Well, there is no sound, the lips don't move at the right speed (as they did when I was moving the dope sheet around, and playing it in shaded mode), and the lips skip the entire last bit of words "didn't think so." Why did it take sooo long to render, then not even render it correctly?! Thanks, Logan Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 Why did it take sooo long to render, then not even render it correctly?! Too many variables... The only sure way to know would be to look at the project file. If I were a guessing man (which I often am) I'd say you told A:M to render what it spit out (via the range setting in the render panel). Look there to see if you need to adjust the frame range. While your there also check the other settings one by one to get a good idea of the option available to you. As with all guesses... they are prone toward error. It could be something else. Something is definitely not set right. (as you know) If you want to run test renders (which I recommend before any final render) you can change the options to speed up the renderer. Example: Render to mini or low resolution. Mini may be too small but it'd tell you if your sound was all there. Other things will dramatically decrease rendering times. - Make sure multipass is either off (preferred for quick tests) or set between 1 and 4. I can't help but think this is the reason for your long render times... - If checking the images only... render to TGA. Worry about sound after you have the images like you want them. - Something that might be worth exploring would be to render out to TGA and then render out again with the sound, combining the two. People often split these tasks in order to better control the individual elements of the animation. Just a few thoughts. Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 the screens don't even look the same... i don't get it....... Alejandro, The manual doesn't keep up with the revisions of A:M. The interface underwent 2 major changes since TAOA:M first came out and the manual hasn't yet caught up. none so much of my buttons and crap don't function the same as in the tutorial videos Can't speak much to the crap but the buttons we can look at. There are times where it will be more advantageous to read the book and times where the video will seem to explain things better. You really should use both resources to help you through. Take a break... drink some water (avoid vodka) and we can pick up where we left off. K? Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 i am using both. lately i've mostly used the video tut. i was playing with the word 'got' in you've "say that" and the first and last phoneme where so small, so i enlarged the timeline screen but the slivers didn't get any bigger... so keetkat doesn't move his lips when the word 'got' is played... alex Quote
lhvio89 Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Ok Rodney, thanks. I will try those. But what I don't understand, is why the Rabbit exercise, which had the exact same render settings as this one, rendered at about 2-3 secs. a frame, and this one is rendering so slowly... Oh, and as to the range settings, I had it set from 1:00 to whenever the end was (just so there would not be a whole second of nothing at the beginning.) Logan Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 Alejandro, The reason your word's aren't appearing in red is most likely because your dictionary file is missing. I'll try to find a easy way to run you through getting it back. Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 i was playing with the word 'got' in you've "say that" and the first and last phoneme where so small, so i enlarged the timeline screen but the slivers didn't get any bigger... so keetkat doesn't move his lips when the word 'got' is played... ...by slivers you mean the words? or the actual sound waveforms? Quote
lhvio89 Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Oh, Rodney, as to the problem alejandro is having with the red not showing up on the "I've," I have the same problem with my dope sheet. I am using the dictionary file that is on the 10.5 cd (I had to just copy and paste it into the 11.1 folder), and the word "I've" (or any other words in "I've got a secret. Can you keep a secret? Didn't think so), does not show up in red. It does however, have the phenoeme break down of "Ai" + "v", so I believe that this version of the .dict file recognizes this word. Logan Quote
lhvio89 Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 Oh, and after looking at the settings, I am still having the same long render problem All the settings seem to be correct (well, the exact same as rendering other things that take far less time to render). Logan Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 i do have the dictionary file my program is randomly not working, then something will work i've restarted the project 7 times and sometimes it works other times it does not the phonemes, the sounds that compose a word that are listed under the word in the dope sheet (which incedentally will randomly disappear, even though i use the thumb tack in the corner to secure it) sometimes they'll a sliver in length and other times it will be as long as the whole phrase.... alex Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 i don't drink, but vodka sounds good about now... alex Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 the phonemes, the sounds that compose a word that are listed under the word in the dope sheet (which incedentally will randomly disappear, even though i use the thumb tack in the corner to secure it) sometimes they'll a sliver in length and other times it will be as long as the whole phrase.... We may need to address your interface quirks before we address the exercise. I take it you are using v11 (2004). You might want to run with v11.1 unless what you are seeing is video card related. If the activity seems to be part of the normal function of A:M I would update to v11.1. If not, I would investigate to see if your video card manufacturer has a newer driver. I'm not seeing what you are on my end with v11.1. I'm planning to reinstall earlier versions to help troubleshoot those as well. For sanity's sake I try to live mainly in the current version. Quote
