AM mobile version with HAMR?

[pixelplucker]

How difficult would it be to make an AM app for Android and Mac iOS?

I was thinking it could just the core program with a simplified rendering or realtime renderer using HAMR as opposed to rendering to files as full movies due to limited space on mobile devices. But have the file importable to the full AM product.

[Rodney]

Fairly difficult I'd say.

In essence you are suggesting a rewrite of A:M code from the ground up on two new platforms.

 

Something like a HAMR viewer would be a lot easier but see the last topic about HAMR for challenges to that.

 

Now if the A:M app in mind didn't have to do everything A:M can do now that'd simplify the process considerably.

My take at the moment is that it would be more realistic to code an emulator for Android/Mac iOS that will run full Windows/Mac applications and then find a way to securely port A:M to that.

 

Let's let the experts chime in.

[robcat2075]

I once chatted with Ken Baer, former Hash programmer, the one in charge of the Mac version and now employed elsewhere as a MacOS programmer, about the feasibility of recoding A:M for a new OS environment.

Me: What would you thumbnail estimate as the number of programmer-hours needed to recode A:M (from scratch if necessary) as a truly modern MacOS compliant app? Throw me a plausible number I can use in conversation about this.

 

Ken: To get to a stable state and same functionality? 2 years full time. V5 and v9 were rewrites. You saw how long it took to make them stable again. And that was with 6 coders. It's not going to happen.

 

Me: Two years with six people, then? I can't imagine one person coding for 12 years so it's pretty much un-doable for one person, right?

 

Ken: [there is no way to] pay for that.

Me: Definitely not. Some people were talking up a Kickstarter campaign to fund this. My reaction was that it would be cheaper to buy every A:M mac user a copy of Windows to run the PC version. Thanks for your expert info. You've confirmed what I dimly suspected.

 

 

The PC version of A:M absolutely depends on numerous calls to code that is built-in to Windows and the Mac version depends on custom code Hash wrote over years that covers the code that is lacking from MacOS.

 

All of that would have to be recreated again to work on Android.

 

If you absolutely need A:M on a tablet, real Windows tablets are getting very powerful and very cheap.

 

 

 

[pixelplucker]

How disimalr is the Mac OS and iOS?

Isn't much of the code already done, how modular are the components?

My thoughts on using HAMR for the playback and eliminating the rendering oration of the program might be possible. When I say a lite version I do mean to create a bare bones 3d modeling and animation.

Porting to Android might be a lot of work but the iPad version might be plausible.

 

As far as the Windows based tablets there is no real issue other than space and video. I have been looking at tablets in general and found that the iPad followed by Android devices to be the better of the tablets with price, performance and function and the Windows based tablets to be the worst. The average Win 8 tablet uses the Atom chip and is restricted to 32bit OS coupled with the enormous size of Win 8 that forces people to purchase systems with a minimum of 32 gig and ideally 64 gig compared to iPad and Androids at half that.

[Rodney]

I believe when we think in terms of porting A:M (or recoding A:M) to other systems we are missing the boat.

There are better ways to work with Android, MaciOS and A:M.

Just because A:M itself cannot run on those platforms does not mean A:M files cannot be used.

The secret sauce to success (on those platforms) is to write applications that accomplish tasks that are easier (on mobile platform) to do.

 

As a for instance, entire productions can be organized anywhere without the direct need for A:M.

Then once the production is accessed by A:M off and away you go.

Want to replace a model with something updated/new... just move the file to the right location.

 

A viewer app would be ideal of course and one that takes advantage of spline technology would be even better but folks have a whole lot more trouble organizing their projects than they do actually producing them.

 

the iPad version might be plausible.

 

Unlikely for reasons Robert alluded to (see also discussions of the issues upgrading to Mavericks etc.). But, if an application to run the full version of Windows on iPad is ever produced...

 

The good news is that very few things are impossible.

[robcat2075]

What would this "lite A:M" be worth to you? In dollars.

[pixelplucker]

What is the going rate for apps? Under $10.00?

I would probably pay as high as $30.00 maybe more depending on features.

 

What would you pay?

[robcat2075]

There would not be enough buyers at $10 or even $30 to pay for the development cost on a new OS.

 

Personally I would not buy a "lite" A:M. If I wanted to have A:M in a portable form factor I would buy a Windows tablet for it and run the real thing.

 

Not the cheapest possible Windows tablet with the least power, I'd get one that has a real Intel CPU and adequate RAM. Remember that A:M is not usable with touch gesture control, you will need something that can use a mouse or at least a true pen.

 

A used MS Surface 1 or 2 would fill that need. Those can be had cheap now.

 

What ever advantage an Android tablet has in some hardware aspect would be outweighed for me by the fact that I could run full A:M rather than a stripped down A:M on a Windows tablet.

