Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 7, 2021 Hash Fellow Share Posted October 7, 2021 A few experiments toward getting a nice human Sub Surface Scattering result. "Loyd" model by Steve Shelton. Default surface (no SSS) render... Sub Surface Scattering renders. Pink and less pink... I've turned on some Surface "noise" to suggest the pores in the skin. SSS with Ambient Occlusion... Separate AO render... Curve-Adjusted AO... SSS render composited with adjusted AO... Separate specular render... Composited SSS+ AO +Specular... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 7, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 7, 2021 A few more variations... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Interesting... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 There is a Blender tutorial that I thought could be duplicated in A:M here...the issue I ran into was that currently bump maps and materials don't work with SSS (it has been reported). Displacement maps and materials work with SSS, but the render times would be higher and, depending on percentages, could noticeably bloat the character. Although for testing purposes, a similar material to the one in the tutorial with a 1 percent displacement should give you a good idea...or you could go the compositing route. I'll try to render an example tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I'll have to do more testing, but here is a composite of two of the images I rendered. The first image had no SSS and a displacement material, the second was identical except it had SSS. SSS requires a lot more displacement than I had time to mess with tonight, I had it set at 30 percent and didn't see anything...so, for tonight, I just combined the two images. So, there is a little SSS and some displacement. It's hard to see in a browser, you will get a better view in a paint program so that you can zoom in close. Of course, to do a decent job of it would require some color maps and I would prefer to use a bump material or map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 10, 2021 19 hours ago, itsjustme said: I'll have to do more testing, but here is a composite of two of the images I rendered. It's still a bit dry. Can you make it warmer? I like those eyebrows. Is that standard hair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 10, 2021 A few more Loyd experiments... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 Here's another test...the displacement is set to 100 and I added some more specular. I moved the lights to get a better view of the SSS as well. Currently, the material covers all of the skin, but I'll have to do some experiments with some Groups to have it different on the lips. Might have to paint it for that. I'll have to play with the color to warm it up a bit...I'll also look into painting a few areas. I'll try another one tomorrow. The hair is the hair material applied to Sam's brows...it does use MuhHair. However, I think it's picking up some of the changes to the underlying geometry as well. I might have to move the eyebrows to a sub-dermal layer to prevent that. Nice tests, Robert! I think the SSS is a bit too high on them, but the SSS settings I'm using might be a bit too low as well. For this image I went with the "Skin2" setting (1.3, .85, .56). -------------------- EDIT -------------------- It was actually "Skin1" settings (1.3, .85, .56)...same settings but wrong name initially. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 10, 2021 I think, for animation, you have to go bigger rather than smaller for the SSS to register. When I look at commercial movie characters they are usually making sure you see it. Something I wonder is, why do the small SSS setting take longer to render than the big ones? That makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 10, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 10, 2021 However, here is the same SSS settings but with a much wider light. Either the softer light or the lack of sharper specularity has made it look maybe too gelatinous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 When I try rendering this working PRJ in v15 or v16 to compare render times I just get black for SSS. Any idea what's up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 12, 2021 Share Posted October 12, 2021 I was aware that that is the case for quick renders, but I haven't seen it in a full render. I also haven't checked earlier versions for quite a while. Here are some quotes from Yves from this post. Quote SSS does not currently wok in Quick render or Progressive (Render-Lock) mode. This is more a user interface issue and I need to implement something similar to "calculate radiosity" in the choreography context menu. Quote Indeed, setting the SSS properties on a material is not designed to work and will be disabled in future releases. I'm not sure if anything changed following that post. Considering the skin texture would be different on the lips, decals for the actual texture and one Group for the surface settings (SSS, etc) would be the way to go. I got some (what I think are) improvements by dinking with a few things. Here are some settings I've tried: Specular size: 3000 Specular intensity: 30 SSS: 3.9, 2.55, 1.68 (Skin1 settings multiplied by 3) I'm currently doing some flattening in order to paint the textures (I've been messing with 3DPaint and Krita along with a drawing tablet) and I've made the eyebrows sub-dermal. Hopefully, I'll have an improved render in a day or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 Quote Indeed, setting the SSS properties on a material is not designed to work and will be disabled in future releases. That was the problem, David, thanks! After