Keyframe issue again

[Steven547]

Ok.. still confused on this keyframe issue. All I want (for starts) is to move the left arm, then then the right arm. However, my character moves the right arm and the left begins to follow. Can someone please clarify this to me in a "book for dummies" mode please? I'm seriously lost again...I thought I had it, but lost it again.

 

I've attached a screen shot of my work. Maybe that would help? Right where the vertical line is, his left arm begins to move.

 

Thanks.

[itsjustme]

I think I've got the solution for you, Steve. If you change your view of the timeline to the splines view (hit the button on the far left in the timeline window at the bottom...the multicolored squiqqles are on it), you will see that the spline has an arc on it that causes the arm to move before you want it to.

 

Victor Navone made a couple of tutorials that you would probably benefit from here and here.

 

Hope that helps.

[Steven547]

Thanks. I"ll have to look into this more when I get home. Just hoping I figure this out!

[phatso]

I second that: I've watched Victor's spline tutes several times and I'm going to be watching them again.

 

But maybe a quickie answer will be useful. Everybody has problems with this at first. Maybe you know the following, in which case I hope you're not insulted, but if you don't need these hints there are other new users who will find them useful.

 

1. The most common mistake is to go into the animation a ways, move the model, and set a keyframe - forgetting to set a start keyframe, or intermediate keyframes if you want the model to be stationary until some point. If you don't want action to start until a certain point, you have to manually establish stillness at that point. Otherwise the computer will make "inbetweens" starting from a point where you don't want them to start.

 

2. Splines, unlike point-to-point lines, have anticipation that causes "floating." You can counter this by peaking the points where motion changes. Better is to right-click and select the "zero slope" option so you get smoother transitions. For really critical motion control, fiddle with the bias handles.

 

Hope that is of value to somebody. But even if it solves the problem, study Victor's tutes.

[Steven547]

For some reason, the Keyframes issue is my biggest nemesis. So, no insult taken...heck, if you have to, teach my like I was 2 yrs old if it will help me! It's a very frustrating thing. I keep trying what everyone is saying, but no luck at all. I'll have to make a quick movie and post it or something so you can see it.

[itsjustme]

For some reason, the Keyframes issue is my biggest nemesis. So, no insult taken...heck, if you have to, teach my like I was 2 yrs old if it will help me! It's a very frustrating thing. I keep trying what everyone is saying, but no luck at all. I'll have to make a quick movie and post it or something so you can see it.

 

Here is an example. The first one shows the red spline with the key where I want it, but, the method that the spline runs through the point that is the key makes it move before I want. So, I change the interpolation method of the spline (by right mouse clicking on the previous key and changing it to "linear interpolation") and get the result in the second image. Now, I don't get any movement before I want. Make sense?

 

Hope that helps.

[Steven547]

It's starting to. I realized I was also forgetting to hold the shift key down before selecting the keyframe (big duh on my part). I'll have to look more into this tomorrow. It's 11:30 pm here and i'm sure i wont learn too much half asleep! I appreciate all and every bit of help you can give!

 

Thanks!

 

steven

[jakerupert]

>1. The most common mistake is to go into the animation a ways, move the model, and set a keyframe - forgetting to set a start keyframe, or intermediate keyframes if you want the model to be stationary until some point. If you don't want action to start until a certain point, you have to manually establish stillness at that point. Otherwise the computer will make "inbetweens" starting from a point where you don't want them to start.

 

 

-1.: I tried to fix/adjust the movements of the dress of Lady Goodbody in the walkloop by translating some cps on some keyframes in musclemode.

 

How can I key there original position first, so that I would have the alterations only on the keyframes where I need it?

 

Oops, hope I could make myself clear.

 

-2: If I have used an action in a chor, how can I key its last keyframe, so that the following chor-action will start from there and not at the start

 

and override the action-action?

 

( And 3 how can it happen that an action that plays correctly in the actionwindow, moves slightly above the ground in the chor?

Guess somehow my fault... )

 

(Also the interface not always reacts as expected. The magnifier only works one way, and the scale to fit in the timeline also give strange results,

Am I using them wrong or are these issues that will be taken care of? )

 

Many thanks

 

Jake

[itsjustme]

>1. The most common mistake is to go into the animation a ways, move the model, and set a keyframe - forgetting to set a start keyframe, or intermediate keyframes if you want the model to be stationary until some point. If you don't want action to start until a certain point, you have to manually establish stillness at that point. Otherwise the computer will make "inbetweens" starting from a point where you don't want them to start.

 

 

-1.: I tried to fix/adjust the movements of the dress of Lady Goodbody in the walkloop by translating some cps on some keyframes in musclemode.

 

How can I key there original position first, so that I would have the alterations only on the keyframes where I need it?

 

Oops, hope I could make myself clear.