[pixelplucker]

Then your better off buying a laptop since currently there are better laptops for far less than any high end Win 8 tablets.

I thought that there might be a nice market for those that want to drop content, not necessarily create, into an app. Animate their scene and share it.

 

Maybe leave the content creation on the full AM side.

[robcat2075]

Youtube will work on any tablet, as far as I know. If someone has animation to share they can put it out there for everyone to see even if they are not A:M users.

 

The set of A:M buyers is just not big enough to fund a venture into a new OS.

[nemyax]

What do you suppose the workflow would be like in a tablet version of A:M?

[robcat2075]

As far as I know there is no bargain Android tablet with a real pen, it's all finger control.

 

The A:M interface has many small buttons and menus that would have to be sized up to be practical for fat fingers but that would lose you quite a bit screen space.

 

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it would be quite a bit of work and revision to make it satisfactory.

[Fuchur]

Samsung Note 10.1 has a good pen and the first version of it was the first real tablet with a good pen.

 

Anyhow: the windows surface 3 is a nice option in any aspect even compared to laptops (but i still think a laptop is better... but it is close enough). if you absolutely need a tablet it is a very nice possibilty... but it is not cheap... on the other hand a good ultrabook is neigther...

[pixelplucker]

There is the Wacom Bamboo Fineline and Intuos Bluetooth pens out now that work with iPad and many Android tablets.

I tried the MS Surface versions 1-3 and found them to be way over priced for what they are. Intel is coming out with a new chip to replace the horrid Atom chip so maybe the Win tablets wil be better and more competitive in price. The cost of the i3, i5' and i7 based machines are so high your just better off getting a laptop.

 

So no one things an iPad version of AM is worth it?

[robcat2075]

It would be worth $10 (if I had an iPad, but I don't and won't) but there is no way it can be produced at that price point or even at $30.

 

If you can line up 5000 customers at $10 that still wouldn't be enough to pay for the cost of developing A:M for a new OS.

 

If you can line up a programmer who will do it for free, that would be a different story.

[nemyax]

So no one things an iPad version of AM is worth it?

I don't think you can animate anything worth jack on an iPad.

[Rodney]

So no one things an iPad version of AM is worth it?

 

Everyone thinks its worth it (they'd love to see it in action if it was already made) but no one would be willing to pay for it be be made.

Hash Inc likely doesn't see the value in it because if they did it would already be created.

 

I would think that this would be more of a case of using the iPad to control a Mac/PC.

Example: https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/microsoft-remote-desktop/id714464092?mt=8

 

Most of the remote control apps I've seen of this type are from 2012 so they should be much improved after 2 to 3 years.

 

 

Where there is a will, there is a way.

[pixelplucker]

Interesting, the first negative review is someone who hates pc's and blames them because essentially they have fat fingers and no right mouse button on their hand? It's a remote desktop running on an iPad ffs!

 

That like saying I hate going to the races on my bike because the f1's pass me all the time...

With that negative review I think I'll give the app a try.

 

I'm assuming a kick starter would be out of order on this idea. I thought the programs source code was much more modular and able to be ported through a different compiler. Only ones that could answer that would the the programmers.

 

My thoughts were that the app would have the modeler, an i/o for mdl files. Simplified animation timeline maybe restricted to storyboard mode, real time render only so textures would have to be baked in. Maybe even limit the rigging to auto assign and bone fall off. I thought that it might be a good way to get people interested in animation where they may want to go and get the full blown version and really be creative. Seems like too much work I guess.

[robcat2075]

I'll note that I have explicitly asked Steffen about the possibility of an iPad version of A:M in the past. I thought it would be a potentially useful way to extend A:M's visibility

 

He told me there is just too much that doesn't exist in iOS for that to be a simple matter of recompiling the current A:M code or even after adding a modest amount of effort.

 

Also I don't believe they allow an app on Apple iPad unless it is fully compliant with their interface guidelines. As noted above, that redesign would be an impossibly time-consuming task.

 

Your idea is not a bad one, but it is an expensive one to implement.

[pixelplucker]

Makes sense, I also heard that developer kits for Android and Apple's iOS are extremely expensive.

In the past I did some extensive beta testing for a popular 3d modeling program. When the 64bit version came out they completely modularized it and used XML to tie it together enabling easier edits and porting. This task did take quite a few programmers over a year and half just to get to alpha. Obviously this would be a daunting task for the AM team I'm sure.

 

On another note there was an update to the new Wacom Bamboo Fineline for those that want a pressure sensitive stylus on the iPad, there are other models for many of the Win8 tablets too. It works with Bluetooth, though not as precise as the regular Wacom enabled screens it is very usable and works with capacitance screens. It actually seems far less laggy than the Surface Pro 3.