transferring my SSS settings to a regular group I was able to render in v15. render times... v15 177 secs v19 39 secs That is a substantial speedup. Thank you, Steffen Gross! (@yoda64 ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 Here are some frames from a spin-around of the light... I put a gradient on the specularity so it is stronger on edge than flat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 I don't think Displacement maps work right in SSS. When this rectangular map is applied to a surface it seems that the 50% gray is being interpreted as negative displacement instead of zero. Ouch! Edit: this appears to be problem even without SSS Edit edit: It's a problem with PNG! If that decal is saved as a JPG the 50% displacement works correctly. Must be something to do with the weird way PNG makes its alpha channel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 If I craft a displacement map for a wrinkle line it has an unappealing grayness to it on an SSS surface Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 12, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 12, 2021 Wider wrinkle still not right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted October 13, 2021 Share Posted October 13, 2021 I never had much luck with displacement or bump maps using OpenEXR (not sure if it's a bug or not), I've been using TGA's. I think they work correctly...although I have been wrong before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 13, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 13, 2021 I've used OpenEXR quite a bit and gotten good results. It's the only way to not have the stair-stepping on large displacements. The down side is there aren't many paint tools for it. Most of my OpenEXR maps are renders of spline models. New attempt. I made the wrinkles extra huge. If the light catches them just right they look like a shape but otherwise they look like a gray line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 14, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 14, 2021 This version has almost no shading of the wrinkle in the color pass. The shape of the wrinkle is suggested by the specular pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 15, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 15, 2021 First look at "Stan" with SSS Another Steve Shelton model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted October 15, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted October 15, 2021 With forehead lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 The only material on this version of Sam is the basic cell turbulence displacement, SSS is 2.6, 1.7, 1.12, specularity is controlled by two decals (Spec size and Spec intensity) and all skin color is a decal which comes from a painted Krita image file where the layers can be adjusted or exported individually (each layer painted in 3DPainter, then adjusted in Krita). The backlit image is two back lights, the lit image is the same two back lights with an additional key light (not the best lighting...needs adjustment) and the animation is a single light spun around Sam over two seconds. I still need to add the wrinkles (maybe eyelashes), but I thought it wasn't a bad set of test renders. Sam_11_16_2021_light_spin.mp4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 18, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted November 18, 2021 Those look good! The video looks warmer than the stills, but it's all the same renders? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted November 18, 2021 Share Posted November 18, 2021 It's the same Choreography...the back-lit image has two lights, the video is one of those lights spun around Sam and the lit one is the two back lights with an additional front key light. They aren't the best lighting setups to get a beauty render, but they were useful for setting the SSS and overall checking of things. Once I get the wrinkles in I'll see if I can do a better job of lighting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted December 25, 2021 Share Posted December 25, 2021 Still a lot to do, but I liked the render. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 26, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted December 26, 2021 He looks good, David! How are you doing the bulge of the lens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 8 hours ago, robcat2075 said: He looks good, David! How are you doing the bulge of the lens? I didn't do anything special with the lens. If I remember correctly, it's a 70mm...maybe there's a little distortion because of how close he is to the camera. It would probably flatten it out if I used a 50mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted December 27, 2021 Author Hash Fellow Share Posted December 27, 2021 4 minutes ago, itsjustme said: I didn't do anything special with the lens. If I remember correctly, it's a 70mm...maybe there's a little distortion because of how close he is to the camera. It would probably flatten it out if I used a 50mm. I meant the lens of the character's eyes. The eyes appear to be not just spheres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsjustme Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 5 hours ago, robcat2075 said: I meant the lens of the character's eyes. The eyes appear to be not just spheres. Oh, no they are not just spheres. They are built like the eyes in my eye modeling tutorial....the publicly available Squetchy Sam has the same eyes. The cornea is a disk that is added to the front of the eye...here are a couple of images and the settings for the cornea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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