tga sequences and sound

[bubba]

I have a question about sound in TARGA sequences. After rendering a choreography as .tga there is one more file - .tga.sinfo. I am guessing that this is the sound information. When I import the sequences in Quicktime 7, only the video images are imported. If I import the sequences back into A:M and then "Save Animation As ..." and select .mov the sound again is left out. What do I need to do. Thanks.

[NancyGormezano]

Simplest: If you have Quicktime Pro (you may be able to do this with regular QT, but I can't test):

 

1) Import your image sequence or QT mov (without sound) into QT Pro in a QT player

2) open up your audio in another QT player. EDIT/Select All/Copy the audio

3) In the QT player with the image sequence, go to first frame - EDIT/Add to movie

4) Save result as QT movie, with compression method of your choice.

 

or All A:M solution (there are other ways probably, but I always use the previous method):

 

1) import image sequence

2) import sound file

3) start new chor, delete ground

4) right click on camera NEW/Rotoscope/image sequence

5) drag sound file to this chor

6) render to file (1 pass) - not sure about # of passes

[bubba]

I opened the file .tga.sinfo in Text Wrangler and it is NOT a sound file. It is just some instructions pointing back to the actual files stored on my hard drive. Since I used two different sound files and staggered them in the choreography there is no one single sound file to open in Quicktime Pro.

 

Creating a new choreography just to re-save the animation seems like an extra step. Once the sequence is imported in A:M has the option to "Save Animation As ..." Since all the frames are imported and the sound information file is "sequence name.tga.sinfo" I would think that it would be imported also. When I looked inside the .info file there were keys as to where in the timeline the sounds should be applied. So, why doesn't saving from the Image folder also save the audio?

[NancyGormezano]

I opened the file .tga.sinfo in Text Wrangler and it is NOT a sound file. It is just some instructions pointing back to the actual files stored on my hard drive. Since I used two different sound files and staggered them in the choreography there is no one single sound file to open in Quicktime Pro.

 

Creating a new choreography just to re-save the animation seems like an extra step. Once the sequence is imported in A:M has the option to "Save Animation As ..." Since all the frames are imported and the sound information file is "sequence name.tga.sinfo" I would think that it would be imported also. When I looked inside the .info file there were keys as to where in the timeline the sounds should be applied. So, why doesn't saving from the Image folder also save the audio?

 

Like I said above: there are many solutions. You can work with QT pro and multiple audio tracks, but I won't go into the details. I hesitate to give you any more information.

 

However, here is the all A:M way:

 

Yes, you will have to do extra steps, when you render to a tga (or png) sequence. As you found out, the sinfo file is just a text file. I thought you already knew that.

 

Start with your old chor, delete (or make inactive) all the animation, models, leave just the sound tracks, import your tga sequence as a camera roto, and render to a mov. You will have to set your compression. You were having problems with A:M and compression, and movs, I thought? That is why I use QT pro.

 

Or if you don't like that, you could render just the audio from your A:M chor to a mov file, and use that to copy and paste in QT to the mov of the imported tga sequence.

 

I am sure others can offer you other solutions. All of which will involve extra steps. I do not use the sinfo file.

 

You're welcome.

[bubba]

Those are fine suggestions Nancy. I am just wondering though why the file is created in the first place, if it cannot be used anywhere. Seems a waste of code.

 

Yes I did have some problems with A:M rendering/compression but was shown how to access all the different compressors on my machine. I now use H.264 as my primary compression algorithm.

[NancyGormezano]

Those are fine suggestions Nancy. I am just wondering though why the file is created in the first place, if it cannot be used anywhere. Seems a waste of code.

 

I am not sure if they were used in production of Scarecrow of Oz, or Tinwoodman of Oz - but since it has the audio file info and the range of frames in which the audio was used for a chor, I am guessing that the info could be manually used (like notes) when editing everything together in a NLE (premier, Aftereffects, qt), and makes the task of syncing the audio easier.

 

I do not have a sinfo file handy to see actually what's in one. There may be a way to use it in A:M, but I am not aware of it currently. It may have been planned, but never implemented for all I know.

[bubba]

Here is mine.

 

WarHawk13000.doc

 

I noticed that it has the base name WarHawk13000 that I used as the file name. The actual .tgas only have WarHawk0000. Don't know if this is a coincidence or not.

