Fuchur Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I am working on a semi- (to high) realistic (we will see how well she will turn out ) model of a girl. She was modeled from scratch and isn't textured yet (apart from the eyes). She needs some more poses for talking- and emotional stuff, but till now I am quite pleased with her. Before I will go on texturing her, I thought I may adress the porceilan-problem I run into. I tried using the porceilan-material, but I got a problem with hooks there. Anyone knows what I am doing wrong there? The final-rendering is without(!) porceilan which looks okay too, but I would like to use the material to make it even more smooth. Any thoughts? Thanks for your comments... See you *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve392 Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I allways have that problem ,I adjust the bias hanles a bit and it seems to work ok ps nice looking model Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkaos Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I run into a similar problem all the time when using porcelain material. A lot of times it's an issue with the normal direction. Also, as steve said, sometimes you just need to select the hook spline and it will snap to what it's supposed to look like. Great modeling B-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatso Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 When this problem shows up with porcelain, it most often means there are flipped normals. I routinely apply porcelain as a test, even when I don't plan to use it, cuz it shows flipped normals so clearly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 14, 2009 Author Share Posted April 14, 2009 When this problem shows up with porcelain, it most often means there are flipped normals. I routinely apply porcelain as a test, even when I don't plan to use it, cuz it shows flipped normals so clearly. Yes I thought of that... but as you can see in the above image (the one with the shaded-wireframe where I show the normals) it doesnt seem as the normals are flipped... the other site (where I rendered with the progressive-renderer) looks exactly the same and if I render the hook I circled it gives the exact same result -> black artefacts. And it appears on all the hooks but not the 5pointers. I once heard that Martin gave out another porcelan-material which had some 5-point-/hook-issues fixed so I wonder if I use the wrong one? *Fuchur* PS: The interesting thing about it: It looks like the creasings there are only appearing from certain camera-perspectives. Other points of views doesnt show these problems. PPSS: Thanks for the nice comments about the modeling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 the other site (where I rendered with the progressive-renderer) looks exactly the same and if I render the hook I circled it gives the exact same result -> black artefacts. And it appears on all the hooks but not the 5pointers. I believe that there is a difference with porcelain in the way it looks with a final render - compared to an on-screen render. Have you tried a final render? and does it still have the artifacts? I believe I have found that porcelain looks better in final, but always produces very icky artifacts with on-screen renders. And definitely scary artifacts with on screen progressive renders on surfaces that have decals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted April 14, 2009 Share Posted April 14, 2009 I was about to make a similar comment about final, multi-pass render vs. a quick screen render. Lots of times the artifacts go away in a full render. EDIT: Can you run those splines up the neck and have the hooks under the jawline? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genocell Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I experience similar problem as well when I did a contest entry. I remember spending weeks trying to solve the problem but no joy. In the end I ended 'airbrushing' it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I thought I had heard somewhere that porceline was obsolete in V15... I quit using it, causes more bad than good, seems. What are you plans for the skin other than porceline? You could try assigning a 'flesh' patch decal...you could try SSS... or- I always got good results by taking the 'fur' material off the 'KeeKat' model and giving it flesh colors, you get a nice automatic 'rim-light' that way---or even better, the 'plush' from symbiont Darksim/Darktree. I like your model...she'll need clothes eventually! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 I thought I had heard somewhere that porceline was obsolete in V15... I quit using it, causes more bad than good, seems. What are you plans for the skin other than porceline? You could try assigning a 'flesh' patch decal...you could try SSS... or- I always got good results by taking the 'fur' material off the 'KeeKat' model and giving it flesh colors, you get a nice automatic 'rim-light' that way---or even better, the 'plush' from symbiont Darksim/Darktree. I like your model...she'll need clothes eventually! Hm... the porceline-material has an effect. It is still smoother. So I thought it cant be obsolete.. Just for hooks it has a bad influence for me. Looks like it doesnt seem to recognize the transition of the hook to the "real" patch and thinks there is a normal-direction-change. Somehow I remember a porceline-material which had an percentage-value to determine the strength of the smoothness. Have to search for it. Anyway if I doesnt find it: I plan to give her fist a full unwrapping so I can give here a nice texture-combination. I will use 3dpainter for textuering her. After that I will have a