 

Clear to me...I think. Those control points need to have some movement established to do that...select the points, nudge them one direction and then nudge them back to the original position within the keyframe you want to start. That will give those points a "change" that isn't a change because it is the original starting position. Make sense?

 

-2: If I have used an action in a chor, how can I key its last keyframe, so that the following chor-action will start from there and not at the start

 

and override the action-action?

 

Select the Action in the Choreography, in its' "Properties" change the "Chor Range" start and end points.

 

( And 3 how can it happen that an action that plays correctly in the actionwindow, moves slightly above the ground in the chor?

Guess somehow my fault... )

 

There's probably something you forgot you did...you would have to post the Project for the forum to help track it down.

 

(Also the interface not always reacts as expected. The magnifier only works one way, and the scale to fit in the timeline also give strange results,

Am I using them wrong or are these issues that will be taken care of? )

 

I haven't had a problem with the magnifier in the Timeline...I have no idea what's going on with you there, Jake.

 

Hope that helps.

[jakerupert]

Hi David,

 

Thank you for your help.

 

But still have problem with this:

-2: If I have used an action in a chor, how can I key its last keyframe, so that the following chor-action will start from there and not at the start

 

and override the action-action?

 

 

>Change the chor action Blend method to "Add" ( suggestion from Dhar but the chor range for the actions are set as well )

 

 

what comes after the reaching for the doorhandle. But the doorknock comes beforehand. )

 

To make clear again, what I want to do, first I have the walkaction, then I blend over to the doorknock-action, then I want to continue with a chor-action,

reaching with the arm to the doorhandle.

I moved the whole figur Lady after the doorknockaction has finished to create a new keyframe, then moved her hand to create a new keyframe for her handposition. then moved the hand down to the doorknob.

 

But the result is not as I expected Lady walking in, Knocking at the door and then reaching for the handle but instead Lady walking in with her rightarm stiffly slowly going down to the doorhandle.

 

What am I possibly doing wrong?

[robcat2075]

-2: If I have used an action in a chor, how can I key its last keyframe, so that the following chor-action will start from there and not at the start

 

and override the action-action?

 

This tut shows how to animate after using an action:

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=242421

[Steven547]

OK...think i'm onto something here. I force the keyframe (ONLY IN FILTERED CHANNELS THAT PRE EXIST) for the left foot at the beginning of the timeline (because I dont want this to move yet). Then, I move the RIGHT foot. When I want to start moving the LEFT foot, I force ANOTHER KEYFRAME for the left foot (IN ALL FILTERED CHANNELS). Is this correct? And if so, can someone explain a bit further the difference between the two option when you SHIFT (click force keyframe)? Am I correct in saying that after you force a keyframe, you want to now only select ALL FILTERED CHANNELS when forcing a keyframe because you've already started the "keyframe" process on that bone?

 

OK...ive uploaded my file. Don't think i'm doing it "exactly" right, but it worked. Still need detail on the "keyframe options", but I think i'm slowly understanding it now.

Keyframe_NEW.mov

[robcat2075]

OK...think i'm onto something here. I force the keyframe (ONLY IN FILTERED CHANNELS THAT PRE EXIST) for the left foot at the beginning of the timeline (because I dont want this to move yet). Then, I move the RIGHT foot. When I want to start moving the LEFT foot, I force ANOTHER KEYFRAME for the left foot (IN ALL FILTERED CHANNELS). Is this correct? And if so, can someone explain a bit further the difference between the two option when you SHIFT (click force keyframe)? Am I correct in saying that after you force a keyframe, you want to now only select ALL FILTERED CHANNELS when forcing a keyframe because you've already started the "keyframe" process on that bone?

 

That sounds like you have it exactly backwards.

 

"All filtered channels" will force keyframes on the bones you have currently selected even if it hadn't been keyframed before. This is something you ususally only want to do when you are trying to set a bunch of beginnning keyframes at once, at start of your work.

 

This is not a problem if you only have one bone selected and have the single bone filter on. The trouble starts when you mistakenly turn on the "whole body" filter and force a key fram on "all filtered channels". EVERY bone inthemodel will get keyed whether you wanted it to or not even if it had not been keyed before (such as fan bones that you'd never want to keyframe).

 

On the other hand with "ONLY IN FILTERED CHANNELS THAT PRE EXIST" you can have the "whole body " filter on and it will still only force a keyframe on all the bones you have intentionally keyframed already but no others. This is something you may often do to make sure that a pose you have in a certain frame is nailed down on every bone that you have been animating.

 

The value of that is difficult to explain. There is no simple explanation that covers all the possibilities.

[Steven547]

Well, I sincerely appreciate all the help and assistance....now and future!

