To Bump or not To Bump

[MJL]

I've been taking another run at bump maps. I made a bump stencil and put blur on it in Corel. I put it on as a bump map on the model and did a render lock on the model and it looked fine, but when I did a render to file it barely showed as a shadow trace on the surface.

 

Is it because I have a material on the Vase? Why would it render one way in render lock and another in render to file?

[Eric2575]

Is the material a Simbiont by any chance? If so, you need to turn off bump in the simbionts bump properties. That will allow your applied bump map to look the way it's supposed to.

 

I like your vase style, very creative.

[photoman]

Try rendering to multipass if you arent. I heard there are some issues with the AA render and bumps.

 

Photoman

[MJL]

Thank you Eric and Josh,

 

The material is indeed a Simbiont so I switched off the bump enable in the material but it rendered the same, so I turned it back on and switched on multipass and that did the trick. .

 

Glad you liked the vase, Eric, with that Rustysteel material on it, the vase has sort of a Raku look.

 

Thanks again, guys.

[steve392]

Thats a nice looking Vase I realy like the matt,suits it very well

[robcat2075]

The material is indeed a Simbiont so I switched off the bump enable in the material but it rendered the same, so I turned it back on and switched on multipass and that did the trick. .

 

 

Submit a sample PRJ that shows the problem to AMReports. Bump maps are a fundamental that ought to work in regular renders.

[Eric2575]

If you set multi to one pass, it should take about the same time as no pass and hopefully the bump will work.

What is the vase for?

[NancyGormezano]

Submit a sample PRJ that shows the problem to AMReports. Bump maps are a fundamental that ought to work in regular renders.

 

It's a good idea to submit another report (with simple case, different material) - I had already submitted a simple case with this problem using gradient material and bump decal and NO multipass. The report shows as currently assigned - so I assume that means it's being looked at...(thanks mucho, Steffan)

[MJL]

Submit a sample PRJ that shows the problem to AMReports. Bump maps are a fundamental that ought to work in regular renders.

 

It's a good idea to submit another report (with simple case, different material) - I had already submitted a simple case with this problem using gradient material and bump decal and NO multipass. The report shows as currently assigned - so I assume that means it's being looked at...(thanks mucho, Steffan)

 

Robert, Nancy, I'll try to do that in the next day or so. Never filed a report before. I'll have to play around with a different material.

 

Eric, The vase is for one of the images I'm making for my website upgrade. I'll post the model in my Art Nouveau thread. Feel free to use it if you like.

 

Thanks, Steve, it is a Darktree Simbiont material, I downloaded their free porfolio and their AM plugin some time ago. It is in their metals folder. Rustysteel.

 

For anyone who doesn't know yet how to use them. You make a new material, right click on the attribute, select change type to Darktree/simbiont. then open up the new attribute and select load darktree to load the material.

[NancyGormezano]

I didn't mean to submit report with a different material than you already have - I meant that it MIGHT be good for Steffan to have different examples of where materials don't work with bumps. He may or may not need this info.

 

We now have 2 examples that don't work - 1 using a gradient material, and another using a simbiont material, that do not work with bump decals and rendering NO multipass.

 

I had noted that there was NO problem - if I made a simple material - where I only set the surface color - and then decaled the surface with a bump - that would work if rendered with NO multipass.

[MJL]

Same issue here as you had. I'll use the model I just posted in the other thread.

[MJL]

Still studying bump maps.

 

I put a bump map and color decal on the model and matched them up using translate and scale in the PWS (1). I repeated that with a second stamp each in another place (2) on the model changing the scale and translate adjustments in the PWS.

 

Now I want to go back and replace the bump maps with one that has had the colors inverted.

 

I can do that easily on the second one because the translate and scale numbers are still the same.

 

My question is: Is there any way to get the scale and translation numbers of the first (1) decal back in the PWS?

 

The numbers in the screenshot are from decal number two.

[robcat2075]

expand the + sign next to the start icon, to show the Images container.

 

You can drop multiple images in there and (presuming they have the same dimensions) the will be aligned exactly. You can drop your new version of the bump map in there and then delete the first. This is the typical way of aligning related maps like color...bump... tranparency... reflection... that are all based on the same thing. Set the "type" for each one after you drop it.

 

If it's just a matter of reversing the black/white of a bump map you can set the percentage to - number.

[MJL]

Thanks, Rob,

 

I figured there was a way. It's just that my ignorance is sooooo vast.

 

Your'e talking about expanding the images folder, right?

 

If it's just a matter of reversing the black/white of a bump map you can set the percentage to - number.

 

Very Cool, saves me a bunch of trouble

[robcat2075]

expand the + sign next to the start star icon, to show the Images container.

 

 

oops

[Darkwing]

that's what i always liked about this place, just how you guys can go at it and not only solve a problem, come up with multiple solutions, a new way of doing something, or a completely brand new effect/technique no one's done yet with AM. Always very informative. And another corel user, nice, though I'd switch to photoshop if I had the money (i'd keep corel draw though, best vector program ever)

 

And I really like the look you got happening here, though where you're using a symbiot mat, have you tried baking it or whatever and apply it as a decal or whatever that technique is, one it'd probably help with the bump issue and two, you'll shave about two or more minutes off your render

[MJL]

Ahhh, Rob, now that makes more sense to me. I'll remember that for future use. the negative number helped me a ton, after trying that, I ended up going back to what I had originaly.

 

Darkwing, that's good advice, but I have to concentrate on one thing at a time, or I get lost or distracted. You're right about the render times this one took 45 minutes for the one frame. But I didn't mind because I was just going for the look.

 

this is another version of the vase, I think maybe I'll play with trees and put a cascade Bonsai Pine tree in it.

 

I do feel like I'm getting a much better handle on the Bump Map thing. Robcat's advice helped a lot.

 

Edit: I just realized that I had the material bump percentage at 0. I'll make another posting when the render is done.

[robcat2075]

I always have a hard time telling whether bump maps are innies or outies.

 

Someone posted a process for converting a bump map to a normal map. Those shade slightly differently and maybe slightly more realistically in some situations.

 

I'd also be curious to see how the bump map looks set to "displacement".

[MJL]

Robcat, I'll try to find time tomorrow to play with displacement and normal maps and post the results.

 

Here it is with the bump percentage turned on in the material. With the bump map on the design I was trying to make it look like there was a raised design that has partially rusted away.

 

I thought there had to be a fairly high mesh to use displacement maps?

 

The bump map percentage is pretty slight.(75%) I tried it higher but ended up going back to that percentage for the look I was after.

[robcat2075]

I thought there had to be a fairly high mesh to use displacement maps?

 

Not anymore. New displacement since v13.

[Darkwing]

your normals are facing the right way aren't they?

[MJL]

Thanks for bringing that up, Darkwing, I checked and they were ALL reversed. I flipped them, but it didn't seem to make any difference in the image. I'm such a newb!

[Darkwing]

odd, normally flipping the normals fixes bump map issues, do you have a prj or mdl on here already?