Clay 2.0

[MiddleKid]

I'm rebuilding my favorite character, Clay... "we have the technology, we can rebuild him"

 

For those who've never seen Clay, you can check out the old version at my web site. I'm pretty happy with the mesh and the more life-like appearance he's got now, but I can't help feeling that he looks kinda generic. Of course, textures will help with that but IMO, I think a good model should look great before texturing.

 

So, if any of you kick-butt character designers have any suggestions on improving my beloved Clay, I'd love to hear about it!

 

Thanks!

[MiddleKid]

The mesh.

[MiddleKid]

And a couple of orthographic views.

[modernhorse]

I have no design idears for ya ... but that is a great and smooth looking mesh. Very spline light. I want to see him smile and frown and all that as I wanna see how your light mesh holds up in that category. Nice nice.

 

Doug

[Parlo]

Great character.

 

The only thing I'd look at is the back of the head - you could try tapering into neck more. At the moment it's a bit flat.

 

But this is just a niggle, not a design flaw.

[ZachBG]

The thing I liked most about Clay 1.0 (you need a cool code name... maybe "Clay Jaguar") was the squareness at the top of his head. The top of his head is round now, which is just so... normal.

 

But I'd kill for your modeling skillz. That's a beautiful mesh.

 

Zach

[Aminator]

Looking good. Maybe the nose could use more distinctiveness?

[MiddleKid]

oops - hit 'post' by accident.

[MiddleKid]

The thing I liked most about Clay 1.0 (you need a cool code name... maybe "Clay Jaguar") was the squareness at the top of his head.  The top of his head is round now, which is just so... normal.

I tried to keep a bit of the square look to his head... I guess it's just too subtle. I did like the square-head look too, I'll do some tweaking tonight.

 

The only thing I'd look at is the back of the head - you could try tapering into neck more. At the moment it's a bit flat.

 

Hey! You're right! He does need room for a brain, doesn't he?

 

I want to see him smile and frown and all that as I wanna see how your light mesh holds up in that category.

 

The demo reel that's on my web site has the old version of Clay introducing my animations. The mesh is actually a bit lighter than this one and it held up pretty well in all but the most extreme expressions. This new mesh was designed to fix some of those problems. Clay is the star of my short film and there's no dialogue... his expressive face is everything.

 

Oh - I forgot to upload the full body shot of the new Clay. I'm going to add some more detail to the lower torso/upper thigh area but after that, I'll be done.

[Phil]

Maybe add some ears? <_>

[modernhorse]

I meant to ask about eyelids. Does he have them? Nice body too.

 

Doug

[MiddleKid]

I meant to ask about eyelids.  Does he have them?

 

I'm debating that now. The old version didn't have normal eyelids like people do. Well, he did have eyelids but they weren't a separate surface... Hmm, it's kinda hard to explain. Just look at a cat or dog's eyes, that's the way his worked. No noticable "lid" surface, the skin just kinda slides over the eyeball.

 

What made that system workable was that his "eyeballs" were essentially flat planes with the pupils attached via surface constraints. However, the surface constraints kept causing problems, so I decided to go with the more conventional, spherical eyeball.

 

Now the challenge is getting those funky eyelids to work over a sphere. The previous lid motion was just up/down since they were covering a flat plane. Getting them to move over a sphere will require a bit more trickery.

[modernhorse]

Jeepers ... I think I just remembered something ...

 

Didn't I contact you about I dunno 2 years ago re: music? Did you used to have a site that had a pic of you silouhetted against a surf ?

 

Anyhow maybe I'm crazy but I think we talked a couple/few times.

 

I like your site. Good luck with clay 2.0.

 

Doug

[ZPiDER]

What made that system workable was that his "eyeballs" were essentially flat planes with the pupils attached via surface constraints. However, the surface constraints kept causing problems, so I decided to go with the more conventional, spherical eyeball.

