Basics: Posing

[jamagica]

So...I'm doing this basics..posing. Over the course of the next week or so I'll simply be posing scenarios with a simple generic character and I need your input on them..The first one is "victory"

 

I can already see that I need more spine curve exaggeration and the raised arm needs to be extremed some more..what else?

[phatso]

Looks like he's shaking his fist at somebody. Try turning his head to his right so he's not looking at the fist. Maybe tilt the torso to the right to emphasize the upward thrust of the arm.

 

Push the hips out so there's a smooth convex curve.

[Rodney]

First, let me say... I like the premise of this WIP. Please stay with it as long as you possibly can.

 

I have to agree here with phatso when he says:

Looks like he's shaking his fist at somebody.

 

It looks very much to me like he is having an angry discussion with God.

 

For the pose to say 'victory' I think you need to layer in another action.

What kind of victory is he celebrating?

Has he just finished running/winning a race?

Maybe he's expecting good news and found out he just got a job?

 

What about that other arm? Could it be put to better use?

 

If he was saying something what words would be in his dialogue?

 

 

This is pretty cool stuff if'n you ask me. Glad you are willing to post it.

[jamagica]

I know what I'll do..I need to raise up the arm more to straighten it out...right now it feels like the forearm is leading the action which gives the shaking impression..

 

tomorrow I will post an update up (for sure)

 

I dont' know why I always end up leaving my projects in the dust...I DO NOT want that to happen with this one

[jamagica]

For the pose to say 'victory' I think you need to layer in another action.

What kind of victory is he celebrating?

Has he just finished running/winning a race?

Maybe he's expecting good news and found out he just got a job?

 

You've got me thinking here as well. The thing I've been thinking about this pose is an exhausted athlete who has just become champion. He/she doesn't have the energy to jump for joy, but the person is so proud of him/herself.

[Rodney]

Your descripton immediately made me think of the late great Will Eisner and one of his graphic novels.

The main character runs a marathon and is the last to cross the finish line.

The story is a wonderful one created by the master of sequential art. (See attached)

The poses there are complex though and certainly not meant to stand on their own as static images.

They are designed as elements of a graphic 'moving' narrative.

 

Something of use to everyone in refining poses might be a search on key words at Google Photos.

Here for instance is a variety of 'victory poses':

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrows...ictory+pose#0+1

 

I don't see too many exhausted ones there though.

 

Will Eisner's character though... he's enhausted!

The page is from the excellent book 'Graphic Storytelling and Visual Narrative'. Highly recommended.

[jamagica]

that novel seems very interesting...I'm checking out some photos right now of "victory poses" and I think they will be of very much help

[Fishman]

Two ideas. I agree with Rodney that maybe the second arm needs to be doing more. I see two arms raised and think victory. I see one arm raised with a fist and I see defiance.

 

Another way to approach this WIP would be to post your pose and get people to read it for you. Then you can see if the message is transmitted by the pose. If you tell us what you're after, then it will be our interpretation of that concept, not yours. If you can get your poses to transmit the thought without telling us then you've succeeded.

 

I like that you also post the silhouette. Always a good way to test a pose.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Scott

[jamagica]

Alright so I took another quick look at it and changed up some of the arm/neck/head positions. I tried moving the hips forward for more of a "convex" curve but the pose ended up looking very awkward and unbalanced. I also tried raising both of the hands but it looked assymetrical and unnatural.

 

When I pose "victory" myself I naturally raise one fist and lean to the other side. Here's an update

[Rodney]

There is still a lot of tension in the pose that (as others have noted) reads as something other than victory.

Perhaps if he's standing on a defeated foe your pose would be golden.

Is that something that could be motivating the pose?

 

For what its worth I think the tension may work against the average 'victory' pose.

I'd try to soften up the angles a little shift the weight a little more... Relax and stretch the pose.

Lowever the head to at least eye level (who is he looking at?) might be worth experimenting with too.

 

As I say though... if you are trying to strike a Frazetta/barbarian/hero victory pose you might just have it.

If he had a sword in the other arm it might even be a little further weighted down.

 

I know it may sound a little ridiculous but what the character is doing really drives the pose.

As we don't have that piece of the puzzle its a little hard to know.

