bubba Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Scanning the Change Log, I see that Steffen has made 20 fixes so far. Is there a cut-off as to how many changes are made before the next version is released? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Scanning the Change Log, I see that Steffen has made 20 fixes so far. Is there a cut-off as to how many changes are made before the next version is released? Just wondering. That is up to Steffen and differs from update to update. If there are for example many bugreports which are related to eachother you will get a huge amount of changes in the change log. Sometimes you don't. I could imagine that he will leave the v16a open for some time because it is likely that there will be no more v16 updates after that. (-> compiler had to be changed for Mac-compatibility-reasons and Steffen can't find the time to maintain 2 versions of A:M at the same time). See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 [... because it is likely that there will be no more v16 updates after that. (-> compiler had to be changed for Mac-compatibility-reasons ... See you *Fuchur* Thanks. Ah question: not being a programmer, what compiler? And does that mean that A:M is "dead" for the Mac, or stalled out a version 16.a, or is 17 on the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [... because it is likely that there will be no more v16 updates after that. (-> compiler had to be changed for Mac-compatibility-reasons ... See you *Fuchur* Thanks. Ah question: not being a programmer, what compiler? A compiler is a "program" that translates C# or most other programing languages to machine code and "pack it" to an exe-file (for windows) / application-file. That means code that is no longer readable by our eyes but readable for computers. Gcc is a well known compiler available for linux windows and mac. Steffen changed the compiler to gcc 4.2 (from 4.0) because the new apple os doesnt support the gcc 4.0 anymore. (there is more trouble with that because 4.2 has a bug... Apple however doesnt support 4.4 for now... Hope that helps a little... See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
largento Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 v17 is on the way and *will* work on the Mac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 So, we Mac guys are not SOL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 So, we Mac guys are not SOL? Yep, v17 is in the making and will be available for both OSes... (SOL = Shit out of luck... had to google that one ) See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Aren't idioms and acronyms fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 29, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 29, 2011 It will get here when it gets here and it will do what it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 It will get here when it gets here and it will do what it does. So A:M runs on Navaho time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I can't believe we are talking about a V17 when V16 is so new and fresh and full of new belles and whustles to be explored... I kinda see why Martin threw-up his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [... because it is likely that there will be no more v16 updates after that. (-> compiler had to be changed for Mac-compatibility-reasons ... See you *Fuchur* Thanks. Ah question: not being a programmer, what compiler? And does that mean that A:M is "dead" for the Mac, or stalled out a version 16.a, or is 17 on the way? This is only a misunderstanding: A:M for Mac and for Windows share more or less the same codebase. So this is only one codebase / version. Mac doesnt allow gcc 4.0 in future. V16 is however compiled with that compiler. If both versions would be maintained (v16 and v17), steffen would have to do twice the work - not possible for him. Because of that he decided to go to v17 as soon as possible. That is the whole thing behind it. Nobody is left behind, apple is just making it harder for the programmers... And forces them to switch... *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 29, 2011 Admin Share Posted May 29, 2011 Bubba, Why are you looking for (hoping for?) the end of the world here? It's a tribute to Hash Inc and Steffen Gross's commitment to you that Mac Users are being taken care of. While I understand the need to survey the future... I do that too... I believe the most appropriate response for their effort is "Thanks!" Everyone wishing to see A:M prosper and Steffen Gross be properly compensated for his effort is free to show their support by purchasing additional licenses. Add a comment when you purchase, "This one's for you and your Mac support Steffen. Thanks!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Rodney, I am not sure what is going on here. My original question was very simple, when will version 16a be released because it will fix some of the problems that I have encountered and reported to Steffen. I have nothing but admiration for Steffen and his work. If you have read the other post in the OFF TOPIC section I think you will see this. Fuchur said that we probably will not see version 16a for some time because of a compiler change. Not being a programmer I don't understand the significance of changing compilers - and when a responder says that Apple does NOT support (not yet) such-and-such a compiler I get worried; because now that I have the time to spend on A:M ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 30, 2011 Admin Share Posted May 30, 2011 Thanks for the clarification. To understand what is going on here it may be worth noting that others will read into what you've written and run with that. Example: When Ken Baer left... a whole section of Mac Users left with him because 'they could not see' the future of Mac support for A:M. After all, wasn't Ken the only one who could code for the Mac in A:M? Don't get me wrong. Ken's a great guy. He brought me into the A:M Forum as a moderator... and he is missed... but who can keep programmers working where there isn't sufficient support for them? What Ken Baer put into A:M speaks for itself and remains his legacy. He was a part of CG history with A:M. Perhaps after he retires from the work-a-day world he'll be able to return again. But back to the