My first animation project

[msfolly]

And a pic

[pixelmech]

Hey thanks Melissa - I'll be checking that out for sure! You've all been a lot of help!

[pixelmech]

Ok, did quite a bit of tweaking. I kind of hate to spoil the ending without it being done right but oh well...there's still a bit more to do. I think I fixed all the sinking feet. I'm wiped out, lemme know what you think.

 

Burned frame nums in for ya

 

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr24.mov

[Dhar]

LOL

 

That was cool.

 

Can you make the lighting actually a glowing electric charge or is the cartoon lightning part of the original design?

[JoshB]

The now RED robot as he walks up the hill his feet are floating down--it would seem they should have a little snap. All you should really need to play with are the curves of the f curves for this motion to give them a little more ease in and out and snap.

 

The secondary animation on the antanae of the toys robot is nice.

 

What would be nice to see is around frame 753 have toys open his eys slowly with his pupils looking up (like rolling his eyes) and then come back down to looking straight. Because, right now it's a little disturbing that he starts walking without looking where he's going. I know he's a robot and doesn't really need to watch where is going--but, still disturbing.

 

When he gets zapped (1045). Have him go straight to spread eagle position. No lift and jump or anything--just snap. And, if you can change his ambience intensity from 0 to somewhere closer to 100% and the color a red-white (otherwise known as pink).

 

Also, if not too much work. Change the background color of your camera to black (just temporary). Add glow to the bolt, and to the red robot when he gets zapped. Mainly I'm just curious what this could give you.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Good points as usual Josh. Now, I'm not seeing the slipping on Red - can you point to a frame #? They seem to stick for me. Do you mean sliding up and down the hill (as in x) or in and out, as in y?

 

Good idea on the spread eagle, dang how'd I miss that? I'm having trouble chaning his appearance when he gets zapped. I have a material attached to him. It seems no matter what I change on his surface attributes - it makes no difference. The material overrides it in the hierarchy How do you get around this?

 

I will try the black on the camera background - good idea again. I want the bold to glow. I could also make it darker too as the cloud floats over him just slightly...

 

On the eyes - unfortunately I do not have a pose slider for his eyes. Maybe I could animate the mesh tho? The eyes are not attached to the head of course...

[JoshB]

On the eyes - unfortunately I do not have a pose slider for his eyes. Maybe I could animate the mesh tho? The eyes are not attached to the head of course...

 

Don't need a pose slider. All you do is place a bone in the eye with the base in the middle--the tip at the pupil. Assign the eye (without the eyelid) to the bone. Add a null that floats in front of the eye. Place an aim at constraint from the eye bone to the null and poof--eye control (a little sloppy but hey it's a short animation), and just make sure they are all children of the head. Then you could go even more cartoony by having the eyes spin inside the socket after his head spins around (Popeye comes to mind).

 

I usually don't use AM materials I use decals--so, I have no answer for this. You might be able to apply an ambience map on the robot. Just make it white and apply it all over the little guy. Then set it to 0% at the beginning of the animation--then around 100% when he gets hit then -100% to make him look charred. I don't know if that works--but, hey can't rain all the time.

 

Alright, floating was a bad way of trying to explain it. You've made it so the feet don't penetrate the hill--however, he is walking in slow motion. It's like he is trying NOT to step through the hill instead of just stepping onto the hill. I hope that was a better explanation.

 

As for the bolt the only reason I want to see it on a black background is because it is more obvious. Then what you can do later once you get the motion as solid as it is going to be. start playing with the elements that aren't to the same level the bolt glow, the background, the ground plane beyond the hill, etc.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Ah - the WALK is floating - not enough weight you are saying. Gotcha. Been struggling with that a bit for sure. Will try and tweak some more. I've made some changes and tweaks which I think help, will post a quick render in a bit.

 

I can't add a bone to the eyes at this point without re-rigging him (its a TSM rig) which I'm not sure I want to do just yet, so I'll put that on the back burner for now, but still may do it.

