Transparent materials don't display transparent (v17)

[pixelplucker]

Not sure if others have this but when I make a material transparent, it doesn't display transparent. Might be my quadro card, not sure.

 

Basically I have to keep hiding the underlying mesh that I am doing a retopo to see where my patches are.

 

Any tips?

[robcat2075]

Possibly you have another group that is overriding the transparency?

[Fuchur]

Not sure if others have this but when I make a material transparent, it doesn't display transparent. Might be my quadro card, not sure.

 

Basically I have to keep hiding the underlying mesh that I am doing a retopo to see where my patches are.

 

Any tips?

 

This is comon. I just use the hybrid realtimerendering for that and make the underlying object wireframed and the new object shaded-fireframe or only shaded.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[John Bigboote]

I'm not understanding... it looks 70% transparent to me...

[pixelplucker]

I'm not understanding... it looks 70% transparent to me...

 

I can't see the patches that are co-planer to the obj file. You can see where they clip out as well as the settings on the side which seems to have no affect.

 

I'm thinking it's my vid card.

[Fuchur]

I'm not understanding... it looks 70% transparent to me...

 

I can't see the patches that are co-planer to the obj file. You can see where they clip out as well as the settings on the side which seems to have no affect.

 

I'm thinking it's my vid card.

 

I am thinking this is a limitation of realtimeviews in A:M / the version of OpenGL A:M is using.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[robcat2075]

Are you modeling that in a chor?

[pixelplucker]

Yes in the chor

[robcat2075]

Is that the only way the resplining tool works?

 

Does the transparency work any different in other views like birdseye, or in perspective vs. flat?

[robcat2075]

Other ideas... try the 32-bit version of A:M, try Direct3D instead of OpenGL.

[pixelplucker]

Transparency works in 15j+. Must be a bug.

My problem with the 32 bit version is the display only refreshes in a tiny square and I have to minimize and maximize my window.

[robcat2075]

I'm confused. I thought the problem was related to using retopology? If not, why are talking about coplanar patches?

[pixelplucker]

Transparent issue, when the patches are close (co-planer) or behind the reference obj they clip out. Transparency doesn't display properly in real time in the 64bit version of 17.

 

Was this an issue with 16 64bit?

 

I don't have 17 32 bit installed atm.

 

Anyone else have this issue? I am thinking it is a problem with the quadro series cards.

[robcat2075]

32-bit is just a download away!

[pixelplucker]

Just installed the 32 bit version of 17 and the transparency bug is in that one too.

15J+ transparency was fine so it is something that has been introduced since then.

 

guess it's a bug.

 

Curious if others have it.

[John Bigboote]

I see what you mean... the geometry disappears when it slips underneath the obj base that you are modelling over. Keep in mind, the retopology tool snaps the CPs to the surface, but it can't limit the connecting splines from penetrating... this would eventually work itself out once you add more geometry(CP's) that adhere to the surface, but at this early stage you would need to put-up with some of your geometry slipping under the base and disappearing like that.

[robcat2075]

Here's a test of an object with transparent materials at 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 0%

 

It seems to be all correct in shaded realtime mode

 

TransparencyTest01.prj

 

transp.mov

[Fuchur]

Here's a test of an object with transparent materials at 100%, 75%, 50%, 25%, 0%

 

It seems to be all correct in shaded realtime mode

 

TransparencyTest01.prj

 

transp.mov

 

This is a problem I reported which might be related:

A:M Report

 

I had this problems too before, but I am now using another graphiccard (newer generation, to be specific a ATI Radeon HD7850) and since than it is gone.

Is there a driver update you can install?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[Fuchur]

Is that the only way the resplining tool works?

 

Does the transparency work any different in other views like birdseye, or in perspective vs. flat?

 

No, but it is easier to work with it that way.

See my tutorial on my website about Retoplogy for the process:

Retopology-Tool

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

That is the tutorial I followed. Problem with adding more splines is I have to hide the prop in order to see the splines. They simply just don't show.

 

Compared to the tutorial, I can barely even see the cp's on my screen in the chor. The scene draw mode override also seems to be dysfunctional.

 

Guess for now I wait for a fix.

[Fuchur]

That is the tutorial I followed. Problem with adding more splines is I have to hide the prop in order to see the splines. They simply just don't show.

 

Compared to the tutorial, I can barely even see the cp's on my screen in the chor. The scene draw mode override also seems to be dysfunctional.

 

Guess for now I wait for a fix.

 

one thing u can do is to increase the cp size for cps.

 

*Fuchur*

 

PS: To get this sorted out I think you need to talk to Steffen... I am no longer experiencing this problem. It is in fact better for me than ever before... just tried another retoplogy and it looks great. Transparency is fully okay, etc.

[pixelplucker]

What video card are you using?

[robcat2075]

Does the transparency work any different in other views like birdseye, or in perspective vs. flat?

 

For Pixelplucker, the answer is "no", it looks the same in every possible view and zoom, right?