 

Do you think my question is getting enough exposure?

[NancyGormezano]

Do you think my question is getting enough exposure?

 

The only one who might have used sinfo files are Homeslice or maybe Martin at one time. I truly believe NO ONE else has considered using them. I could be wrong. If anyone had used them, I suspect they would be chiming in.

[bubba]

Start with your old chor, delete (or make inactive) all the animation, models, leave just the sound tracks, import your tga sequence as a camera roto, and render to a mov.

 

 

Nancy, I just tried importing a tga sequence into a blank choreography as a rotoscope and it would not play!. I tired it again as a layer and everything was fine. I thought this issue was fixed in the release version of 16?

[NancyGormezano]

Start with your old chor, delete (or make inactive) all the animation, models, leave just the sound tracks, import your tga sequence as a camera roto, and render to a mov.

 

 

Nancy, I just tried importing a tga sequence into a blank choreography as a rotoscope and it would not play!. I tired it again as a layer and everything was fine. I thought this issue was fixed in the release version of 16?

 

I was not aware it was a problem, as I haven't encountered this problem (PC). Did it not work if you tried to play it in real-time, or did it not work when you tried to render it?

 

EDIT: perhaps you need to set the frame number of the sequence on the first and last frames?

 

If it works as layer for you - then use layer?

 

The easiest for me has always been QT pro.

[bubba]

The easiest for me has always been QT pro.

 

I use QT Pro also to combine the sequences, but I am left without the sound. I have not tried rendering out just the sound yet.

[robcat2075]

.sinfo files do have something to do with attaching sound to renders but I don't know how they are intended to work.

 

I've sent an email to Martin asking him about it since he may be the only person seen successfully using them. No guarantees. I haven't heard directly from him in a year.

 

 

When I need to render something with sound I render to uncompressed AVI and then recompress that in QT Pro. Of course that's not advisable in situations where you might have VERY long render times per frame, but for modest renders it suffices.

[bubba]

I converted one to a .doc file and posted it in this thread above. It is a reference file listing the sound file names and paths as well as size of the the sound clip and the frames it is assigned to.

 

Earlier I was asking questions about rendering and whatnot and the majority of advisers said I should render out as TARGA then import the file back in and then render to MOVIE, as it will be much quicker the second time. If you do that, import a sequence and then "Save animation as ..." and use Quicktime to render the movie, there is no bloody sound. That is where I think this file comes in. I have tried to import the file but A:M says that there is no plugin for this type of file - maybe at some time in the past. I checked Steffen Gross's plugin web page but did not see anything.

 

If this file is NOT for A:M then it should be compatible with Quicktime - but it is not.

[NancyGormezano]

If this file is NOT for A:M then it should be compatible with Quicktime - but it is not.

 

The file is particular to A:M only. No other program knows about it. Only Martin knows about it. And maybe Steffen, and maybe Holmes.

 

As far as I know: NO OTHER PROGRAM USES IT.

 

You are wasting your time trying to use it. The people who were saying to render to tga sequences, png sequence, avi (uncompressed) were also assuming you understood how to sync sound in some other external non-linear-editing software like QT pro, premiere, aftereffects, etc.

 

Robert's suggestion of going to avi with sound, and then compressing (H264) to mov with QT pro was to give you a path that might be simpler for you for rendering SHORT animations, that you might want to post to this forum. It is not recommended usually for doing any kind of long production. It is always better to render to tga, png, to avoid having to rerender 1000's of frames.

[robcat2075]

In Theory... the .sinfo file is used automatically by A:M when you import a TGA sequence that was rendered in A:M, no need to load it separately to get sound in.

 

However, in my brief test, that doesn't work as i expect. It must have worked in V14 since that's when the feature last go a lot of use. If any one has V14 they might check this out.

 

In the meantime...

 

-render to targas if you wish to do so for safety.

-render again to AVI in shaded mode (for speed)

 

then in QTPro...

 

-extract the Audio track from the AVI file

-"Select ALL" and copy that extracted audio

 

-open the TGA sequence

-Select All

-CTRL+SHIFT+ALT+V to paste the audio onto the TGA sequence

-recompress/export as desired

[bubba]

Robert's suggestion of going to avi with sound, and then compressing (H264) to mov with QT pro was to give you a path that might be simpler for you for rendering SHORT animations, that you might want to post to this forum. It is not recommended usually for doing any kind of long production. It is always better to render to tga, png, to avoid having to rerender 1000's of frames.