look on her clothing. I am planing to use simcloth for the looser parts and cloth included in the rig for the tighter once. And if that worked out, I have a look at her haircut. I will use the Hair-particle-system of A:M. Dont know yet if it works out, Maybe I will have to use hair-tails (Shift-Key-Hair) for it and if that doesnt work out neighter I will go the helmet-hair-root. For some shots I may although play around with SubSurfaceScattering, but till now I couldnt get it to work in a good way for me. I got it working but when the effect was visible and nice it highly depended on the background-color because the light got in the object that much, that it came out on the other site (or whatever ). But lets see it as it is: These are plans... I dont know exactly if I will find the time to do all of this stuff. *Fuchur* PS: What do you mean with "Flesh-Patch"? A patchimage for the skin or is this something different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 PS: What do you mean with "Flesh-Patch"? A patchimage for the skin or is this something different? Import these images into A:M...drag-n-drop the 'color' one onto your 'flesh' or 'skin' group in the PWS. THAT is a 'patch-image'. It applies itself like a decal fully to every single patch! Now, right-click on the 'images' under the group's new patch-image and select 'new image'... and add the bump image and set it to bump instead of color. Adjust the bump amount while zoomed in and test rendering a section. These images are directional tiles, meaning they can tile together in any direction so you wont need to go about 'rotating' any patch images. Hope you find this useful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 PS: What do you mean with "Flesh-Patch"? A patchimage for the skin or is this something different? Import these images into A:M...drag-n-drop the 'color' one onto your 'flesh' or 'skin' group in the PWS. THAT is a 'patch-image'. It applies itself like a decal fully to every single patch! Now, right-click on the 'images' under the group's new patch-image and select 'new image'... and add the bump image and set it to bump instead of color. Adjust the bump amount while zoomed in and test rendering a section. These images are directional tiles, meaning they can tile together in any direction so you wont need to go about 'rotating' any patch images. Hope you find this useful! A patchimage wont work very well. My patches are not very even sized. That will create distorted images / textures and the repeative nature of patchimages is not easy to overcome there too. I may work with a material or if I overcome the repeative-problem with a bitmapplus or directly with a large-scale decal. Dont know yet. I unwrapped my model, but there is still some distortion that needs to be addressed. *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Somehow I remember a porceline-material which had an percentage-value to determine the strength of the smoothness. Have to search for it. You have probably found it by now ...but for others - it's material/Procelain/attribute/Normal Weight I believe default is 100% for normal weight I actually don't know where the original material is from - I was looking at the porcelain material found in the database on the svn for Scarecrow of Oz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi Nancy, could you send me that one / give a link to the material? I think that is the one I am searching for... mine is a quite old one from the last CD-version I have before Websubscription. I think it is the one I am searching for but I dont have TWO / SO access. Thanks in advance! *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hey, that "patch-image" method sounds very cool, John. I'm saving the images and your post into a folder in my "A:M Tutes 'n' Tricks" folder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hey, that "patch-image" method sounds very cool, John. I'm saving the images and your post into a folder in my "A:M Tutes 'n' Tricks" folder! Can be helpful as a base-texture, but I dont recommend it for final stuff. *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Bigboote Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 I'm tellin ya... works for me! All Fuchur would need to do is add another ring around the arms and legs... it's especially cool when you combine it with the 'Symbiont-plush' trick I mentioned above earlier. You can lead a horse to water... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyGormezano Posted April 15, 2009 Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi Nancy, could you send me that one / give a link to the material? I think that is the one I am searching for... mine is a quite old one from the last CD-version I have before Websubscription. I really don't think there has been a change in porcelain material - but here it is anyway Porcelain.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuchur Posted April 15, 2009 Author Share Posted April 15, 2009 Hi Nancy, could you send me that one / give a link to the material? I think that is the one I am searching for... mine is a quite old one from the last CD-version I have before Websubscription. I really don't think there has been a change in porcelain material - but here it is anyway Thank you Nancy... yes you are right, it seems to be the same but one difference: Yours had 100% as normal weight and mine had default. (I think default is 0%). However I reduced the normal weight a bit and at 85% it isnt visible but it is a little bit smoother (most smoothness will be archieved by 0%). So it helped a bit... See you and thanks again *Fuchur* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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