In-depth Explanation of the Timeline

[Wizaerd]

At a very high level, a timeline is a timeline is a timeline... I'm familiar with using timelines in other programs (Moho, Flash, etc...) however the one in A:M just confuses the holy heck outta me... Anyone know of any good verbose (with lots of illustrations) explanations of making the best out of A:M's timeline features?

 

Thanx

[Rodney]

For the best indepth coverage of the timeline you'll find a wealth of information out there.

 

Hash Inc has the SIGGRAPH Demo CDs

 

Anzovin has a whole series of Training CDs

- Cristin McKee's CDs look like they would be great information (gonna buy them soon myself. She spends a lot of time in the timeline.)

Studio 45 use to have some CDs. Not too many on the timeline though as I recall.

(These CDs can still be found but are no longer being produced)

 

David Rogers book covers the basics pretty well.

 

Jeff Lew still sells his DVD online.

 

Barry Zundel recently released a DVD (2 more on the way!)

 

*I'm sure I've left out some but these are the A:M-centric ones I know of.

 

 

Most of these authors seem to fall into the class of both animator and teacher.

So you get the best of both worlds.

 

There's nothing quite like watching someone else animate in A:M.

Any of the above would be well worth the investment.

 

There are free resources out there (most of the above have free samples videos available).

Animation Bootcamp is the most likely place you'll find here in the A:M Forum that takes the basics you are learning through TaoA:M to the next level. If you don't have a lot of extra time to track down resources you'll find it easy to support others who are willing to do it for you.

 

Added: At a very basic level... the timeline is just a dopesheet.

[Wizaerd]

For the best indepth coverage of the timeline you'll find a wealth of information out there.

 

Hash Inc has the SIGGRAPH Demo CDs

 

I have the 2005 SIGGRAPH CDs, but I haven't watched every single bit on them. The sound on the different files are so varied, and the one from Shaun Freeman (Animation Basics), the sound is so muffled it's hard to make anything out.

 

I haven't bothered with any of the others, because they're so much older. Perhaps a personal failing in my personality, but I don't want old... I want fresh, new, exciting... heh heh heh

 

Anzovin has a whole series of Training CDs

- Cristin McKee's CDs look like they would be great information (gonna buy them soon myself. She spends a lot of time in the timeline.)

 

I considered buying these as well as The Setup Machine 2 as well, but couldn't justify the cost in my own head until I progressed enough on my own... Plus the age thing, they're pretty old...

 

I can barely model a character, much less be caught up in rigging them so expansively yet. I've built and rigged one real character so far, and it was such a frustrating excercise, I almost gave up right then and there. Fortunately, I'm a bit more determined than that...

 

Since then, I've been building stick people, and rigging them but SmartSkinning them just frustrates me even more that I go curl up in a recliner with a novel instead...

 

Studio 45 use to have some CDs. Not too many on the timeline though as I recall.

(These CDs can still be found but are no longer being produced)

 

Of all the items on your list, this is the only one I've never heard of...

 

David Rogers book covers the basics pretty well.

 

I have the book (the 2006 edition) and boy golly, I've learned a lot from it. A whole lot... But was looking for a more visual medium. He does go into the timeline fairly well, but words & I don't really get along as well as video & I...

 

Jeff Lew still sells his DVD online.

 

This will most likely make me the least favorite poster here, but I bought this DVD, and overall, didn't find it too impressive. I'm certainly impressed with Jeff Lew and his capabilities, but the DVD? eh...

 

Barry Zundel recently released a DVD (2 more on the way!)

 

Was waiting for 2 & 3 before purchasing, that way I can get them all at once...

 

 

*I'm sure I've left out some but these are the A:M-centric ones I know of.

 

Most of these authors seem to fall into the class of both animator and teacher.

So you get the best of both worlds.

 

There's nothing quite like watching someone else animate in A:M.

Any of the above would be well worth the investment.

 

There are free resources out there (most of the above have free samples videos available).

Animation Bootcamp is the most likely place you'll find here in the A:M Forum that takes the basics you are learning through TaoA:M to the next level. If you don't have a lot of extra time to track down resources you'll find it easy to support others who are willing to do it for you.

 

Added: At a very basic level... the timeline is just a dopesheet.

 

Thanx for the feedback Rodney, I guess I'll re-open Roger's book and wait for Barry to get to work... (j/k Barry...) And I suppose I'll attempt watching more of the SIGGRAPH 05 CD...

[Rodney]

I probably shouldn't have moved past Cristin McKee's 'Animate!' CDs so quickly.

If you haven't downloaded the sample videos... you should.

 

If you didn't care for Jeff Lew's DVD then you are higher maintenance than I first imagined.

Not that I've seen the DVD... I don't own it (yet). I did watch his sampler.

If you don't want yours maybe I can buy it on the cheap?

Jeff's DVD is on my 'buy when you've got the spare cash' list.

I really want it... but I also want to keep my money for other things.

 

Concerning Cristin's CD set... its currently #2 on my list... Barry's DVD snuck in and displaced it.

Sorry Cristin!