 

With Netrender now standard with A:M (at least 2 instances) it "should" cut the render time in half for TARGA sequences. And A:M can be used on some other animation at the same time.

 

I have not tried to render anything as .AVI. Can I do my short 6 second "film" on low resolution and still get "good" audio?

 

 

EDIT: Ah, how do I render as .avi? That format does not show up when I open the Render to File". Is it Windows specific?

[robcat2075]

the res wont' affect the audio track.

 

Can I do my short 6 second "film" on low resolution and still get "good" audio?

 

 

EDIT: Ah, how do I render as .avi? That format does not show up when I open the Render to File". Is it Windows specific?

 

Oh, you're on mac. So you get Quicktime as a choice then, right? Use that instead where I said AVI.

 

On PC we dont' get Quicktime in 64-bit A:M (yet).

[bubba]

Yes on the Mac thing. You are also correct that the size of the video does not affect the audio portion. Rendered out very, very quickly. Took some playing around in Quicktime Player (not Quicktime X) but I got it together.

[robcat2075]

Try this and see if it works

 

unzip this to your computer

 

SinfoTest.zip

 

It contains a TGA sequence, a WAV and a .sinfo file

 

Start a new PRJ in A:M

 

import the TGA sequence into the Images folder as an image sequence

 

create a new CHOR

 

drag the image sequence into the camera view, choose "Rotoscope" when asked. It should then ask if you want to "import and link sounds...", choose yes.

 

the CHOR should now have a WAV to match the TGA sequence which appears in the camera view

[NancyGormezano]

woo hooo - mystery solved!

[markw]

Try this and see if it works

 

unzip this to your computer

 

SinfoTest.zip

 

It contains a TGA sequence, a WAV and a .sinfo file

 

Start a new PRJ in A:M

 

import the TGA sequence into the Images folder as an image sequence

 

create a new CHOR

 

drag the image sequence into the camera view, choose "Rotoscope" when asked. It should then ask if you want to "import and link sounds...", choose yes.

 

the CHOR should now have a WAV to match the TGA sequence which appears in the camera view

 

Hi there Robcat. Thought I would try this out as well.

I've downloaded your zip file and tried the steps you suggest but I'm afraid it's not working for me.

It all works up to dragging the image sequence into the camera view.

AM won't let me nor let me drop it onto the new CHOR in the PWS.

I'm using AMv16 on a Mac so if Bubba or anyone ells out there on a Mac could try it.

It would be interesting to see if its just me doing it wrong. Here's a screen-capture of me trying it.

SinfoTest_Screen_Recording.mov

[Fuchur]

You imported it as image, not as image-sequence.

 

Please import it clicking Right on the folder "images" and choose "Import Image Sequence".

Then click on the first image only and click import.

 

Best wishes

*Fuchur*

[markw]

Thanks Fuchar that worked!

So here it is again for the benefit of any other users. This is how it should go and the dialog windows you should see when doing it.

Sinfo_Screen_Recording_2.mp4

[bubba]

Try this and see if it works

 

unzip this to your computer

 

SinfoTest.zip

 

It contains a TGA sequence, a WAV and a .sinfo file

 

Start a new PRJ in A:M

 

import the TGA sequence into the Images folder as an image sequence

 

create a new CHOR

 

drag the image sequence into the camera view, choose "Rotoscope" when asked. It should then ask if you want to "import and link sounds...", choose yes.

 

the CHOR should now have a WAV to match the TGA sequence which appears in the camera view

 

That seems to be a lot of extra steps. On a non-sound image sequence, all you have to do after importing the sequence is to and select "Save Animation As ..." and bingo, out pops a movie, very very quickly.

[robcat2075]

That seems to be a lot of extra steps. On a non-sound image sequence, all you have to do after importing the sequence is to and select "Save Animation As ..." and bingo, out pops a movie, very very quickly.

 

True. This is really the procedure for importing image sequences that have associated sound in to A:M for the purpose of using it in A:M's NLE functionality. Which I didn't think even worked at all until I found this workflow.

 

Ultimately, A:M doesn't give you access to Quicktime's audio compression possibilities, so if you really want a nice Quicktime from your animation with sound I recommend either of the two methods I mentioned previously.