[JoshB]

I can't add a bone to the eyes at this point without re-rigging him (its a TSM rig) which I'm not sure I want to do just yet, so I'll put that on the back burner for now, but still may do it.

 

That doesn't make sense. But I don't know a lot about the TSM2 rig. I thought it just made a control rig for you. So, in my mind all you should need to do is go under the head bone you had to put in anyway--add the eye bones and nulls--and you're set. But, like I said don't know a lot about TSM2 rig.

[pixelmech]

For the TSM rig, you of course add the bones, apply the CPs etc - then to get your controls you run the rigger wizard. If you want to add more bones, you have to go back to your PRE rig version, then re-rig it. It's not a huge deal, I just don't feel like doing it right now

 

Here's an update, I added more at the end when he get's zapped - let me know what you all think. I also made some small adjustments to the up the hill walk. It can probably use more. The problem is it is not a well crafted walk, I blocked it out badly, so tweaking is only taking me so far.

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr25.mov

[JoshB]

I have nothing more to say--except:

 

you have to go back to your PRE rig version, then re-rig it

 

That stinks.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Hehe - well when I say re-rig - don't misunderstand me. I'd add the new bone, assign the cps then just rerun the rigger wizard. Probably 5 minutes work..yah I m lazy.

[stopmo]

I may try and work a lean into his walk a bit. Frankly, I hate the way his walk looks anyway so I had planned on trying to fix it once more.

 

Thanks for the tips!

For the walk: You might try straightening the legs. As it is, he is walking with his legs bent most of the time but there are a couple of points in a typical walk cycle where the legs are straight. For example, as he is pushing off for his next step, the supporting leg (#1) would straighten out to support his weight as the other leg (#2) leaves the ground. Then as this other leg (#2) swings forward and is about to hit the ground, it usually straightens out until it hits the ground and bends.

 

EDIT: I was looking at ver 24 while making the above comments. I just took a look at ver 25 and see you have improved the walk. Walking on that hill definately presents a few challenges with weight.

[pixelmech]

Part of my problem is I don't have enough keys for the walk I think, when I blocked it out I put in too few. So I can't make as many adjustments as I would like. I'm going to try and tweak it some more.

 

I have the animators survival kit, which is awesome for studying walks. I should have used that when I did that walk.

[Fishman]

I just started reading The Animator's Survival Kit as well and it definitely opened my eyes as to how to structure a walk. You've got a great guide to clean up your walk.

 

As far as rerigging your model goes, do you really have to do that? Isn't your model in AM now? If you add a bone you can place it in the hierarchy where you want it and assign mesh points to it. I don't see why you'd have to rerun TSM. You're not changing anything onn the existing bones, just grabbing some mesh points for the bone you add. I use Josh's simple eye rig and it works great.

 

Minor comments after watching some frame by frame.

 

1) Frames 496-500 Red's hand goes through White's body and head. I think having Red's hand bend back slightly would help avoid this.

2) Frame 502 White forearm goes through Red's elbow. This is only one frame, so it shouldn't be a problem.

3) Frames 516-517 Red's hand goes through White's arm. That's gotta hurt.

4) Frames 686-687 White's hand goes through Red's hand.

 

The lightning strike is excellent and the fall and landing are very convincing.

 

Keep up the effort, it it really coming together.

 

Scott

[Mr. Jaqe]

HAHAHA! "Revenge of the Cloud".

[pixelmech]

I just started reading The Animator's Survival Kit as well and it definitely opened my eyes as to how to structure a walk.  You've got a great guide to clean up your walk.

 

It's the best animation book I have ever read - hands down. Everyone should own it.

 

As far as rerigging your model goes, do you really have to do that?  Isn't your model in AM now?  If you add a bone you can place it in the hierarchy where you want it and assign mesh points to it.  I don't see why you'd have to rerun TSM.  You're not changing anything onn the existing bones, just grabbing some mesh points for the bone you add.  I use Josh's simple eye rig and it works great.