 

Now the challenge is getting those funky eyelids to work over a sphere. The previous lid motion was just up/down since they were covering a flat plane. Getting them to move over a sphere will require a bit more trickery.

hmm .. how about going back "halfway" meaning not a flat pane, but only a part of a sphere some observations about this approach:

 

- the real center of the spere would be farther back in his head

- the eyes would better convey his original character

- the conceived center would remain the same

 

fot this kind of setup you could create a simple rig that works without surface constraints:

- have a bone in the conceived center

that aims at (constraint) the target null

- this bone has a child called "tip"

- have a bone in the real center

this bone has the pupil cps assigned to it

and aims at (constraint) "tip"

 

(see attached project)

eye_try.prj

[MiddleKid]

Didn't I contact you about I dunno 2 years ago re: music?

By golly I think you did! And I'm STILL working on the same short film we talked about back then.

 

hmm .. how about going back "halfway" meaning not a flat pane, but only a part of a sphere some observations about this approach:

 

Zpider that's just freakin' brilliant! I downloaded your project file and I think this may be exactly what I'm looking for! You Da Man!

 

I'm toying with a couple of different ideas for the eyes and now you've gone and added a third option - Looks like I've got some serious work to do tonight.

 

Thanks!

[3DArtZ]

Model looks well built, but I'm really curious about the elbow joint. Why do you have 3 splines connecting like that to one control point?

Mike Fitz

www.3dartz.com

[modernhorse]

By golly I think you did! And I'm STILL working on the same short film we talked about back then.

 

Hey cool ! I'm starting my own ... the race is on. Maybe mine will only take me 3 or 4 years. hehe

 

If I can just keep myself from browsing these forums!

 

Best of luck with that short and feel free to contact me any time.

modernhorse@yahoo.com

 

Cya,

Doug

[MiddleKid]

Why do you have 3 splines connecting like that to one control point?

Because rules are made to be broken. I'm creating creases on purpose! There are several other places where I've done similar things... the knees, ankles, shoulders... Basically anywhere there's a bone-to-muscle joint that's visible through the skin. I tried some creases on the face but it just wasn't convicing. I suppose since muscles in the face primarily connect to the skin.

 

Hey cool !  I'm starting my own ... the race is on.  Maybe mine will only take me 3 or 4 years.  hehe 

 

3 or 4 years sounds about right. Clay here has existed in various forms since 1999 and I originally wrote the story some time in 2000. At that time, I thought it would only take me a year or so to finish it. HA! Boy was I stupid! Just for fun, I've attached one of the old teaser posters I made.

 

Anyway, the story has evolved a ton since then and so have my skills. So I'm hoping to have a trailer out early next year and the final film out in mid 2005.

[MiddleKid]

Friends don't let friends play with displacement maps....

[SHADOWMASTER]

As messed up as that is, I think it rocks hard-core!!

[zacktaich]

Clay 2.0 -

Now with Syphilus!!

 

Sorry for the tasteless humor

[Zaryin]

I think the displacement might be a little >too. He's looking great to me.

[MiddleKid]

I had time this weekend to get the eyes done (thanks to Zpider) and add some basic poses to the brows. This render also has the new textures. Let me know what you think!

 

PS - The displacement map image was an accident.... but it was just to freaky not to post.

[ragtag]

I like the last picture you posted, looks excellent. Though, I actually think the eyes he has on the poster, flat with a dot for a pupil in front, fit the design almost better than the ones you have now. They're kind of empty and fit that sad/lost expression of his. As for ears, I think either way works fine, he doesn't need ears as is...but I don't think a pair of cartoony ears would do any harm.

 

Since your character is called Clay...I assume he's supposed to be made of clay. The one thing I don't like about the design, if you don't mind me saying so, is the body. It's a nice body, but I don't think it fits the head very well nor does it look particularly like clay. It's too slim and too anotomical (clear muscles and bones), a rounder more smooth and slightly chubbier body might work better. Maybe somewhat in the direction of good ol' Morph, though maybe not that chubby and round ( http://www.aardman.com/showcase/amaz_fr.html ). Anyways, keep up the good work and looking forward to seeing your film next year.

