One or more choreography's

[bighop]

Hi all,

 

I have a question related to setting up a project. I'm building a set that will be used for three or more animations in different parts of the set.(different camera set ups) What I want to know is would I be better off to copy this choreography several times and set up my cameras for the different animations or just keep building off one timeline?

 

I was debating because copying the three choreography's would add to the project size, but so would adding to one time line. I was also thinking that if I used 3 sets, I could eliminate (or hide) different parts of the set that were not visible to help decrease the render time.

 

Just wondering what the "Pros" would do.

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[heyvern]

Trying to get my head around your set up. Let me know if I've got this correct.

 

You have one set, for example a table and two chairs in a room. That set would be used for multiple scenes possibly with different characters and camera angles. The two options you suggest would be:

 

1) Use one long choreography time line and hide and show the characters or objects for each scene and use multiple cameras to change angles.

2) Duplicate that chor for each scene.

 

If this is correct.. I think you are much better off duplicating the chor for each scene. It would be difficult to name the renders and keep track of different scenes if they are all in one chor. By duplicating the chor and renaming it you can keep track of which one is which. However, if you are going to have multiple camera angles for one "scene", for example a conversation between two characters changing camera angles or with multiple camera angles cutting back and forth, then you could do that in ONE chor using multiple cameras.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

-vern

[Caroline]

Doesn't TWO set it up as an action, so if it changes, it changes in all the chors?

[bighop]

Thanks Vern, that was the direction I was thinking it should go too. I don't know if changing an action in one will in another.

[martin]

SO puts all scenes from the same set into one Chor then switches the Camera's position with constraints. Use "active" to turn unneeded models on and off, and use a lightrig with a Lightlist constrained to the Camera to make sure the characters are always lit, (you can also use "active" to get rid of lights you don't want).

 

TWO had a separate scene for every Camera position... 1005! We couldn't just change something in the set (or in the lights) without doing the same thing is a dozen Chors, plus we couldn't keep the lighting consistent, nor maintain continuity - it was a nightmare.

[bighop]

Martin: Thanks for the input. I get what you're saying, but does your time line become really huge? That was another concern.

 

Also, I've been reading about after effects. Does this program help in making the final product? ( I know I just started another topic)

 

Thanks for the advice, I feel I have a better handle on this.

[KenH]

The main question is how long is your project going to be? The longer it is, the more actions there are going to be which makes navigating the PWS a pain. General computer efficiency is going to suffer if you have bigger chors too.....probably not alot. If you have say, a 20 min chor, then when you're working toward the end, there's a whole 20 min worth of keyframes sitting in memory.

 

If it's just a 3 minute thing, then you could probably do it all in one chor.

 

If it's more then yes, I'd divide it up.

 

Also, there's the morale quesion to consider. It's alot less daunting to tackle three small chors than a single long one. With each chor comes the satisfaction of finishing something.

[martin]

Also, I've been reading about after effects. Does this program help in making the final product? ( I know I just started another topic)

There's no reason in the world to use After Effects. Plus, if you spend $1500 on AE then complain to me about A:M being "incompatible," I REALLY blow a fuse. Use the compositing features in A:M, they were written before AE even existed, and were better than AE for many years. And for short pieces, use the NLE built-in to A:M. A:M is your all-in-one solution - that's our market niche - help us stay in business by showing the world that any 7th grader can make their own little movie all in A:M.

[bighop]

Well that's good to know that I can do what I need to in AM. I'll post this project as soon as I get it done.

 

Thanks

[Fuchur]

Well that's good to know that I can do what I need to in AM. I'll post this project as soon as I get it done.

 

Thanks

 

AE isnt bad, it is just not needed for many 3d-animations. A:Ms built-in-tools are made for that and especially the composite-feature will do most things you can do in AE. The biggest advantage is, that 2d-effects which are blended with a 3d-rendering (lets say a lightening, a fire, etc.) are faster to render in 2d-space than in 3d-space... AE is meant for 2d-animations and has some features included which are nice there too... it is a little bit like comparing photoshop with a video-camera. It is not meant for the same thing.

 

So: Use A:M whereever you can (it will do 99,8% of everything you ever need connected to 3d-animations). You have to ask yourself if 0,02% are worse 1.500 Dollars... I would say: No, it isnt worth it. If you are after 2d-animations or text-animations and some videoeffects, it may be worth it so.

 

See you

*Fuchur*

[bighop]

Well now I feel silly. I made a simple choreography and saved it. I then did a "save as" and imported the first choreography. The two are independent. I've changed the camera and animations and they stay separate. (I didn't use any actions, just in choreography animation. So I guess if I do a "save as" for the actions I would get the same results.

 

Thanks for all the input.

[John Bigboote]

Seems like you want to 'nest' compositions... (put one inside the 'nuther)

 

This is a common practice and extremely useful in (dare I say) AE...

 

I'm away from A:M at the moment, but it seems you would want to setup your 1st chor (lets say, the table and chairs) and delete the camera and lights and save the choreography. Now in the 2nd comp (or even a different project) make a new chor and IMPORT the 1st chor. Here, you can make characters interact with the table and chairs...and the new lights and camera will be utilized. CONVERSELY, the lights and cam from chor 1 could be saved with the chor...and the new ones deleted.

 

At least that's the way I 'think' I have done it before...

[HomeSlice]

An alternative is to construct your set in an Action window, instead of in a chor. It is a little more work to do all that in an Action, but the upside is that if you need to change something in the set, you can change it once on the action and all the sets in all your chors are updated automatically.

 

Also, I've found that is is good to do your lighting in a separate action as well.

 

The way you would do that is:

Make a base model for the set, whether it is a bare room or a barren landscape.

Create an Action for the base model and drag all the extra stuff, furniture, trees etc. into the Action as Action Objects.

This action will have keyframes only on frame 0. It is essentially a 1 frame action

Drag the base model into a Chor and drag the "set assembly" action onto the base model shortcut in the chor.

Important! - Make sure the "chor range" for the action shortcut (in the chor) starts on frame 0 and has "Hold Last Frame" set to ON.

 

A lighting action is made the same way.

Create a new action with the base model.

Drag lights into the Action as Action Objects.

Then drag the lighting action onto the base model shortcut in the chor.

 

If you need to alter some items in an action ONLY for one particular chor, I think you can click on the "show more than drivers" button for the base model shortcut in the chor and all the action objects will show up in the "bones" folder under the base model shortcut. You can move an Action Item around in the chor by selecting the bone that controls it. I'm not 100% sure about this, but I think this will only affect the current chor. It will not change the original Action, so your other chors will be unaffected.

[bighop]

That's a good idea, I'm going to give that a try.