 

You know I might be able to. Since I won't be changing any of the TSM bones, it may not matter so I will give that a try. Do you have a link to Josh's eye rig anywhere?

 

 

1)  Frames 496-500 Red's hand goes through White's body and head.  I think having Red's hand bend back slightly would help avoid this.

2)  Frame 502 White forearm goes through Red's elbow. This is only one frame, so it shouldn't be a problem.

3)  Frames 516-517 Red's hand goes through White's arm.  That's gotta hurt.

4)  Frames 686-687 White's hand goes through Red's hand.

 

Definitely will look into fixing those.

 

The lightning strike is excellent and the fall and landing are very convincing.

 

Keep up the effort, it it really coming together.

 

Thanks a lot Scott!

[pixelmech]

HAHAHA! "Revenge of the Cloud".

I still need to come up with a title. First it was "The fall of communism" (The decal on Red is part of an old communist propaganda poster - it's really hard to see).

 

Now I'm thinking "Lookout hill." I gotta give it some more thought.

[Fishman]

Josh's eye rig was described in an earlier post. Essentially it is a bone for each eye stretching from the center of the eye sphere to the center of the pupil. Then place a null a disctance from the head, in front of the eyes and use an aim at constraint. Then to control the eyes, you just move the eye target.

Make the eye bones children of the head so that your eyes go where your head goes. (I screwed this up once and tilted the characters head and watch in horro as his eyes stayed behind!) Make the eye target a child of one of the bones of the rig (I think even the hips will work) so that it goes when the character goes. Other than that move then eye target and watch the eyes follow it. You can hide they eye bones as you will not be animating them, just the eye target.

[pixelmech]

Oh, got it Scott - I thought you meant something else lol. I will try that!

[Fishman]

Thought of a title - "King of the Hill"

[Dhar]

Thought of a title - "King of the Hill"

Hank will not like that

[pixelmech]

Ok, I'm getting close to being done with tweaking. Anyone have any more suggestions? I changed a few things, want to see if anyone notices...

 

Coming up will be smoke at the end on red., finalize lighting..maybe a few more items in the scenery and finalizing texturing.

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr34.mov

 

Finally..to bed!

[Fishman]

Looking good. You did a great job of solving the intersecting models problem.

 

Only tweak now would be to have the robot fall just a tiny bit faster after he gets struck by lightning. It takes 15 frames for him to land. That is half a second (or more if less fps are being used). I would think that 6 to 8 frames may be plenty. Since I have been so bold, maybe when you shorten the fall, you could exagerate the follow through action. Have the arms almost straight up as he falls and then bounce pretty good on the ground.

 

Really great progress on this one.

 

Scott

[pixelmech]

Thanks Scott - I agree on the fall. I kind of thought it was too slow when I made it then kinda forgot about it. Timing is one thing that I need work on. I blocked the whole thing out mostly in 10 frame increments as my 'base' to work with. I definitely will try and add a bit more bounce too..I mean the guy just got nailed by a lightning bolt!

[JoshB]

I don't think it's the length of the fall so much as the time it takes him to accelerate. Change the slope of the f-curve so he quickly goes from slow to quick to stop.

 

J

[pixelmech]

I understand the curves, but what is the f-curve specifically?

[Newbert_Zero]

Hey nice animation! unless you updated it i noticed somthing though. after he slaps him it "appears" as if there hands go through eachother. maybe its just an optical illusion though. but other then that it looks great! i went through the whole thing in slow mo after i saw it once and you did a great job doing all the little things. you animated him really good too when he got shocked.

 

Oh and another thing I think should change. In the very begining hes idle for quite a long time. i think it should be shortened a little bit.

 

 

Again great animation.

[pixelmech]

Thanks newbert. The hands actually don't touch, but its very close. I'm thinking about the beginning and the length. Once I add some music, I'll know better if it is too long or not.

[Newbert_Zero]

Thanks newbert. The hands actually don't touch, but its very close. I'm thinking about the beginning and the length. Once I add some music, I'll know better if it is too long or not.

ok i thought maybe they wernt but i wasnt sure and i just wanted to tell you just in case. Ya i guess music would make the beggining go by faster.

