detbear Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Hey Everyone. I was watching a demonstration on Marmoset Toolbag where game professionals drive SSS in their characters using a Translucency Map. Basically the "Greyscale" map controls how much or how little SSS effects specific areas. That way, you can have more SSS in areas like ear lobes, etc. I wonder if A:M could do this via one of the Map types in the decal selections. OR if a new Map type could be created to control this in A:M. Kevin Quote
detbear Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 Here is the link to that demo. The SSS/ translucency map section starts at 16:00. So just run it up to that point to see him working on that. www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKWWA4tv6yY Quote
Admin Rodney Posted November 23, 2015 Admin Posted November 23, 2015 I haven't check out the link yet but decals do effect the SSS in A:M.I'd have to check again to see what effect patch images might have but varying the color on layered patch images should also have an interesting effect.While I know there is some difference to the current approaches when I first saw the idea of SSS being controlled by image maps my thought was... I think A:M can already do that. It's well worth the look into what effect various maps can have.Thanks for the video link. I'll check it out. Quote
detbear Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 Hey Rodney, I was thinking at first that there might be a current map type that could be used in this manner. But on a quick try, I couldn't find one that worked. HOWEVER, I still think it may somehow be possible. By making changes in the image(Via photoshop, etc.) you could control the SSS strength and placement. Quote
John Bigboote Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 That looks cool... realtime render! A:M's SSS feature is working quite nicely nowadays, and seems a swift render feature as well... So- you are saying can we add a 'translucency map' to the decal map types? Interesting... translucency in A:M is one of those features I never really got a grasp of as to what it does or can do. I've been toying with it and SSS together... would the ambience intensity map type do similar with the appropriate color? Quote
Admin Rodney Posted November 23, 2015 Admin Posted November 23, 2015 As translucency is primarily a setting in a Named Group I'd would say that image maps (patch images) can be created to drive that translucency. I don't recall decals specifically having a setting for translucency. Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 23, 2015 Hash Fellow Posted November 23, 2015 One path I see is to apply the grayscale map that indicates how strong the SSS effect should be, render with that as a greyscale image (flat shaded, of course) and use that to composite a SSS render with a non-SSS render and using the greymap to control how much of the SSS render shows thru vs. the non-SSS render. Quote
John Bigboote Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 One thing to keep in mind, and this SSS workaround does not consider... is that SSS is a light-driven effect, meaning that a strong backlight is needed in order for it to show-up. Good examples of SSS are a flickering candle where you can see the light absorbing and diminishing thru the wax... or a flashlight held up to your hand, where you can see the light illuminate thru the thinner parts of your flesh. Element 3D, which has a nice SSS effect, requires the usage of either a backight/rimlight or an HDR optimized for SSS, and I have found the same holds true in A:M- where I place a strong (200%ish) sun or bulb light behind or rim-lighting the character I want an SSS effect on. You can place the light in a light list so it only effects the character and not the entire scene should you want. Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 23, 2015 Hash Fellow Posted November 23, 2015 One thing to keep in mind, and this SSS workaround does not consider... Which one do you mean? My suggestion or another? Quote
NancyGormezano Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Did some more SSS testing (18n/64 - varying the decal color % only, all white lighting) here Yes SSS has many tricky bits, related to lighting, color, modeling, SSS settings, etc Quote
John Bigboote Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 One thing to keep in mind, and this SSS workaround does not consider... Which one do you mean? My suggestion or another? The translucency map method that William was referring to... your's employs A:M's SSS. Quote
detbear Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 I think Robert is correct that the main effect of a "Masking" map would hopefully be able to allow where the SSS actually shows through on a model. So that SSS would show up in the lighter places. And you could blur the greyscale map to feather the edges. I don't know if the SSS in A:M could be masked like this via a decal map though? Quote
NancyGormezano Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) I don't know if the SSS in A:M could be masked like this via a decal map though? currently - No. A 100% decal does not necessarily hide the SSS effect. Darker decal colors might make it less noticeable You might try playing with a gradient material and varying the SSS between the attributes. Yes I will. EDIT: just tried controlling effect with a gradient - does not seem to be very controllable wrt to SSS. Gradient does effect somewhat if you want to limit control to % of edge (like a fake rimlight) - but it's not easily tweakable. Edited November 23, 2015 by NancyGormezano Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 23, 2015 Hash Fellow Posted November 23, 2015 I think Robert is correct that the main effect of a "Masking" map would hopefully be able to allow where the SSS actually shows through on a model. So that SSS would show up in the lighter places. And you could blur the greyscale map to feather the edges. I don't know if the SSS in A:M could be masked like this via a decal map though? This isn't something that can be done in one pass... within A:M. It requires compositing of three passes... the SSS pass, the non-SSS pass and the pass that shows the greyscale SSS-intensity pass. The additional render time for the SSS-intensity pass would be negligible. If someone wants to post me a simple SSS PRJ I can show how it's done. Something with an obvious SSS case like backlit ears. Quote
John Bigboote Posted November 24, 2015 Posted November 24, 2015 I don't know if the mask on the model is needed, since SSS is self-cancelling. You could render your normal pass, then render a black pass with the SSS as white and composite it additively in post- being able to crunch, blur, and color as you see fit. SSS only shows up on groups where it is activated and only shows in the thinner geometries. Quote
Hash Fellow robcat2075 Posted November 24, 2015 Hash Fellow Posted November 24, 2015 I don't think that will get the result the top post is aiming for. Quote
detbear Posted November 26, 2015 Author Posted November 26, 2015 Like the Cookie cutter map type. It allows what is beneath it to appear everywhere that there is no image via an alpha channel. I was thinking this could possibly be used in correlation with controlling what areas SSS could be seen. Quote
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