 

Just installed the 32 bit version of 17 and the transparency bug is in that one too.

15J+ transparency was fine so it is something that has been introduced since then.

 

This is why I'm not sure what we're talking about. V15 doesn't have retopology. Are we talking about transparency while retopology is being used or just transparency in general?

[Fuchur]

What video card are you using?

 

I have a new PowerColor PCS+ HD7850 2GB GDDR5 based on the ATI/AMD Radeon HD7850.

(quite new and good gaming-card)

 

Before I used a AMD/ATI HD 4870 1GB.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

I don't see any option for Direct X instead of OpenGL. Is this version OGL only?

[Fuchur]

I don't see any option for Direct X instead of OpenGL. Is this version OGL only?

 

A:M 64bit only uses Direct3d (not DirectX) to display stuff. I think it has to do with some dll-librarys which are not available for 64bit which are used by A:M.

 

See you

*Fuchur

[robcat2075]

I don't see any option for Direct X instead of OpenGL. Is this version OGL only?

 

try the 32-bit version of A:M, try Direct3D instead of OpenGL.

[pixelplucker]

Neither the 32 or 64 bit versions of 17 have direct x option here, just ogl.

 

Oddly version 15j+ the transparency works fine here. Something broke along the way. I probably should have jumped in on the beta but didn't have time to devote to this, sorry about that.

 

Overall 17 is really nice and rendering is sweet. Just stuck on the retopo till this is fixed.

[robcat2075]

I dunno... I get the choice in 32-bit A:M v17 still...

 

 

 

Is it possible your card doesn't' support Direct 3D and A:M just skips it then?

[robcat2075]

What does it look like when you load my test PRJ?

[pixelplucker]

Using an Nvidia Quadro 3700 with latest drivers. It supports all the open GL as well as all direct x.

Problem isn't with AM patches but rather the obj props that are imported.

[NancyGormezano]

It supports all the open GL as well as all direct x.

 

My understanding is that Direct X is not the same as Direct3D. Does your card support Direct3D?

 

I experience the same transparency problem with PROPS and transparency that you do, when trying to see the patches of A:M models thru the PROP. I have not tried Direct3D yet with 32 bit ver17.

 

However I just don't get this retopo stuff...Whenever I select patches in the chor of the model I am trying to create using an .obj prop as a 3D template - and I select "snap to surface" - I invariably get CPs that jump to the wrong surface. Some are correct - others are wrong. I must be doing something wrong, or not understanding the process at all.

[pixelplucker]

Yes my card supports direct 3d and open gl as well as the latest direct x. When I update the drivers it updates the compatibility of the card. I believe most of the desktop cards aren't upgradeable in that respect.

 

I think it is a material issue with imported meshes. If you compare an obj prop in version 15xx you will see the materials aren't as nice but transparency works fine. I never tried version 16 but in 17 32 and 64 the transparency doesn't render properly.

 

Retopo should work fine as long as you have a clean mesh that doesn't have surfaces that are close where the cp's might want to jump to. I would think that a shape inside another shape might have some problems.

 

I was hoping to use my 3d coat to rough out characters then retrace them in AM. I always had problems getting nice clean surfaces in AM after doing a lot of tweaking where creases start to form. I end up spending more time cleaning up the model detaching and reattaching cp's and diddling with bias handles than it takes to make the shape.

[Fuchur]

Yes my card supports direct 3d and open gl as well as the latest direct x. When I update the drivers it updates the compatibility of the card. I believe most of the desktop cards aren't upgradeable in that respect.

 

I think it is a material issue with imported meshes. If you compare an obj prop in version 15xx you will see the materials aren't as nice but transparency works fine. I never tried version 16 but in 17 32 and 64 the transparency doesn't render properly.

 

Retopo should work fine as long as you have a clean mesh that doesn't have surfaces that are close where the cp's might want to jump to. I would think that a shape inside another shape might have some problems.

 

I was hoping to use my 3d coat to rough out characters then retrace them in AM. I always had problems getting nice clean surfaces in AM after doing a lot of tweaking where creases start to form. I end up spending more time cleaning up the model detaching and reattaching cp's and diddling with bias handles than it takes to make the shape.

 

Hi both,

 

I attached a sample-project of mine. Please see the project and the model and let me know if it is working for you.

In there are 3 screenshots of my realtime-views of the chor. Lets see if that looks totally different for you.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

 

PS: @Nancy: You need to be careful and know what you are doing. Otherwise it won't work properly, but for me it is no big trouble working with SnapToSurface. It works 99% of the time as I expect it to work... sometimes I need to move the CP I created a gain because it did not snap to the surface for the first time, but it is really very rare that that happens and after moving it a little bit it always works.

retopology.zip

[robcat2075]

So the problem is not really "transparency", it's OBJs with transparency.

 

Can you post a sample OBJ?

 

My understanding is that Direct X is not the same as Direct3D. Does your card support Direct3D?

 

Direct3D is a subset of DirectX, one of many DirectX things like DirectDraw. There's even a DirectMusic.