[pixelmech]

An update. I finally rendered it out with lighting (skylight at this point) as targa images so I could play with render options. You get a much better view now without all the artifacts of what is going on, so you might be able to see some of the more subtle things or offer some more items I can work on. I am finding that my rigging is not what it should be - but thats no surprise. Even though its TSM - it's still up to me to build a good model and assign cps well, which I haven't done as well.

 

The glow on red at the end isn't working real well, I have a lot of work to do with the ending.

 

This is Sorenson compression

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr35.mov [7.5 MB]

[JoshB]

From frame 800 to about 850 when the white robot first starts walking off it seems like he is having issues getting going. Kind of a matrix effect where he is in slow-mo to begin with and then he goes to regular speed. While it does take a person a little time to ease in to full speed it is too drastic right now.

 

Key up the intensity on your shadow throwing light--maybe 5%.

 

As for the glow I have NEVER done glow before so you're on your own--sorry.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Yep, that's been a troublesome spot. Gonna work on that tonight. I'll take the glow off - that was from earlier when I was trying to change his color - might leave it on when he gets struck - but not after.

 

At this point there are just a lot of little things, timing that is not quite there, jerky motions, etc etc that is in a good animation that is missing. I don't have the skill to fix it all, but I'm gonna try and tweak it as best as I can.

[Mr. Jaqe]

Hihihihihiiiiiiiiih... I kinda liked the glowing

[JoshB]

Sorry I missed your f-curve question. When you animate AM create a spline (basically) in between keyframe (cps) this spline initially acts just like a spline when you model. And, just like a spline you model you can adjust the gamma and intensity. Therefore, if you open the timeline at the bottom you should see something that looks like an EKG. Click that and you will see all of your curves. Select the specific bones--and properties if you want--that need changed then adjust them. Hopefully that was a good enough explanation--if not let me know (or hopefully someone can point you to the link that teaches that--I can't remember).

 

J

[pixelmech]

I thought there was something different from an f-curve and a curve ! I've been using the curves all along to animate, can't live without them.

 

Anyway, I worked on the walk at the end tonight, and basically lost 3 hours of work. Tried to adjust the time in the dope sheet and really screwed it up. Tried to rework the walk and it just totally bombed!

 

I figured I better quit for the night before the monitor goes out the window

[JoshB]

Yep sounds like me and painting.

 

Looking forward to an update.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Oooo-k. After much tribulation (trust me) I completely redid the walk down the hill at the end. It's not finished, it's needs lot of tweaking. He more walks off in a huff at a steady rate instead of shuffles. I may try and slow it down some, but I have had so much trouble with it... let me see what you all think.

 

I've made other changes that are probably subtle as well (and lost some changes in the walk debacle) but I don't want to mention them yet, I want to see if they are noticeable at all. I did adjust the fall at the end a bit.

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr40.mov

 

P.S. Anyone know the difference between Sorenson and Sorenson3?

[JoshB]

P.S. Anyone know the difference between Sorenson and Sorenson3?

 

Yves or somebody, could probably tell you the exact difference. But, from my understanding they're different compression algorithms. From what I've noticed it's not so much a size difference it's a quality difference. And, Sorenson3 is the compression method the broadcast design students at my old school used--so, that's what I use.

 

Sorenson3 doesn't compress as much as Sorenson--however, the quality it better--from the test I just ran.

 

I like the eye rolls after his head stops spinning around. The walk off of the white robot is a lot better now. I still think the light is too yellow though.

 

Can hardly wait for the final render.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Updated: I tweaked the ending walk yet again, finally to where I'm fairly happy with it. I slowed it down a bit using the curves, tricky - got a lot of keys in between frames and everything didn't quite line up so I had to adjust a lot - ugh that's painful. But I *think* it reads better. I also added some anticipation and follow through stuff on him as best as I could.