[jamagica]

As I say though... if you are trying to strike a Frazetta/barbarian/hero victory pose you might just have it.

If he had a sword in the other arm it might even be a little further weighted down.

 

This is the look I'm going for, which may be why it's difficult for me understand what to change. However...I will try to soften it up and create the "other type of victory"

 

see you guys in a few...

[Rodney]

This is the look I'm going for, which may be why it's difficult for me understand what to change.

 

Ah... that makes a lot more sense then. I'll have to investigate 'warrior pose'.

Those guys are always screaming at their gods.

 

Edit: A few images (not particularly inspiring) on 'warrior pose':

http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/searchbrows...rior%20pose#0+1

[jamagica]

alright so I softened it up a bit and it does seem much looser now. I guess when I titled it "victory" I pictured the team of warriors that wins on the battlefield. When I think of "win" or "winner" I think of the more neutral, natural looking pose.

 

Hopefully this is more like a "winner":

[Fishman]

The more I look at this, the more I think that it is the back of the up raised hand that is driving my impression. It looks like the classic shaking your fist at God. I wonder if it would read better with the wrist turned 90 degrees?

 

Just a thought.

 

Scott

[Rodney]

I still suggest a pose more like this:

Squint your eyes a bit as I didn't make your underlying figure transparent enough.

Shoot that hip way up... like he's trying to take off flying.

 

Scott has great point concerning the fist.

 

 

[jamagica]

alright...I shifted the wrist angling a bit and it makes this look a WHOLE LOT BETTER (thanks for that suggestion, Scott)

 

I also raised the hips, and lowered the head a tiny bit more like you suggested, Rodney. I'm quite pleased with the improvements I've made

[Rodney]

He does look a lot more relaxed.

 

I'll stare at this one a bit more and see what there is to see. I'll try to thumbnail a few poses too as thats a great way to test out things.

 

If you are still willing to work this pose a little more I'd like to see what you might do with that other arm.

I'm not sure if it'll go well with your current pose but see how it arcs the other way in my overlay?

 

The legs... they seem to be standing straight on. I think the staggering you had before was better.

If you can pull one back he'll look like he has more balance/assymetry.

[jamagica]

hmm...I'll try that arm idea when I get the chance..I can't think of anything else I could possibly do with it.

[jamagica]

The legs... they seem to be standing straight on. I think the staggering you had before was better.

If you can pull one back he'll look like he has more balance/assymetry.

 

This is why I had the hips lower...the legs looked staggered because the legs were bent at the knees, so the direction of the legs could be defined easily. After raising the hips, this illusion is ruined. I personally think it might look better with the hips down a bit more, then I have more flexibility with the legs..update in a few minutes

 

EDIT: I have the new update up..I think I'm done working on this one..I've got many ideas for more poses

 

EDIT2: now that I look at this I think I need to raise the head more again...hmm...

[Rodney]

You've worked this one pretty good.

Its definitely reading more of a 'victory' than your first image.

You can call that pose a success.

[jamagica]

Thanks Rod! Anybody else got thoughts on this last update before I move on?

[phatso]

Now the pose reads like it's supposed to. Veddy good, suh.

[jamagica]

Ok..started a new one..not turning out liek I want it to..

 

what do you guys think it is?

[Rodney]

Hmmm... my first impression...

 

He's catching a ball (a little unexpectedly) so he's anticipating right as it hits him in the stomache.

 

Am I close?

[jamagica]

argh...this is tough..

 

think "emotion"

[Rodney]

Well... my second guess was going to be a shrug as when someone says... "Ooops... Sorry."

This new image certainly suggests that.

 

So... the emotion.... "Timid"?

[jamagica]

very, very, close...It's more of an "I didn't do it" or in one word you could title it "innocence".

 

I wanted to pose it as if someone is pointing their finger at him/her and he's saying that he did NOT do anything wrong.

 

I'm not satisfied with this yet...it's not expressive enough (at least I don't think it is)..what do you guys think?

[jamagica]

now that I look at this again, I think I need to bring the arms up more..to achieve my goal, I think I have to make him as "compressed"/compact as possible, which will say "Hey, I'm not the center of the action here"

[Rodney]

I'd say you are pretty close there with the second take on 'innocence'.

You may want to experiment with turning the character to the side just a little bit.