[pixelplucker]

here is the file I was working on.

retopotestprj.zip

[NancyGormezano]

here's my views: Birdseye, backview in the chor - note that only 1 side of the prop appears transparent.

 

Also in the model window view of the prop, one of the eyes changes from visible to not visible as I navigate around the model

 

EDIT: I have old drivers, only puny 256MB RAM on card, so I could expect my system to not be right...but Pixelpucker has new drivers and a big new whoopdedoo graphics card

Edited August 10, 2012 by NancyGormezano

[pixelplucker]

Odd I loaded Fuchurs file and transparency works on his. His materials don't work on my prj... Was that prj created sometime before the public release of 17? Would that matter?

 

here is my settings.....

 

I'm stumped on this one

[robcat2075]

In V17 I get the same effect Pixelplucker does at anything besides 100% transparency.

 

I can't test it much in v15 or v16 because the OBJ comes in in a completely different size and location, not matching the mdl portion.

[Fuchur]

Odd I loaded Fuchurs file and transparency works on his. His materials don't work on my prj... Was that prj created sometime before the public release of 17? Would that matter?

 

here is my settings.....

 

I'm stumped on this one

 

I am not sure... it may have been created in an alpha-state, but I resaved it recently with the newest v17...

I thought that it would be an AMD vs Nvidia thing... but if it is working with this project, I dont see why it should not work with the other...

Maybe it has something to do with the OBJ? Possible Normals which are saved with the obj or not or something like that?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

I checked the normals and they are all facing out.. Thought that might have been it but it wasn't. I decimated the model thinking maybe it had too many faces and that didn't do it either.

 

Does my prj work on yours Fuchur? Might be an ati/nvidia thing

[Fuchur]

Odd I loaded Fuchurs file and transparency works on his. His materials don't work on my prj... Was that prj created sometime before the public release of 17? Would that matter?

 

here is my settings.....

 

I'm stumped on this one

 

I am not sure... it may have been created in an alpha-state, but I resaved it recently with the newest v17...

I thought that it would be an AMD vs Nvidia thing... but if it is working with this project, I dont see why it should not work with the other...

Maybe it has something to do with the OBJ? Possible Normals which are saved with the obj or not or something like that?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

 

Just tried it with your file and had the same problems. I would suggest to use the obj in wireframe and the patchmodel in shaded-wireframe... that way it should be doable.

Anyway this could be a good thing for an A:M report... steffen may be able to see what the difference between our files / projects / whaterver is and may be able to solve the thing that is causing this.

I'll write a report.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[pixelplucker]

Thanks Fuchur, forcing wireframe is a good workaround, though it can be a little hard to see at times at least it's usable. Must be the difference of how ATI and Nvidia handle Open GL.

[robcat2075]

So it's something about the specific OBJ that causes the problem?

 

I know it's time consuming, but if you imported the OBJ as a model rather than as a Prop, would the transparency work correctly then?

[mtpeak2]

I think this is a memory issue. If I import both objects into the chor, they both have issues. If I hide the generic prop, the elf prop is fine.

 

If you can reduce the poly count on the generic object, it may be fine.

[Fuchur]

I think this is a memory issue. If I import both objects into the chor, they both have issues. If I hide the generic prop, the elf prop is fine.

 

If you can reduce the poly count on the generic object, it may be fine.

 

That would be possible... I have 2GB of V-RAM here and 16 GB of RAM, so I should have a quite high amount compared to other with only 256 MB... but it would really eat a lot... I cant see the prop of pixelplucker correctly neighter.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[NancyGormezano]

PS: @Nancy: You need to be careful and know what you are doing. Otherwise it won't work properly, but for me it is no big trouble working with SnapToSurface. It works 99% of the time as I expect it to work... sometimes I need to move the CP I created a gain because it did not snap to the surface for the first time, but it is really very rare that that happens and after moving it a little bit it always works.

 

Hooo hooo! You guessed that right. I have figured out what I was doing wrong. Yay!

 

It seems I did not have the little new "snap to surface" icon depressed BEFORE I started splining the new model (somehow I missed that crucial step in your video). When I did that - all became wonderful! The clouds parted and the birds began to sing.

 

The problem I had been running into (and still) is that I would create some new patches close to the obj template model, then select those patches, right click (while patches were selected) and select "snap group to surface" option. Not a good idea. That is when things get weird. Some of the cps snap to a far surface, and some don't. It's not clear how to control that.

 

But at least the original laying down of splines on top of a 3D obj template/prop seems to work better. It's the post-"snap group to surface" that works wonkily.

[pixelplucker]

It can't be a memory issue since even just a cube has the same issue. It has to be the difference between ATI and Nvidia. Seems that when this was tested it was only really tested on an ATI card and testers that used Nvidia cards never noticed the difference.

 

I picked up on the difference when I watched the tutorial and could see the patches and splines on the tutorial but they became obstructed when I tried on my system.

 

This should be fixed because it is a bug.