 

There's a few tweaks, minor, I want to make on red. After that its time to decide on the final decals for their fronts (thinking about it), title and maybe one or two more scene items (not sure on that yet either). Then...get it ready for the contest!

 

Have appreciated all the C&C - especially you Josh for taking the time! I'm getting close now so if you see something you think needs fixing let me know now!

 

FYI - the lighting is temporary - I will work on the lighting when I am satisfied with the animation and scenery.

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/rr42.mov

 

This one is Sorenson 3, 12mb.

[JoshB]

Red's walkup seems a lot crisper--nice

 

White's walkoff seems very clean as well.

 

Still can't decide on whether to have that bolt fire once, twice, three times, and/or movement.

 

Seriously--I like the one bolt action you got on this one.

 

Don't touch it--FINAL!!! As it were.

 

I'm getting close now so if you see something you think needs fixing let me know now!

 

I didn't take this seriously--because you just don't want to say that to me.

<-- VERY nitpicky (that's why I haven't posted anything--nothing's too my standards)

 

Looks good. Get the decal done. Let's see a snippit of it in final render mode--to better figure out lighting (specifically frame 800-1075--since these frames have both characters and the background/light changes).

 

J

[agep]

Every time I watch your updates I smile... They are so "simple" yet so amusing... And I watch them several times in a row, and they gets better and better everytime . I did like the glow effect, you'll keeping that? Sorry that I don't have any constructive criticism, just want to let you know that your doing a great job

[pixelmech]

Still can't decide on whether to have that bolt fire once, twice, three times, and/or movement. 

 

In truth this is what it does - on one frame increments - bolt left side, bolt right side, blank, bolt left side (I think hehe) but it happens so fast...

 

Don't touch it--FINAL!!! As it were.

 

HA! Good one! (I too am very nitpicky!) But I do feel it's close...

 

I'm getting close now so if you see something you think needs fixing let me know now!

 

I didn't take this seriously--because you just don't want to say that to me.

<-- VERY nitpicky (that's why I haven't posted anything--nothing's too my standards)

 

No no no no! You've got it backwards, I WANT - NEED - the criticism! I'm not just in this to make mediocre stuff. I want to improve. And you know how it is when you get so close to a project - you close things off that are obvious. At least point out the ones that are at the top of your list!

 

Looks good. Get the decal done. Let's see a snippit of it in final render mode--to better figure out lighting (specifically frame 800-1075--since these frames have both characters and the background/light changes).

 

Thanks, will work on that this weekend for sure.

[pixelmech]

Every time I watch your updates I smile... They are so "simple" yet so amusing... And I watch them several times in a row, and they gets better and better everytime . I did like the glow effect, you'll keeping that? Sorry that I don't have any constructive criticism, just want to let you know that your doing a great job

 

Wow, thanks Stian - I really really appreciate that. I think I like the glow (I mean he is metal, and he just got struck by lightning!) but you don't see it in the shaded renders - it doesn't show up. I'll post some final render tests soon and it will be in there and we'll see how it goes!

[JoshB]

No no no no! You've got it backwards, I WANT - NEED - the criticism!

 

Alright, just remember--you asked for it.

 

White has this startled motion from frame 630 to 670. This motion floats from one pose to the next too smoothly. Also, I don't think it is reading enough like startled. You slowly move down and then slowly go back up. I know it's 1 second--however--for the motion that he is doing it is a very long second. The downward motion from frame 640 to 650 is too low. Instead try cutting the drop in half (for instance if he drops 3cm make it 1.5) also cut the time in half--because this is not the pose this is the in-between motion--let the viewer fill in this motion--try peaking the curve at the keyframe for the bottom of the motion this will give it a little snap (possibly too much--but hey you got to start somewhere). Also, what this allows is for you to have him hold the extended pose slightly longer. Therefore, you can (taking it from the dropped position) raise him up with a small overshoot--then take two or three frames to have him settled to the "frightened" pose (which is frame 655 right now) hold this pose for two or three frames--then have him start his motion to the disgruntled pose.

