itsjustme

It's just about covering all of the possibilities, Ken...or at least as many as we can. Not having the center of the mouth able to cross the center line would look kind of strange to me. Of course, most of that kind of movement can be accomplished using the Maxilla and LowerTeeth bones, but those move the entire upper (Maxilla) and lower lip (LowerTeeth). I'm sure there are going to be plenty of characters that will talk out of one side of their mouth or have an over-the-top sneer or something...that would make the ability to cross the center line of the mouth pretty useful.

Very nice so far, Eric! The patch count sounds very economical as well.

Thanks Mark! I'm just at the end of step 5. Will I be able to continue and get everything right using what documentation is available (steps 6, 7, 'final' and the douments in the zip file) or, should I wait? I see in the model's poses in step 7, poses for scaling and positioning 'switches'. I kind of understand what these are from reading the forum posts. However, I also thought I saw a post saying that the 'switches' were being dropped (removed from the rig). Are these staying or or going? Thanks, Rusty The presently available documentation along with the information posted in this section of the forum would be enough information. If you run into a problem, post, PM or e-mail. I'm slowly getting to the updated tutorial...sorry for the delay. The switches are in there, but, you have to go through a couple of extra steps because they are optional now, Rusty. Those steps should be listed in the included installation instructions.

You are setting the left/right limits (pages 6 and 7) of the center of the lips. Up to that point, that is the only part of the mouth that doesn't have those limits yet. How far depends on the character, but I would think that the limit would not quite reach the next right/left lip spline if the mouth has the number of splines that Squetchy Sam has. Some people would have more splines, so that rule would be a little different for them. Hope that helps.

Aha. Now I'm getting something. I thought I had tried this, but apparently not. As I've marked in the image, the lower sliders don't do alot. Maybe they're the ones I did before. Right, I think I'm set to start setting the limits. You may consider combining the left and right side together in the one slider.....eg left/right mouth upper 2. That would cut the number of sliders and work required to define the limits. I don't know if there's any situation where you would want a-symmetry at this stage. That can be done with the nulls. Thanks for the help David (assuming I have it this time). I'm sure I'll be asking again. The reason those limits aren't doing anything is that they are the "inner" limits...for the wide limit, you need to adjust the "outer" limits. You're probably right about combining the right and left sides, Ken...I'll put that on my to-do list. Thanks!

OK, moving the poses in here gets some movement in the action. All the sliders are defaulted at 0%. Moving them to 100% doesn't do anything though and that's the direction I want the lips to go (the gums aren't showing). How can I edit the bones so they move up further? You shouldn't have to go into any of the Poses and edit the bones, Ken. When you set the limits, what you are doing is positioning bones that define those limits. The mouth bones then will "orient like" those bones at the extremes of the Poses in the "ud" or "lr" mouth Poses. Those limit bones will rotate 30 degrees in either direction, which gives you a maximum of 60 degrees of rotation (for the mouth)...I don't think you understand what I'm saying yet. You don't have to move those Poses manually...use the "face_setup_04_07_2008.act" Action. The instructions list the keyframes, what is going on with the controls at each keyframe and which Poses you need to adjust at those points in the Action. I tried to be as detailed and specific as I could in the "Face_Setup_04_07_2008.pdf" instructions...I'll have to re-read them to see how bad of a job I did getting the information across. Is everyone having the same problem? Maybe my wording is confusing. ----------------------- EDIT ----------------------- Okay, I'll try to clarify a little...maybe it will help. Open the "face_setup_04_07_2008.act" Action, open the "Properties" panel, then highlight the character's name in the "Objects" folder in the PWS...that should allow you to adjust the Pose sliders in the "User Properties/Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup" folders. On the first frame, the lips should be at their maximum width with the upper lip at its' upper limit and the lower lip at its' lower limit. To define those limits, adjust the Poses in the "User Properties/Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/mouth_ud_limits_setup" and "User Properties/Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup/mouth_lr_limits_setup". After you get it like you want, go to the next defined keyframe (frame 5) and follow the next set of instructions in the PDF. Does that help?

Ah. I think something clicked. I use the limits poses to drive the bones and change the shapes and look in an action (using the FACE nulls) to check how they look. If that's the case, I assume all the FACE nulls should move something, but right now only some of the mouth nulls are moving the mouth on my character. The rest don't do anything at all. Is something wrong? The FACE nulls don't come into play yet, that is about the last thing you'll end up doing. First, you have to build the small Poses that make up the FACE Poses. Each lip Pose in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_ud_individual" folder, "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/mouth_lr_individual" folder, and so on have limits that need to be set. The setup Action that is included in the Zip file is to help with the process. That Action has pre-made movements that should give you the extremes that are needed for setting the limits on all of the parts of the face. Open the "face_setup_04_07_2008.act" Action, go to each keyframe listed in the "Face_Setup_04_07_2008.pdf" instructions and adjust the Pose sliders indicated, but adjust the sliders that are in the Properties of the character instead of in the Action itself...that will make the changes a permanent part of the character. Once you have all of the limits set and have tweaked the CP Weighting so that all of the movements look like you want, then you edit the FACE Poses. Since the Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips" folder are edited, most of the heavy lifting would already be done and you can pretty much move those Pose sliders to build the Poses for the FACE controls. Once that is done, I go through and build the Preston Blair Poses that are part of the FACE controls using the FACE controls themselves. I don't use those Poses generally, but it's a good way to double-check everything. Hope that helps, Ken.

