thumperness Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 So I have mastered modeling a vase (pronounced Voz) and wanted to move on to something a little more complicated. This is also somewhat of a test for me to see if I have embedded everything into my project so it can all be downloaded by you guys. There should be 2 rotoscopes and 1 spline in this project. The handle of the bow should be approx. 15cm tall/high. The question is: What would be my best approach to modeling at least the handle of this thing? I'm not necessarily looking for someone to just do it for me, but I'd like some instruction as to how to approach this thing. I'm guessing there should be some extrusion involved, but I do not have a top view of this handle, if it would help me anyway. I feel lucky having found the pictures I did. Beginnings of a project I was originally looking at complex compound bows that have holes all over their bodies. I may need to wait just a little but before tackling one of those. I'd love to figure out how to animate the offset wheels and keep the string on the wheels etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 21, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 21, 2011 Remember that PRJs only contain links to their images. I f you put the images in a zip with the PRJ we'll get it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperness Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 OK. Made it a zip file now. I thought if we embedded the project it would include everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelplucker Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Embedding isn't all that great, I had another program that would do that and made updates a pain and the file was just bigger and bloated. Collecting the files is always a better approach. I have a directory of models, directory of textures another for materials. If I improve a texture or model all my previous projects get updated. If I need a variation I just make a copy of that model or texture and save those out. It might seem like more work but in the long run it's much more efficient. With AM stuff in particular I take the collected files, simplify the directories by have one folder for parts and pictures, next to that directory I have the PRJ. I open the PRJ and re-find the parts in the new folder and zip it all up. Makes it a little easier than have the people that download the files go looking for c:/current_user/on_occasion/some_folder/burried/on_my_hard_drive/when_I_feel_like_it/etc_etc/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted October 22, 2011 Admin Share Posted October 22, 2011 I thought if we embedded the project it would include everything? Everything except image files. Most of A:M's files are text files and strictly speaking, text files cannot store image files. They must be maintained and referenced externally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*A:M User* Roger Posted October 22, 2011 *A:M User* Share Posted October 22, 2011 I opened your .PRJ file but there is no .jpg for the roto. If it is anything like this, though, what I would do is extrude along a path for the upper and lower limbs. The hand grip, if it is like this one is going to be trickier. Probably what you would want to do is place splines along the outside (trace the grip, I guess) and then extrude that up 3 or 4 times. That will give you some points to work with so that you can match the contour of the grip from the front view. The left and right sides of the grip will not have any patches, so you will need to stitch those in manually. I'm still learning myself so I'm not sure how much this helps you, but that is the way I would start. There may be a better way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 22, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 22, 2011 That's a great object for extruding. A great object for spline modeling. Roger is on the right track by suggesting extruding and I think you can do the whole thing with extrusion. For the hand grip portion, study the shape closely and know what the cross section shapes are. Start with the shape at eh bottom of the handle. I bet 8 or maybe even just 4 CPs could shape it. then extrude that once and reshape the new loop to match the shape of the cross section at the next major land mark. then extrude again to the next part. Just giving it a quick look I'd think the major spline rings might land where I've marked in blue, basically where ever the contour starts changing again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 OK. Made it a zip file now. I thought if we embedded the project it would include everything? In general, A:M can embed all the files that has been created in itself. If you import textures, movie-files or audio-files into A:M, they are not saved in the projectfile itself but are referenced from where you imported them. "Embed All" doesn't embed them into the project. (which is very good, because the filessizes would be unhandy if you had to save in versions with all rotoscope-videos embedded in the file. That would only save the same data over and over again. However if you want to make your project available for another person, there is another method to do it which is very handy: A:M can do the embedding for you, if you wish too and without really embedding it for your original projectfile (very handy for giving a project to someone else). For that go to "Project > Consolidate". The non-zip-option will create a new folder-structure at the destination you choose and consolidate everything into it. (all files will be copied, not moved) The second one will do the same but zip the folder-structure afterwards. See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Reynolds Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 The hardest part is going to be around the arrow rest so start there, the rest will be simple shaping. I bet 8 or maybe even just 4 CPs could shape it. That's probably true but I'd suggest you start with 12 as shown in the image. Once you're satisfied with the model you can either delete the side splines, if you decide it doesn't need them, or you can terminate them as hooks once you're into the simpler cross sections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Reynolds Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I'm not necessarily looking for someone to just do it for me I totally understand; "give a man a fish ... teach him to fish ..." and all that. Having said that, this looked like an interesting modeling exercise so I took a crack at filling in the centre section of the previous model. I'd be happy to post the results. It's your call. (hint: Using 12 CPs, at least in the lower section, pays dividends.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperness Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Post away Roger. I have been asking about beveling and it looks like you did alot of beveling on these. Was that just out of habit or why use it here? It seems that this handle is mainly curvey, though some of the curves are pretty tight. Why bevel vs. use the bias handles? This isn't a critique, I just wanna learn when to use what. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperness Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Just giving it a quick look I'd think the major spline rings might land where I've marked in blue, basically where ever the contour starts changing again. I have to assume the direction of your blue lines are intentional. Some of them seem counter-intuitive to me, so help me understand. Counting from the bottom, the 3rd and 4th lines seem to be going against the direction of the bend in the handle. (As do lines further up) What's the theory here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 23, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 23, 2011 I interpreted the dark slash on the picture as the surface suddenly sloping so you'd need a spline at the start and end of the slope which is what the two blue lines attempted to stake out. I could be judging that entirely wrong. I probably am. However, you need to know that shape before you model it or you'll never know when you've got it. You might look up more, clearer reference pics. Or perhaps you have that bow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Reynolds Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Post away... You asked for it; four views and the model itself. Why bevel vs. use the bias handles? To me, it's not an "either/or" choice; accurate beveling (or filleting) still demands bias adjustment. I used your roto images without doing any more research into the actual shape of the bow. Based on those, it looked like there were a number of corners at the arrow rest and to me that means rounded edges. To meet my expectations of what a rounded edge should look like, it gets defined with two CPs. The model still needs a ton of bias tweaking to get all the surfaces shaped correctly. And as shown in the second image, if you want to put a curve in the front of the model by moving the CPs forward along the red arrow, you can only get a nice arc by biasing the CPs at the either end. Was that just out of habit... I'd guess 95% of the times I've tried to reduce patch count (and my labour) by using just bias values to define a corner, I've been dissatisfied with the final realism of the model. Broadly speaking, every object I've wanted to accurately model can be subdivided into features that must be defined by CPs at their beginning and end. Any corner of any size, that isn't razor sharp, is just another feature. bow_test.mdl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelplucker Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 The bow grip is actually much rounder. You definitely should model it by extrusions. The grip portion is very round and almost made of an oval profile rather than the harsh bevels. You could model the whole grip so it's very organic except where the arrow rests. I made a real recurve bow grip, limbs and string. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Reynolds Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 ...much rounder. You definitely should model it by extrusions. You say that as though extrusions are the only possible way to model corners with large radii. I find your lack of faith (in my model) disturbing. Beautiful woodworking by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixelplucker Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Nahh, your a far better mechanical modeler in AM than I am. I posted the pics so people can see the extreme shape variations. I always have trouble with bias handles moving after I get things set the way I want and find myself going back and adjusting them. Wish there was a way of selecting certain cp's and freezing their position and bias angles. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperness Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 OK. I'm actually quite happy with my 1st attempt here. See Attached Thoughts? I'm also having issues putting a wood material on it. Can't seem to get the grain to show up. I may post about that on a different thread though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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