 

When red points his finger it floats to the right of the screen. Instead try to have his hand fling out--over shoot down slightly then come back to a completely stationary spot for the point. (http://www.panzar.com/Uki.html) Look at the test movie top row in the middle--see the bounce in the hand--that's what I'm talking about.

 

Also, think of the motion as being a whip. You have the motion start at the base then move to the tip. This is the way your keyframes should step. For instance, the bicep should start moving before the forearm, and the forearm before the hand on the forward swing. What this in turn means is that while the forearm is still drifting forward the bicep is already moving back. There is not enough of this happening in your animation it appears as though the motions are in unison. Try stepping your keyframes (you don't have to change any poses--or add keyframes--necessarily) just move the keyframe for the forearm forward in time a couple of frames--then move the hand a couple more frames ahead of that. It's subtle but it will lessen the pose to pose feel of your animation--you've done this in a lot of areas already but there are some spots that could use it more. (http://www.keithlango.com/) Look at the tutorial/article life after pose to pose--if you haven't already.

 

You might want to consider increasing the size of the pupils for the robots because right now they are very small (but, if they're larger in the final render version then that's cool).

 

I'll stop there--I think I've caused enough damage.

 

J

[pixelmech]

Yeah, now that's what I'm talking about! Great stuff, Josh. I'll be working on that stuff and will post an update. I totally agree with all of it - especially about the scared part, that has been bothering me since I made that pose.

 

I have read Keith's articles. I agree I still have some poses that 'stick' too much. Good point about the pupils..in some spots you almost can't see them.

 

Off to f-curves!

[iGeek]

Wow, I really like it! Great twist at the end. I thought it might be nice if the cloud started raining after the lightning. Also, is that the look you're going for with the cloud? I didn't realize it was a cloud until the lightning. Maybe that's what you're going for, in which case it works. Very cool stuff, keep up the good worK!

 

-Zev

[pixelmech]

Thank you Zev - I had thought about rain but didn't want to get into dealing with that at my novice stage. Although I am going to try and make him smoking, that is coming up next.

 

Ok Josh - here's a test render. I worked on his frightened look and arm point, let me know what you think. The lighting is ok - I did some skylight renders that looked just like I about wanted them - at over 5 minutes a frame That's over 100 hours of render time - not gonna happen.

 

What you see here is an 8 skylight rig with a sunlight, single pass with 5% motion blur. I notice reds left foot sinking into the ground a bit, will fix that. Probably will try and tone down the shininess of the bots if I can.

 

http://www.pixelmech.com/movies/test1.mov

[JoshB]

And, all is right with the world. Beautiful.

 

Except.

 

There is something wrong with the curve you have on red right after the slap (501 and 503) it is causing a major motin blur jump (kind of like he's phasing in and out of another dimension--the special effect done on the butterfly effect). The lighting is working quite nicely--no shadows though--this will be a problem as the viewer will not have a visual "Q" that the robots are actually on the ground--but this adds to the cartoony l feel--so, you may want to keep it.

 

The increase in pupil size is working quite nicely. Also, the change in red's eyelids during frames 684 to 750. In the other version it made him seem like he had a bad eye with lid being more opened--it could just be the new lighting/render settings--but, hey it works.

 

The overshoot on the finger point I think is too much right now--the character seems weak. No offense to any women. But, is the difference between a major league pitcher throwing a fast ball and that subtle bounce--vs. my 8 year old niece doing the same arm flying all over the place. With the slap he seems to have some muscle to him. Just lessen how far over his hand goes--by 1/4 or 1/2 and I think you've got it.

 

J

 

*** And, check your skylight post--but I gotta go for now--sorry couldn't stay longer.

[pixelmech]

Thanks as usual Josh, I'll check red at that spot. It's been a troublesome spot (one of many, I know I say that about a bunch of things lol ) since I did it. I'm not sure why the shadow isn't showing - I have the sunlight there, I'll have to check.

 

I agree on the finger not being quite there yet. I'll keep plugging. Thanks for the input again!