Another quick update. This includes the typo fixes in the face setup instructions and the auto hips and spine are set to "not set" in the "FINAL_IMPORT" models. Thanks to Mark Skodacek and Ken Heslip for the corrections. If anyone finds a problem, let us know and we'll fix it as fast as we can. ----------------------- EDIT ----------------------- These files have been deleted, the next update is here.

OK. So does that mean if I move say, the poses inside the folder called upper_lip_ud_upper_limits, then some bones on the face should move inside an action? They don't. Have I done something wrong in the installation? No, the Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls//face_setup" folder are for setting up limits, so those Poses don't move anything (except for a couple that are there to set up cheek movement in squints). If you use the included setup Action, the controls that move things are moved so that you can set the limits. Open the setup Action, go to the keyframes indicated in the PDF instructions and adjust the limits Poses indicated in the model's "Properties" (instead of the "Pose Sliders" for the Action). There should be movement then, but, it will be because you are moving the limits. Hope that helps, Ken.

I posted an update that fixes some typos to the face setup instructions in this post...my brain wasn't working too good, I thought I was in this thread. It's a quick fix for the moment, I'll be posting a rig update late tonight that will include the updated PDF.

Here's an updated PDF of the face setup instructions with the typos fixed (I think I got all of them). I'm out of time for this morning, but I'll post a rig update late tonight...Mark pointed out the need for an added instruction on turning off the auto-hips. Thanks, Ken! ---------------------- EDIT ---------------------- I deleted this file because it is included in the next update here.

I managed to find the poses mentioned here.....they're in a slightly different path location. What I don't get is what to do with the poses. Do I edit them? If I do, what bones am I supposed to move in each one? Thanks. Okay, the path is a slight typo...I'll get it corrected. It should read: All of the adjustments to those Poses should be done using the Pose sliders in the "Properties" of the model...that way, the changes are a permanent part of the model. Also, wait until you have all of the "Face_underlying_controls" Poses set up before you start setting up the "FACE" interface Poses (the "Face_underlying_controls" will be used to drive the "FACE" interface). Think of the "Face_underlying_controls" as the building blocks for the "FACE" controls. Lots of small Poses that can be combined into the larger Poses that are the "FACE" controls. Does that help, Ken?

Yessir, that would be my guess. 100? 0? both? something else? That constraint should be reset when the Pose is "on" to the value that is already assigned (100% enforcement). So, I'd conclude there is something different about the two but I don't know what exactly is wanted in the first one. Are compensates ALWAYS reset at both 0 and 100 even when the instruction don't say so? The compensates are reset at both 0 and 100% when they are percentage Poses. The compensates are reset on on/off Poses in both the on and off settings when they have an FK/IK switch hand-off in them. If the instructions don't specify, assume that it means to reset the compensates in an on/off Pose with the Pose on. The Poses listed on the installation instructions with the FK/IK switch in them are: right_arm_FK_IK right_shoulder_steady right_arm_steady left_arm_FK_IK left_shoulder_steady left_arm_steady right_leg_FK_IK left_leg_FK_IK eyes_aim_at_Master_EyeTarget Hope that helps, Robert.

The TinWoodman's mouth had a lot fewer constraints and Expressions than the present rig. The changes were put in to make installation easier...it does add some overhead though. The added Poses are in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/face_setup" folder for the most part. The "Face_Setup_04_04_2008_instructions.pdf" that is included in the installation Zip shows the process of setting them up using the "face_setup_04_04_2008.act" (also in the Zip). I had a similar slowdown in response in the "RMouthCorner" and "LMouthCorner" controls that I fixed by splitting up the Smartskins. I tried that with the SyncNull, but it didn't appear to speed anything up. I'll try a few more things over the next couple of days to see if there's something that might do the trick, but I'm thinking the big increase in constraints is probably the culprit. Thanks, Ken. I'm sorry for the inconvenience, Mark. I should have made sure that information was more visible.

When I did the overhaul to the face rig, a lot of things were changed to Expressions. The rotation of the cheek and ear bones is done using Expressions now (the 'Y' axis), that made the 'Z' rotation of those bones important and made the origin location better at the bridge of the nose (in my opinion...although there could always be a better location that I'm not aware of). I tried quite a few other locations, but that is what I thought gave the best movement. I mentioned the change in location when that update of the rig was released, but it is buried somewhere in this thread now. Hopefully, I'll get the updated tutorial started soon...I just have to finish modeling the character I'm going to use (I'll be starting a WIP thread for the project I'll be using him in when I get to that point).