 

So let's see if i'm getting this right on these steps (i'm at work so bare with me here)

 

To make right foot move, THEN left foot:

 

1: Click the left foot bone

2: Create a Keyframe by shift+force keyframe and select "pre exist" option (I think it's option 1)

3: Move the right foot to where I want (would I need to create a keyframe on this too?)

4: To move the left foot now, shift+force keyframe on the left foot bone again ("pre exist" option)

5: For RIGHT foot, shift+force keyframe on the RIGHT foot bone ("pre exist" option) so it stays in that place.

6: Move LEFT foot to where I want.

7: After LEFT foot is where I need it to be, shift+force keyframe on RIGHT foot bone ("pre exist" option)

 

Run animation....... correct? or?

[robcat2075]

1: Click the left foot bone

2: Create a Keyframe by shift+force keyframe and select "pre exist" option (I think it's option 1)

 

This won't do ANYTHING unless there is a pre-existing keyframe on that bone ("Pre-existing" means there is one already), which you haven't mentioned doing before this. (forcing a keyframe "only in channels that pre-exist" really means that no new channels will be created where none existed before. If a bone wasn't keyframed before this (which is what gives it channels) it won't get keyframes now with the "Pre-exist " option.

 

There are only two ways to create a keyframe on a bone that hasn't been keyframed yet

 

1-select it and physically move it in the animation window. This is easy. The drawback is that you will only get channels for the kind of moving you did. If you only translated it you will only get translation channels. If you only rotated it you will only get rotation channels. YOu 'd have to do both to get both. Easy on one bone, but a hassle if you want to key several bones at once, which is why we do....

 

2-turn on the single bone filter ("Key Bone", not "Key Branch", not "Key Model"). Turn on the channel filters you want; for most animation that will be just translate, rotate and maybe scale.

 

CTRL-select the several bones you want to force a key on. SHIFT-forcekeyframe, and choose the "all filtered" option. All those selected bones will get keyframed on all the channels you wanted.

 

IF you want to use the "key branch" or or "key model" options later, choose "only pre-exist" when you force a keyframe or you'll get keys on bones you had never intended to get keys on.

 

 

moving a bone will create a keyframe automatically, which is why you don't have to use the force keyframe button very often. Forcing a keyframe is useful when you want to keyframe a bone in the same place that a previous keyframe had left it and make the bone remain stationary from the first keyframe to the new time you're at now before moving to a new position. Like when you want a foot to stay in place before it moves.

 

"key branch" and "key model" are useful when you want to do that to many bones at once rather than having to do each bone separately.

[Steven547]

Wow...i'm actually starting to understand this! Ok..so it took a LONG time to understand ONE issue....but hey, i'm learning!

[phatso]

Like I said, this drives everybody nuts at first. And I learned on other programs, so it isn't just an A:M thing.

[jakerupert]

>2-turn on the single bone filter ("Key Bone", not "Key Branch", not "Key Model"). Turn on the channel filters you want; for most animation that will be just translate, rotate and maybe scale.

 

 

How do I : turn on the channel filter I want?

Have I to move this all manually as well?

 

Sorry , if dumb question

 

;>/ Jake

[robcat2075]

How do I : turn on the channel filter I want?

 

 

 

 

 

The channel filters are the buttons near the bottom left of A:M. The first three are blue boxes with arrows around them. Hover your cursor over them and they have labels like "Key Skeletal Translations"... "Key Skeletal Scale"...

 

The first eight control what aspects get keyed if you force a keyframe. If you have none of them set, no keys will be made at all. Click on the red-green-blue icon at the bottom of the PWS timeline window to actually see these channels. You can reshape them there like splines.

 

the last three (Bone, Branch, Model) control how much of the model gets keyed when you force a keyframe. A single bone, the bone and all of its children, or the whole model. One is always "on". Each of those is modified by choosing the "only pre-existing.." or the "all filtered channels..." options discussed above.

 

Have I to move this all manually as well?

you move a bone "manually" by selecting it and moving it with your mouse, like when you pose a character.

[Steven547]

"Sorry , if dumb question"

 

Trust me, with the questions I've asked on here, NOTHING is a dumb question. Don't be afraid to ask, i've found everyone on here to be extremely helpful and friendly. We're all in the same boat...(although I feel like i'm more of the guy in the canoe being pulled behind the yacht!)

[jakerupert]

Hi Robcat,

 

I worked on this walkcycle here with the key-filters and :

 

Found that I couldn`t paste mirror all the bones-keys and the muscle-keys, that I put on the dress allthough I had every keyfilter pressed.

 

Any idea, what I can be still doing wrong here?

 

( Also couldn´t key the muscle movement later on, that`s why the little twitching in the dress )

 

Hope you can give me some more advice.

 

Thank you Steven for your kind words....

Ladywalk14_050907.mov