real world of the present... Steffen Gross picked up the torch of programming (both the PC and Mac platforms) and has really been running with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Bubba, Everyone wishing to see A:M prosper and Steffen Gross be properly compensated for his effort is free to show their support by purchasing additional licenses. Add a comment when you purchase, "This one's for you and your Mac support Steffen. Thanks!" I am still hoping to hear about Slave upgrades for Netrender. If these could be dedicated (and sent) to Steffen that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 30, 2011 Admin Share Posted May 30, 2011 I am still hoping to hear about Slave upgrades for Netrender. If these could be dedicated (and sent) to Steffen that would be great. Can you clarify what you are hoping to hear concerning the Slave upgrades for Netrender? Also, I understand obtaining this information is a condition of purchasing additional licenses? You need that information in order to make a purchasing decision? If that is the case, Steffen has already expressed here in the forum that he has nothing to do with licensing. For licensing options you'd have to contact Hash Inc. Support-wise for v17... you just login to the Hash store and purchase another subscription. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 30, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 30, 2011 16a is coming real quick and that will likely be the last 16. That's why I did the thread about "speak now" for v16. Once that last 16 is out it will be on to v17 for Steffen. Compilers... Programs like A:M are not written entirely from scratch. There are many premade "libraries" it incorporates and sends info to for certain things like putting windows up on the screen and keeping them updated or for reading and writing file formats or for dealing with OpenGL or Quicktime, or for trying to transfer certain computations from a one CPU environment to a multi-CPU environment and these libraries may not be the same depending on whether you're compiling A:M for the Mac or the PC. Some libraries that do things you'd like to do won't work together even though they "should". Many libraries that existed for the PC did not exist for Mac and Hash had to create those from scratch so A:M could still be compiled for Mac and have the same features as PC. Those may get broken and need to be debugged as the Mac OS changes. Any library may be broken when an OS is updated. Steffen's task is to identify everything that will do what needs to be done and will actually work. That's my informal explanation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 I am still hoping to hear about Slave upgrades for Netrender. If these could be dedicated (and sent) to Steffen that would be great. Can you clarify what you are hoping to hear concerning the Slave upgrades for Netrender? Also, I understand obtaining this information is a condition of purchasing additional licenses? You need that information in order to make a purchasing decision? If that is the case, Steffen has already expressed here in the forum that he has nothing to do with licensing. For licensing options you'd have to contact Hash Inc. Support-wise for v17... you just login to the Hash store and purchase another subscription. I understand that Steffen has nothing to do with licensing - Jason controls that. And yes, knowing what the delta cost for more Render Slaves would be nice to know. I have looked on the Hash website and see nothing yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 30, 2011 Admin Share Posted May 30, 2011 I understand that Steffen has nothing to do with licensing - Jason controls that. And yes, knowing what the delta cost for more Render Slaves would be nice to know. I have looked on the Hash website and see nothing yet. I don't think it's been decided yet. I see any delay in that decision as being good for us as users, that's why I'm being patient. Once the licensing is locked in... it's pay to play. In the old days I'd say the decision would likely be made not later than SIGGRAPH... but I think the big event these days is Comic Con. Not sure what date that event takes place this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 According to the Hash calendar it is mid-July. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 Example: When Ken Baer left... a whole section of Mac Users left with him because 'they could not see' the future of Mac support for A:M. After all, wasn't Ken the only one who could code for the Mac in A:M? Don't get me wrong. Ken's a great guy. He brought me into the A:M Forum as a moderator... and he is missed... but who can keep programmers working where there isn't sufficient support for them? What Ken Baer put into A:M speaks for itself and remains his legacy. He was a part of CG history with A:M. Perhaps after he retires from the work-a-day world he'll be able to return again. I had the pleasure of meeting Ken Baer at a Macworld (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth ) As for Mac users panicking when he left I can sort of see this because at that time wasn't Apple still using Motorola chips? If so, it would have required a different programming skill set. Now that Apple is using the Intel chip, and a compiler translate high level code into machine language, as some one said earlier, the code base is basically the same, just the system calls are different (save/open etc.) Yes, if there were five programmers still taking care of Animation:Master I can't even imagine what the program could do. Probably you just dictate into a microphone how you wanted to draw an object and the program would do it. Sort of like StarTrek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted May 30, 2011 Hash Fellow Share Posted May 30, 2011 The coding transition to Intel Mac got accomplished before the main crew left. As far as all those people leaving, I think it was mostly just the economic reality that A:M couldn't support six programmers anymore. They had to move on to something that would pay the bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 Now that Apple is in the process of releasing XCode 4.2, what will be the impact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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