If you use the eyelids control, the lids can overlap, if you use the "Blink" control the eyelids will meet at the predetermined location for a blink (which can also be animated). The "Blink" Pose uses a different set of bones that over-ride whatever position the eyelids are in to accomplish the blink. There are example videos of what the eye controls can do here and here. Not at this time, I'm going to be doing an installation tutorial that includes that though...that's what I'm working toward at the moment (I'm modeling a character for my personal project that I'm going to rig in the tutorial...I'm trying to get several things done at once). The installation is similar to the old installation tutorials, but, two nose bones were eliminated, the origin of the cheek bones has moved to the bridge of the nose and the eyelids have more bones (Squetchy Sam is a good example if you need something to refer to). The Poseable installation makes it a lot easier to position things...if you have any questions before I get the tutorial done, post, PM or e-mail and I'll answer them the best that I can. ------------------- EDIT ------------------- I forgot to mention that Mark Skodacek's installation tutorial is the most current. The changes I mention in this post aren't in that tutorial though...hopefully, I'll get to the updated tutorial soon. Sorry for the delay.

A quick update that includes a scaling fix on a couple of bones and two additions/corrections to the installation instructions. The biggest correction is that the instructions needed to have the positioning of the FACE controls done before the InstallRig plugin is run (otherwise the eye targeting gets messed up). I just re-packaged everything for neatness and added the BVH instructions for Zign Track exports and files because they can also be used with the latest version if you would rather use that instead of an exported Action. Thanks to Mark Skodacek and Ken Heslip for the corrections. If anyone finds any other problems, let us know and we'll fix them as fast as we can. -------------------------- EDIT -------------------------- These files were deleted, the next update is here.

You can either use the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/lips_IO_lower" Pose or the individual IO Poses in the "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/lips_IO_LR_individual" folder while animating or you can add the in/out as part of the "Animation_Controls/FACE Interface/Lower Face Poses/Jaw - Tongue controls/JawForward" Pose (which, despite the name, controls both in and out in the FACE controls). Hope that helps, Ken.

I tried the experiment, and didn't have an extra CP. I tried it in v14c and v13t. The only way I could get something that looked like what you are seeing is if I moved the wrong Pose slider...that made the enforcement for that other slider show up, and it's the same color as the "w". Could you have moved the wrong slider somewhere in your process? I'll double-check myself, but I didn't have the same problem the first time through. I'll have to try copying and pasting the keyframes, that would speed things up. Thanks, Ken.

Gee... can't you ask? Or... is it one of 'those' situations (without listing all of the things it 'could' be... here)? It is dependent on the generosity and available time of a programmer. There have been no timeframes or promises of completion. I prefer to not pester someone that is donating time from their already busy schedule. If it happens, fantastic, if it doesn't, I'll use the available tools.

There will be at least one more update soon, but, the fixes in it will be extremely minor. There is a slight bone adjustment that most people won't notice and a change in the wording of some of the installation instructions as has been mentioned in the previous couple of posts in this thread. The version that is the present release should be stable for quite a while, I'm thinking. I'm going to be putting together an updated installation video tutorial (where I'll further check for any problems that need fixing) and I wanted to make sure that it wouldn't be outdated any time soon. If something is found that needs fixing, then there will be an update to address the problem, but it shouldn't change how things are installed or how they work. I don't know for sure, it's a possibility...it's being worked on, but I know very little about how far along it is, Rusty.

If they need renaming then don't worry about it. I thought some in the list weren't in alphabetical order. So, I thought you could drag constraints to anywhere in the tree. I'll have to check. But an automated plugin is the best route. That'd be great. Changing the order of the constraints could mess up how things work together...so that most likely wouldn't be the way to go, Ken.

Good job, Eric!

So shouldn't it say 0.1% instead of 0% there? It could be confusing to people who don't know. Just so I'm clear.....when I'm doing the w component later, all three cps in the timeline (0%, 0.1% and 100%) should be in a straight line when I'm finished right? I should probably make that more clear, you're absolutely right, Ken. I'll update the instructions on the next release. Yes, it should be a straight line on 0%, .1% and 100%. The 0% setting shouldn't matter unless the setting on the interpolation is something other than "linear" though. Well, that's what I meant. I'm hunting through a sea of constraints in the PWS for the correct ones. Very slow. The problem with re-naming the bones to make resetting the compensates easier is that it will also affect their locations in the bones list in the Timeline while animating. After a few times through the process, it becomes a lot easier. There is a possibility that the compensate resetting can be automated...it's being worked on, but that doesn't mean it will happen soon or at all.

It says to set the enforcement to 0%, but the slider only goes to 0.1%. What should be done here? It's probably this part that's making the extra cp. The "Animation_Controls/Face_underlying_controls/lips/Maxilla_to_LowerTeeth" is one of the Poses that doesn't go to "0" (so it will have a double key, but that shouldn't affect anything). I think you mean "head_geom_front" and "head_geom_back", right, Ken? Those make it where you can squetch the front of the head separate from the back of the head. You should only have to pick the the constraints in the Poses to reset them (that will also select the correct bone)...you don't have to pick the bones.