 

(get's on with working on his own models that never get finished )

 

Ragnar

[MiddleKid]

Ragtag -

 

Thanks for the comments, I appreciate the specific critiques. Always better than a "that's great" or "that sucks" type of comment.

 

The main reason I'm upping the realism/detail in Clay is because I've been modeling his environment (for my short film) and the environment is very rich and detailed... The old Clay just didn't look like he fit in.

 

I can see your point with the detail work on the body. I was trying to add more detail and variety but still retain a "sculpted" look. It's a tricky balance, and I'm obviously not quite there yet.

 

Hmm... What to do? Well, I'm really happy with the way his head's turned out so I suppose I should re-work the body to make it match better. Yep... it's on my to-do list now!

 

Later,

[modernhorse]

so I suppose I should re-work the body to make it match better

 

My opinion is that i really like his slim build. Fits he and his voice I think, providing you'll be using the same voice as in your reel.

 

I think the clay look could be achieved by texturing, no?

 

I agree with Ragtag about the ears. Doesn't need them, but wouldn't hurt either.

 

Doug (a clay fan)

[MiddleKid]

Yeah, I'm definitely going to keep him pretty slender. His counterpart in the film is going to be a good bit thicker and more muscle-bound... not quite as smart though.

 

Much of the clay-like surface can be achieved through textures as can be seen in Clay's face (though I think it's still a bit too glossy) but, IMO, there's a difference between having an object with a particular surface and an object that "feels" like it's made out of a certain material. For example, if you wanted to make, say... a chair. Making one from wood and making one from steel would dictate certain aspects of your design.

 

Anyway, I'm going to do some tweaking this weekend and see if I can make some adjustments in the right direction.

 

Thanks Doug!

 

PS - not adding any ears. I kinda like ol' blockhead.

[MiddleKid]

Just a quick update before hitting the sack... The body has been tweaked a bit and has the base bump maps applied. (still working on the color maps) Also, a new two-point + skylight, lighting rig.

 

G'nite!

[tobinjim]

Hi Jay,

 

My kids were playing with clay today, and I think the swirl texture would help people's eyes clue in to the material. It might help to take two colors of clay, squish them into a ball, then roll them out in legs and arms and see how the swirls play out.

 

Okay, that was my girls' way of playing. My boy tends to press clumps together, an all together different look...

 

Jim

[HeadlessBill]

I like the last picture you posted, looks excellent. Though, I actually think the eyes he has on the poster, flat with a dot for a pupil in front, fit the design almost better than the ones you have now.

Actually, I like these eyes. I think the color should be a darker shade of his skin color rather than the orangish color it is now. But the final decision is really MiddleKid's.

[modernhorse]

MiddleKid,

I think this character is soooo expressive. His eyes are saying so much in that last pose.

 

My only minor crit would be his shins and biceps look a bit too pointy. Like there's some peaking on those splines. Looks like it would hurt. If that's a design decision well then i'll shut up. It probably is a design decision as you look like you know what you're doing with him so ........... I'll shut up.

 

Doug

[MiddleKid]

Thanks for the crits guys!

 

After looking at the pic through non-sleepy eyes this morning, I think Doug may be right about the sharp angles... Especially on the shins. I do want a semi-angular look but the creases under the kneecaps is a bit too much.

 

The eyes are the orange-ish color so that they stand out a bit more and the character doesn't look entirely monochrome.

 

While a swirl of color would be an interesting look, it's not exactly what I'm aiming for. Thanks for the tip though.

[littleandy]

Haha, what if you put faint fingerprint bumpmaps on him like someone actually sculpted him with their hands?

 

It looks great! And I went and watched your demo reel. That's awesome, too!

 

-Andrew

[modernhorse]

Oh where of where has our little Clay gone ... Oh where oh where can he be?????

[mooncaine]

If you're into making Clay look like he's made of clay, DarkTree has a really good clay texture, complete with little thumb dents [no actual fingerprint whorls], and it's a procedural texture, so you can get as close as you like to it with your camera.

 

Someone suggested he should have a cool surname. I vote for Clay Foote.