alejandro Posted December 31, 2004 Posted December 31, 2004 i am useing version 11.1b i just got the program last week i'm using a mac so there won't be any video card issues Quote
Admin Rodney Posted December 31, 2004 Author Admin Posted December 31, 2004 I went back and reviewed the videos from Exercise 7 to refresh my memory and am again impressed by the delivery of information contained in it. (Note: I'm specifically addressing Part I of the exercise. Part II deals more with secondary motion related to what you've accomplished with lipsync) The video hits a few areas that address some of the questions asked here. (not necessarily interface related ones though). Dictionary. The video explains a few problems that might be encountered. 1) What to do if you get an error and your dictionary is not found by A:M. Answer: Find the file (dictonary.dic) on your CD (For PC users it is in the Setup Folder "Windows"). Alex, The reason the words "I've" and "Didn't" most likely didn't show as pink is because those words are currently in the dictionary. In the exercise they weren't in the dictionary in order to show how to add individual phonemes. I'm so used to people asking about missing dictionary files I went with the easy guess. Sorry. 2) We'll have to wait for now... as my computer is doing too many things at once right now...and things are slowing down... back with more in a few. Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 i will be working on this project all night long... i hope you'll be right there with me rodney... you don't have anything to do tonight do you? well let me tell you i started the project over again, (exercixe 7). everything went smoothly until i created the dope sheet... so i'm thinking to my self everything is so great and wonderful and beautiful up until now that i better save this luxurorious event. bling, blam, bloom saythat project is saved, and dope sheet is gone. (mind you i did the stupid useless thumbtack thing... again) http://www.hash.com/forums/style_images/1/icon8.gif i'm sorry did i get any puke on your keyboard? (i had hair this morning, i swear) your favorite alex Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 you don't have anything to do tonight do you? Nope.... not really. Family out of town and entirely too cold be be a New Year reviler. I'm here until the lights go out. Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 Hey Rodney, Do you have any other suggestions as to why this is taking sooo much longer to render? Like I said above, I checked the settings, and they are exactly as they were for the Walk cycle exercise.... Logan P.S.---Just to make sure it wasn't something wrong with my computer, I rendered something else, a walk cycle, and it rendered at about 2 secs per frame (same settings)...so it appears to be just something with this exercise... Thanks for all your help!!!! And Happy New Year! Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 Do you have any other suggestions as to why this is taking sooo much longer to render? Well... this exercise DOES take a while to render. That is true. I'd guess that other animations you are testing don't have sound. That is definitely one factor that will increase the size of your file dramatically as well. The following is one I just did: Exercise 7 (No bells. No whistles) Just over 2MB in LOW resolution. Toon render is really the only big departure from the exercise. There is one little tweak that bears mentioning but I'll hit that on a later post. It can be an important consideration in getting fluid lipsync. I'm game to exhaust all problems (and solutions) with Exericise 7 and in particular the dopesheet and lipsync, so everyone in the forum is welcome to join in! Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 I'll do a little experimenting and see how long rendering takes with various options on/off. You can do the math on how long it took me to render that last one. About 50 seconds a frame X 180 frames= Yep... taking a lot of time here too. Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 Still----that is 50 seconds a frame...not 5:40 a frame.... Anyway, why did the sound not work when I rendered it? Logan Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 Wooohooo!! I am rendering it again now, and changed it from VGA to Low resolution, and zoomed the camera out a bit (instead of just a head shot, it is about the same view as the file you posted above.) Right now, it is rendering at an average of 33 seconds per frame Only thing now would be to see it the sound works...*looks nervous* Logan Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 I haven't forgot your questions... I figure if we are going for a solution it might as well be one that helps the next person too. Hmmm...I'm learning a bit myself here. That's always a good thing. The attached (screenshot) shows a pretty dramatic decrease in render times. This one averaging about 35 seconds per frame. That's a pretty good decrease from 50 I'd say. What did I try? Two things. First I dropped Keekat into a choreography. That alone might help with render times but the jury is still out. After dropping Keekat into the chor I thought baking the actions of the chor might be a good thing to try. I think it was but I got a circularity error on (actually many of them) on Keekat's tail. Many Escape keys later... I rendered what I had left. I'll have to look to see if baking had any effect. My guess is that it did. Not sure about the circularity... As far as the attached pics are concerned... the top one demonstrates why 1) you shouldn't let Keekat play in the snow 2) Why I alway delete that pesky ground plane first when I experiment. Interesting to note that the ground plane took my rendertime down to 19 seconds. Sometimes mistakes are a good thing when you are experimenting. You could say it is an essential part of learning. Need to look farther but lets look at your side of the equation. What are your system specs? Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 19" Sony LCD, Chaintec GeForce 4, Win XP Pro, 512MB Ram, 80GB HD, 200 GB HD, 60GB HD, 30GB HD, Soundblaster Audigy Platinum Okay... got it. Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 i have managed to get the action saved and ready to apply. in the same project i open a chor. window and drop keetkat in it... now AM won't let me put the new action sequence into the chor with keetkat. so i can't render it.... what now oh might knower of this project??? Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 what now oh might knower of this project??? I haven't the slightest idea. What do you think? Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 that was suposed to say 'mighty knower' Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 i don't know, i've only had this program for a week. i know how to render, i know how to apply an action, i don't know why the action won't take to keetkat for this project. Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 i rendered it in the action window and the lips don't move the way i did it and i still cant apply it to a chor window like i can with the salute on the knight Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 We may have to stick to one question at a time so I don't get lost... i don't know why the action won't take to keetkat for this project. Are you dropping the action onto keekat? If you can't drop it onto keekat in the Chor window try dropping it onto his shortcut in the Project Work Space. Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 that worked, except now for some reason the action is 1 minute and 7 sec long... but the lips seem to work ok, although i haven't rendered it yet. sorry if i'm overloading you with questions i just don't ever want to see or hear keetkat again... thanks rodney! Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 i just don't ever want to see or hear keetkat again... hehe. The little guy grows on you after awhile. This is as good as any time to point everyone to the Keekat Character study. There is much I had hoped to explore further relating to Keekat but we hit the highlights. One thing for certain, a lot of work when into him. For those that have the time I proudly present: The Keekat Character Study Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 well he isn't cooperating today... through the project workspace i am able to apply the saythat action to keetkat, but as i said before the timing of the project jumped from 6.2 seconds to 1.7 minutes. why? and the render window is telling me it will take 11 hours to render the preview? why? i rendered the saythat project in preview and in the action window and it took 1 minute why? sorry for the many questions... but i'm desperate and obessed, bad combo... Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 Ok, after a first go at it (no secondary actions as of yet), and an average render time of about 33 secs per frame, this is what I have: Can you say that? Attempt 1 So, you say that you got the render time down to 19 seconds per frame by deleting the ground plane? (Just want to clarify). Thanks. Logan Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 well i deleted the ground and had the total render time down from 11 hours to 4 hours... i guess thats better... avg render time is 1.19 minutes... Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 come on rodney answer all my questions... also whats the deal with women... Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 EDIT: I was mistaken in making this post. Logan Quote
alejandro Posted January 1, 2005 Posted January 1, 2005 that was to make my previous statement a jest, and light hearted... Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 1, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 1, 2005 I know less about women than I do about A:M... Which is to say "nothing" in both cases. Quote
PF_Mark Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Just keeping a hand in this while I wait to start my next project. So I did the path ease exercise and this is my result. http://home.cogeco.ca/%7Erobinallan/Movies/patheasek1.mov Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 2, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 2, 2005 Mark, Chalk that one up as a success! Quote
hypnomike Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Nice one Mark! Have you ditched rabbit altogether for this project or is he wearing the armour??? Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Here is my "Can you say that?" exercise after doing the first round of secondary actions...(haven't added head shaking or arm movements yet). The winking eye is very messed up, but that seems to be something wrong with the model itself. (could be me though, which is very likely). Thanks, Logan H. Can you say that? P.S.---Rodney, what are you using to convert from .avi to an animated .gif file? Thanks Quote
PF_Mark Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Nice one Mark! Have you ditched rabbit altogether for this project or is he wearing the armour??? How did you know I tried the rabbit first?? I tried the rabbit and the wave action did not work very well so I redid the exercise with the knight and it worked much better. Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 Here is exercise 8: Customized car. Logan Quote
lhvio89 Posted January 2, 2005 Posted January 2, 2005 I have a little problem. When I go to add the wing on Exercise 10 (after making the fuselage) above the plane...when it says to use "Add Lock" mode...the add lock button is not able to be pressed. (it is grey). How do I make it so that I can use add lock mode? Thanks, Logan Quote
Admin Rodney Posted January 2, 2005 Author Admin Posted January 2, 2005 Logan, Looks like you are soldiering through. Nice job on both 7 and 8! Rodney, what are you using to convert from .avi to an animated .gif file? My favorite tool for easy conversion is Corel Photopaint. I can usually make the conversion in two moves: copy and paste. It saves a lot of time but not everyone has Corel on their desktop. It's not cheap but it would be hard to live without for me. There are a few freeware utilities out there for converting AVIs to GIFs. I think I used to use AVI2GIF at one time and it does a decent job... harder to retime the frames and get good compression out of it though. A Google search will probably bring up some good candidates. Behind A:M, CorelDraw suite is my favorite set of applications. I *mostly* use Coreldraw for creating the certificates you get upon completion of these exercises. Moving back and forth between Corel and A:M makes my life a whole lot easier and makes personalizing the certificates possible. Quote
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