 

The official 'Animate!' site

 

The content page at her site has her sample videos:

http://www.cristinmckee.net/content.htm

 

Other than watching others work in the timeline the next best thing to do is just dive in and make a whole lot of mistakes... and discoveries.

[robcat2075]

Perhaps you could post a specific question to start, maybe with a screen capture to show what you're asking about.

 

Personally, i prefer the timeline that is in the right pane of the Project WorkSpace (PWS), rather than the window actually named "the timeline".

 

The PWS Timeline keeps everything visible all the time so it's easier to to see the relationship between keys on different bones.

 

but again... post a specific question to start, maybe with a screen capture to show what you're asking about.

[Dhar]

Perhaps you could post a specific question to start, maybe with a screen capture to show what you're asking about.

 

Personally, i prefer the timeline that is in the right pane of the Project WorkSpace (PWS), rather than the window actually named "the timeline".

 

The PWS Timeline keeps everything visible all the time so it's easier to to see the relationship between keys on different bones.

 

 

Could you give a screen cap of what you're talking about?

[Rodney]

Dhar,

Robert is talking about the Channel Editor.

It's the thing that looks like the timeline up and to the right of the Project Workspace.

 

Added: I really hadn't thought that much about it but... I think Robert is right.

The Channel Editor just feels right. Seems to conserve space too sometimes.

Of course there is nothing that says you can't use them both together.

[Dhar]

Thanks Rodney, now I see what he meant. I simply use the same timeline/channel editor that's on the bottom of the screen and simply switch between the two tabs. That's my preference.

[robcat2075]

Remember, it's only "the channel editor" if you have the button pressed to look at the "curves". The other button shows you "that thing which uses red squares to depict keyframes" which may be called "the dopesheet".

 

But both are states of "the timeline". I've never found much use for "The Timeline" window proper since the PWS timeline does all that and more.

[Stuart Rogers]

I've never found much use for "The Timeline" window proper since the PWS timeline does all that and more.

Like you I never used to use the Timeline. However, these days I use it extensively if I'm doing a lot of detailed work on one object - I get the Timeline to show the object's Chor Action Bones folder, and then I lock the Timeline. That way the object's bones are quickly available and I can quickly return to it should I want to briefly adjust some other object via the PWS.

[Dhar]

I get the Timeline to show the object's Chor Action Bones folder, and then I lock the Timeline. That way the object's bones are quickly available and I can quickly return to it should I want to briefly adjust some other object via the PWS.

 

Lock the Timeline? That's a new one to me! How do you lock the timeline?

[luckbat]

With the thumbtack icon.

[Wizaerd]

Something specific... Realize that the bad luck I've had here is mostly due to my own ignorance, and fumbling around...

 

I have a character in a choreography, and I've applied a cyclic action. I have it repeat 6 times, and everything looks pretty good. I created a new choreography action, and wanted it to pick up from the end of my cyclic action. Based on this example, http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...ost&p=51603, I move the time marker to the appropriate frame, make sure my choreography action is selected, and hit the Insert (Force) Keyframe button. No key frame. (I also have the Keyframe Model button selected, as well as the Key Other, Key Pose, Key Constraints, and Skeletal Translations, Scaling, and Rotational buttons pressed).

 

So after hitting insert, and not seeing a new keyframe made, it was time to start fumbling my way through it. The first thing I did was hit Shift Insert, and after selecting one of the radio buttons (probably the wrong one) I certainly got a key frame, although I got one for every object in the choreography. Certainly not what I wanted or needed... So I deleted that keyframe. Eventually I figured out a way to insert a keyframe for just the character I wanted, but as I was re-posing my character, I noticed her material was missing... Not only from the specific frame I was on, but for the entire animation thus far...

 

And now I have no idea how to get it back...

 

My assumptions were:

Insert (Force) Keyframe would add a keyframe. It didn't. (I had to select a bone and wiggle it to make a keyframe... right or wrong, I dunno, but it was the only way I could get a new keyframe there)

 

I realized after the fact that I probably shouldn't have had those other buttons selected when making my keyframe (Key Other, etc...)

 

I chose the wrong radio button in the Advanced Insert KeyFrame dialog

 

I shouldn't have deleted the keyframe after making that wrong choice

 

So that's where I stand. The information in the TAoA:M deal specifically with Actions, and not so much the manual keyframing from an action to a choreography action, or with animating in the choreography. The information from David Rogers books is pages and pages of text with no real good visual guides on how to accoomplish what I was looking for. Some of the other items may or may not have dealt with what I was hoping to accomplish, but I can only spend so much time reading, re-reading, and searching for posts to help out.

 

Hence my request for a brief, yet verbose (with losts of visual examples) of using the timeline... I didn't think what I was trying to do was overly complicated...

[robcat2075]

Based on this example, http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...ost&p=51603,

Hey that's me!

I move the time marker to the appropriate frame, make sure my choreography action is selected, and hit the Insert (Force) Keyframe button. No key frame.

By default it only keys things that have been keyed before

(I also have the Keyframe Model button selected, as well as the Key Other, Key Pose, Key Constraints, and Skeletal Translations, Scaling, and Rotational buttons pressed).

