Displacement and Toon Render

[3DArtZ]

Hey guys,

following my tests with displacment for folds in clothing, I discovered that no matter

how I altered my settings I can not avoid getting these little black dots where the displament

map is on the model.

I am thinking that the dots are pixels that are brighter then the surrounding pixels in the

gradient of the blur that I used on the map and the toon renderer is pickign it up as an edge.

is that possible? or is it a compression thing?

I've tried both png(profile stripped after ps save) and tga files.

any help or suggestions would be appreciated

here is an image sowing the problem.

 

[Luuk Steitner]

This image is reduced in size. Are the black dots on the original render perfect squares or are they smooth? If they are squares it's a render error. I have had such problems in v14 some time ago and I was hoping it was solved by now.

It might be something else tough.

[3DArtZ]

Hey Luuk,

the dots appear to be actual toon lines, if I turn off lines the dots go away.

as far as them being perfect squares or circles, I can not tell, they are just dots.

[Darkwing]

Being about the toonrender, this brings a question I've had, I have a project of a train. I have a smoke particle sprite for the exhaust, but for it to be higher than the train, I have a transparent cylinder emitting the sprites, but when toon rendered, there is an outline around the object, any ideas? As for the dots, I think it's subtle displacements in the modle that disappear in normal render, but in toon, it puts lines there cause it senses a difference in the model

[Luuk Steitner]

If those areas are considered to be edges maybe a higher resolution displacement map would help, or maybe lower.... Maybe it's worth a try.

[robcat2075]

Are the dots lined up with a spline?

[3DArtZ]

If those areas are considered to be edges maybe a higher resolution displacement map would help, or maybe lower.... Maybe it's worth a try.

 

Hi Luuk, Ive had the same thought process on that. I've tried up to 300 dpi and down to 30 dpi and they were pretty much the same.

also kept it at 72 dpi and make the image h x w up to triple in size.

I'm about to give up!!!!!

 

Are the dots lined up with a spline?

 

Um, I don't know if they are exactly on a spline or not. how could I tell? I have had all sorts of results with dots all over the

place and just a few dots, but there are always dots!

[Luuk Steitner]

I think I have a solution for you, don't give up yet.

Make the parts where the dots are showing a separate group and give it it's own toon settings. Setting the toon lines thickness to '0' for example.

[3DArtZ]

Luuk, you are right in that is removes the dots, as any dot shows up with the color of the surface, making them appear to be not there, but I lose the outline around the body on the group part.

 

Let me know if you find anything different.

 

thanks!

 

Mike

[3DArtZ]

Okay,

here is a the problem in motion.

on the map, white being the hiegest point, and 50 percent black being skin level,

the dots showup in the blur between the 2 colors.

the gradient. anyone have any thoughts how to uniformily smooth this out, as I think

that pixels of brighter color in the way photoshop makes the transition in color is to blame??

 

about 900kb

http://www.3dartz.com/vids/kickit12a.mov

[robcat2075]

If you rendered that movie a 2x the res would the dots be the same relative size or the same absolute size (the same number of pixels across)?

[3DArtZ]

If you rendered that movie a 2x the res would the dots be the same relative size or the same absolute size (the same number of pixels across)?

Hi Robert,

don't know the ans. to that. I will give a try and let you know.

[3DArtZ]

Hey Robert,

I just did a larger render and the dots still show up.

I guess that the toon render picks up the brighter or darker pixels that are

in the gradient of the map.

Not sure what else to try....

[3DArtZ]

here is a larger quicktime movie

 

about 900kb

 

http://www.3dartz.com/vids/hdkicker2.mov

[HomeSlice]

The only thing I can think of is to find a frame that always shows the dots, note the displacement percentage of the map on that frame, bring the model into a new non-animated chor, set the displacement percentage (in the chor), export the chor as a ply model, import the ply model back into AM and see if the mesh in the imported ply model is doing anything strange. I would guess if the mesh is distorted, then maybe the problem is in the map, but if the mesh looks fine, maybe it is a rendering issue? Just guessing....

[3DArtZ]

Homeslice, you lost me for moment!

I think its the map and by that I mean, either I'm screwing something up

or the gradient tool just isnt able to make a smoothenough transition in that

random pixels that are brighter or darker then the majority of the surrounding pixels

are getting caught in the toon render as an edge.

 

Is 32 bit the max in photoshop/gimp now a days?(ive tried both)

[3DArtZ]

Okay,

I'm really about to toss my hands up in the air.

I guess I can always use a bump map.

here is a quick a render I did with one.

Its not bad, but I'd really like to use the displacement map:(

 

http://www.3dartz.com/vids/hdkickerASD1.mov

[mtpeak2]

To tell you the truth, I think I like bump map better. That is what you used in the last render, right?

[3DArtZ]

hey mark, yeah, I used a bump map in the last render I posted.

It think it looks ok, and possibly it would be find during animation unless someone stopped

the animation and examined the edges and such.

[HomeSlice]

Homeslice, you lost me for moment!

I think its the map and by that I mean, either I'm screwing something up

or the gradient tool just isnt able to make a smooth enough transition

 

Sorry about that. Several years ago I discovered that when I exported a model with a displacement map as a ply model, the displacement would get "baked" into the mesh geometry. I used to apply displacement maps, export as ply, import the ply back into AM and save the imported ply as a mdl file. It worked great but that was a long time ago. I don't know if that would work now. In fact, it probably doesn't work that way anymore.

[Ganthofer]

Exporting a model with displacement map as any of the export formats bakes the displament into the geometry in v15 alpha. Didn't try the older versions. Of course the results will vary, depending on how well your mesh exports and imports.

 

Glenn