Then the pose might read even better. You could alway try the silhouette thing again.

[jamagica]

genious idea...I turned it a bit and it looks a bit better...I think I may try to "asymmy" up the arms a bit...

 

I also have a question...is a good pose readable in any view, or is one suitable view ok for a good pose?

[Rodney]

I also have a question...is a good pose readable in any view, or is one suitable view ok for a good pose?

 

The camera view is the important view in most instances. The camera can also said to be the view of the audience so its their/your Point of View (POV).

 

If you were creating a realtime 3D game you'd likely have to spend more time getting poses to look as good as possible from every view.

 

What you are striving for of course is clarity.

Its been said that if you can't tell what is happening with a stick figure drawing of the pose... you most likely need to make changes so the pose will read better. So... when in doubt... consider drawing little stick figure thumbnails.

[jamagica]

I see...well..for now, I'm simply trying to get used to composing basic emotion through poses that are shown from one view..when I begin to animate I think I''ll come back to this subject once again and work on "360 poses"

[jamagica]

Here's another...an Ok start..

 

probably easier to guess but here it is:

[nimblepix]

Well, since my baby left me,

I found a new place to dwell.

Its down at the end of lonely street

At heartbreak hotel.

 

You make me so lonely baby,

I get so lonely,

I get so lonely I could die.

[robcat2075]

Here's another...an Ok start..

 

probably easier to guess but here it is:

 

that's one that would benefit from a non-frontal angle.

[Caroline]

Frontal like this is how you get to see tennis players in the 5th set 3 games down.

[jamagica]

Well, since my baby left me,

I found a new place to dwell.

Its down at the end of lonely street

At heartbreak hotel.

 

You make me so lonely baby,

I get so lonely,

I get so lonely I could die.

 

THAT'S IT!!!

 

haha...perhaps if I do some cheesy narrative animation with this guy I'll use that...

 

Robcat..here's a semi-side/side view:

 

EDIT: You'll notice I changed the hand pose a bit...I wanted a more unique approach so I added a "tear wipe" action to the left arm

[jamagica]

Frontal like this is how you get to see tennis players in the 5th set 3 games down.

 

Holy crap that's hilarious...good thing I changed that pose

[robcat2075]

That's a pretty good "sad"

[jamagica]

Thanks Robcat!

[phatso]

So you've got two useable poses for three situations: the latter is sad, the former is equally good for "God, I'm exhausted" and "Oh shit, things are really screwed up." You'll have a library soon.

 

And you'll publish, all rigged, right?

[jamagica]

And you'll publish, all rigged, right?

 

If you're asking if I'll post up the files..I could do that! I'll upload them in awhile.

 

I'll also give you guys the seperate model file I"m using...I'd like to see what you guys think of the rig/flexibility of it

[phatso]

For the animating I do, simplicity, not detail, is the important thing. If you've got a simplified rig that works, I'm yours.

[jamagica]

soon I'll just post up the file and you can check it out..there are many levels of simple. However, when I first model and rigged this I did a very basic FK-arms, IK legs setup. Although there is not FK/IK switch, the rig is nice because you can't encounter many problems with animating with something so simple. (I'm probably biased though )

[3DArtZ]

Hmm, I think it looks like he's raising his hand in victory, but at the same time he's got to go take a #2, if you know

what I mean:)

 

In a victory pose like that, He probably would be raising his fist high in the sky, and his body language should all

be on the same page.

His legs straight, no bend at the knees. His hips directly on top of his stance and torso stretching upwards.

 

what do you think?

[jamagica]

Hmm, I think it looks like he's raising his hand in victory, but at the same time he's got to go take a #2, if you know

what I mean:)

 

In a victory pose like that, He probably would be raising his fist high in the sky, and his body language should all

be on the same page.

His legs straight, no bend at the knees. His hips directly on top of his stance and torso stretching upwards.

 

what do you think?

 

well..I haven't been at this for awhile with school getting bad but...in basic, I want to keep the slight bend at the knees or else it would look very stiff. (I think..I'll try it out though). And with the hips, I don't know if you looked at the last update I made with victory but I'd say that I have the hips pretty well "on top", as well as the torso stretch (perhaps I could exaggerate the upward part more though).