For most animation situations you only need and want the ones I have bolded above

So after hitting insert, and not seeing a new keyframe made, it was time to start fumbling my way through it. The first thing I did was hit Shift Insert,

You're onthe right track here...

 

and after selecting one of the radio buttons (probably the wrong one) I certainly got a key frame, although I got one for every object in the choreography. Certainly not what I wanted or needed... So I deleted that keyframe.

You can set the key filter to "Key Bone" (rather than "Key Model") and SHIFT-select various bones to force keys on bones that haven't been previously keyed, without forcing keys on EVERY bone inthe model.

 

Eventually I figured out a way to insert a keyframe for just the character I wanted, but as I was re-posing my character, I noticed her material was missing... Not only from the specific frame I was on, but for the entire animation thus far...

Mystery to me. POSSIBLY having that "Key Other" button selected might be in some way responsible because that includes making keys on a whole world of horrors that usually shouldn't get keyed. That's just one theory.

 

And now I have no idea how to get it back...

It may be time to reload the model and start over.

 

My assumptions were:

Insert (Force) Keyframe would add a keyframe. It didn't. (I had to select a bone and wiggle it to make a keyframe... right or wrong, I dunno, but it was the only way I could get a new keyframe there)

BTW, after you've used SHIFT-force Keyframe to access the radio buttons, remember to SHIFT-Force keyframe then next time you use it so you can set the radio button back to it's normal, safe "key only bones that are already keyed" mode.

 

I realized after the fact that I probably shouldn't have had those other buttons selected when making my keyframe (Key Other, etc...)

probably right here.

 

I chose the wrong radio button in the Advanced Insert KeyFrame dialog

Using it with "Key Model" was the problem I think.

 

 

 

I shouldn't have deleted the keyframe after making that wrong choice

Not sure

 

So that's where I stand. The information in the TAoA:M deal specifically with Actions, and not so much the manual keyframing from an action to a choreography action, or with animating in the choreography. The information from David Rogers books is pages and pages of text with no real good visual guides on how to accoomplish what I was looking for. Some of the other items may or may not have dealt with what I was hoping to accomplish, but I can only spend so much time reading, re-reading, and searching for posts to help out.

And that's when you should come here to ask a specific question, as you are doing now.

 

Hence my request for a brief, yet verbose (with losts of visual examples) of using the timeline...

see brief verbosity above

 

I didn't think what I was trying to do was overly complicated...

Actually I think this is pretty sophisticated stuff. Knowing when to key something and when to key only part of something isn't always immediately obvious.

[Wizaerd]

And now I have no idea how to get it back...

It may be time to reload the model and start over.

 

I was thinking the same thing as well, ugh... Not looking forward to it tho, it took me forever to get the characters posed in the CHoreography the way I wanted, then added the cyclic motion... Everything was looking good up to that point...

 

Time to investigate saving the choreography poses as actual poses so that when I do re-create it, I can just drop them into the scene and their positioning will be done...

 

Thanx... probably won't get to it til tomorrow night sometime, but I appreciate the assistance anyways...

[robcat2075]

And now I have no idea how to get it back...

It may be time to reload the model and start over.

 

I was thinking the same thing as well, ugh... Not looking forward to it tho, it took me forever to get the characters posed in the CHoreography the way I wanted, then added the cyclic motion... Everything was looking good up to that point...

Just reload the version of the project you saved before things went wrong.

 

What? You didn't save versions of your project? Tsk, Tsk. Save your work frequently. Every five minutes. It's very easy to press a wrong button and not realize it until no amount of undoing will revert it.

 

But you do have your last save. Copy it and try deleting keys until whatever you lost comes back. It's a cheap experiment.

 

That's about all I can suggest without actually seeing how you did what you did.

 

Time to investigate saving the choreography poses as actual poses so that when I do re-create it, I can just drop them into the scene and their positioning will be done...

This will not simplify your workflow, and will yield motion that is very hard to tweak. Better to animate in the chor.

[Wizaerd]

What? You didn't save versions of your project? Tsk, Tsk. Save your work frequently. Every five minutes. It's very easy to press a wrong button and not realize it until no amount of undoing will revert it.

 

Yeah, actually I did do a couple of backups for different stages of construction, but hitting Save As, and typing in a new name is way more complicated than just hitting Save, especially when trying to get my head around something. So no, I don't have an appropriatly Save As version of my project.

 

Anyone have a good way of automating these types of version backups of projects?

[robcat2075]

but hitting Save As, and typing in a new name is way more complicated than just hitting Save, especially when trying to get my head around something. So no, I don't have an appropriatly Save As version of my project.

 

Anyone have a good way of automating these types of version backups of projects?

 

 

Save your project like this

 

Myprojectname_01.prj

 

then, when you "save as" later, just increment the 01 part. Maybe three seconds to do.

 

There are utilities that will autosave every so often, but it's easy enough to do manually.

 

On complicated projects I like to add a bit after the number so I can find major turning points in the project like...

 

projectname_08_bonesadded.prj

 

or

 

projectname_46_smartskinrevised.prj

 

or

 

projectname_73_constraintssimplified.prj

 

This does take longer than three seconds but it makes it makes it easier to revert to before-I-made-a-bad-mistake.