Simulate spring systems always greyed out

[jason1025]

I cant get simulate spring systems to not be greyed out. please help. WHat is the trick?

[robcat2075]

Have you actually made a spring system? I've never done one.

[jason1025]

see attached. A spring system is just a dymanic constraint. Its very powerful, extremely easy and in V17 and v18 broken.

CC_FX_S2_V005.prj

[jason1025]

this is the best tut. you need techsmith codec. You can see he simulates springs systems which is impossible with our current software.

DynamicConstraint_.mov

[John Bigboote]

ooops... yeah- I see. That can't go away. You can always render without simulating, but- sometimes you gotta simulate! To imitate this error without DLing Jason's project... open-up any boned model or character in your chor... select a bone and apply a dynamic-constraint to it- at this point, you used to be able to run a simulation of all the springs in the scene to see how they would 'spring' once rendered. There was always an issue too, that a simulation seemed to get different results than a straight-out render... but the simulation gave you keyframes for all the axis affected, which you could modify/edit to get more or less effect. A great feature. I seem to remember it working in V17, no? I'll check. This may need a report. EDIT- yes, broken in V17. I can't believe I havent noticed this!

 

EDIT EDIT: I think it is now called 'Bake Dynamic Systems' which is the next choice down on the list... seems to do the same thing. Perhaps the 'Simulate Spring Systems' menu option simply needs be removed programmatically. I would from time to time refer to it as SSS- which has come to mean something else altogether.

[robcat2075]

I haven'[ watched the video yet... however... there are tools to make "spring" systems (add spring) which I've never used. Are we talking about those or are we talking about dynamic constraints on bones?

[jason1025]

ooops... yeah- I see. That can't go away. You can always render without simulating, but- sometimes you gotta simulate! To imitate this error without DLing Jason's project... open-up any boned model or character in your chor... select a bone and apply a dynamic-constraint to it- at this point, you used to be able to run a simulation of all the springs in the scene to see how they would 'spring' once rendered. There was always an issue too, that a simulation seemed to get different results than a straight-out render... but the simulation gave you keyframes for all the axis affected, which you could modify/edit to get more or less effect. A great feature. I seem to remember it working in V17, no? I'll check. This may need a report. EDIT- yes, broken in V17. I can't believe I havent noticed this!

 

EDIT EDIT: I think it is now called 'Bake Dynamic Systems' which is the next choice down on the list... seems to do the same thing. Perhaps the 'Simulate Spring Systems' menu option simply needs be removed programmatically. I would from time to time refer to it as SSS- which has come to mean something else altogether.

 

 

 

The dynamics will not render at all for me even on simple tests.

 

 

please view the video. This is a very powerful useful feature of am and it is broken now

[jason1025]

I cant get bake to work either

[jason1025]

Please see this video to see all the broken issues. problems get worse towards the end of video because you cant keey relationship properties that are in the model. Only relationship properties / constraints applied in the chor.

 

 

Dynamic_constraints_spring systems broken_.mov

[robcat2075]

see attached. A spring system is just a dymanic constraint. Its very powerful, extremely easy and in V17 and v18 broken.

 

I tried loading that but aside from many images it asks for an .act file that is not embedded in it.

[robcat2075]

I've tried the essential demo that you did in your video. (I have not watched the 150 Meg video yet.)

 

It is indeed broken in v18.

 

It does work for me in v17

 

in v17 I can "Bake Dynamic Systems" to get the dynamic constraint action keyed on every frame.

 

(Note that as far as I know this stuff has always been called a "dynamic constraint" and
"Bake Dynamic Systems" is the way to lock it in. "Spring systems" are something else entirely that I have not looked at. They had something to do with the old cloth scheme.)

 

In your video you are trying to key the stiffness of the constraint, but you are changing the value of stiffness in the model's properties. you can't key anything in the model, only set a value.

 

For any model parameter to be key-able it would have to appear in the properties of the model in the action. However, even if I turn on "show more than drivers" the properties of the dynamic constraint are not available. "Lag" and "Enforcement" for the relationship the constrain is in are available.

 

 

Hold it... It is possible to add the constraint in the action rather than in a pose that is turned on in the action.

 

I can do that (I'm still in v17) and key the stiffness parameter. This sample PRJ shows the constraint added in the action and the parameter keyed in the action. The floppy pillar starts out at 100% stiffness and then transitions to 50% stiffness.

 

Floppy04.prj

 

 

 

Hold it... I've gotten a little farther in your video and it seems you have discovered this approach.

 

Was it ever possible to have this key-able means other than by first adding the constraint in the action or the chor?

 

My suggestion... You need this baked? In v17, add the constraint in the chor or action you want to use and "Bake Dynamic Systems" in v17. Save, and then you can render in v18 if you have to.

 

 

Note that if you bake a simulation in an Action that you intend to repeat in a chor, it is extrememly unlikely that the simulation will match at the beginning and end of the Action. You'll get a jump when the Action loops.

 

It is better to only key your regular bone animation in the Action, use the Action in the chor however you intend to, and then Bake in the chor.

 

 

I recommend submitting a bug report on the baking problem. include a sample PRJ and show that it works appropriately in v17 but not in v18.

[jason1025]

can you add your info the the bug report i made

[jason1025]

If you watch the tutorial i believe he uses simulate spring systems not bake dynamic constraints.

[John Bigboote]

I don't have time to DL and view your videos, I apologize- busy day. Coupla thoughts:

 

1- SimSpring Systems = Bake Dynamic Systems (If it is an older video, it would be called SSS...)

2- When you do the bake, MAKE SURE the red 'A' for Animate Mode is on, or else no keyframes will hold.

3- 'Remove Simulation Data' takes away the keyframes

4- It is good practice AFTER you run the bake operation to delete or disable the dynamic, or you could preview doubled results.

 

I just tested all of this in 18.0G on a 1 bone spring(dyn constr) and it all worked as expected.

[jason1025]

This video is 3 minutes long and specificaly shows how hash ink says to simulate the spring systems. Its broken. And I can get my project to load in V17.

 

He also says motion blur will not work without it which is what I need.

HASH_INK_DynamicConstraint_.mov

[robcat2075]

This video is 3 minutes long and specificaly shows how hash ink says to simulate the spring systems. Its broken. And I can get my project to load in V17.

 

He also says motion blur will not work without it which is what I need.

 

Did you really mean "can't"?

 

 

I note that that video is done with AM2005 and the "Bake Dynamic Systems" menu item isn't there.

 

However it is in AM now and "Bake Dynamic Systems" now does what the "Simulate Spring Systems" did back then with the same result of creating keys in the timeline.

 

The feature is still there in v17, just under a different name.

[NancyGormezano]

I don't have time to DL and view your videos, I apologize- busy day. Coupla thoughts:

 

1- SimSpring Systems = Bake Dynamic Systems (If it is an older video, it would be called SSS...)

2- When you do the bake, MAKE SURE the red 'A' for Animate Mode is on, or else no keyframes will hold.

3- 'Remove Simulation Data' takes away the keyframes

4- It is good practice AFTER you run the bake operation to delete or disable the dynamic, or you could preview doubled results.

 

I just tested all of this in 18.0G on a 1 bone spring(dyn constr) and it all worked as expected.

I tested a simple 3 bone chain with the dynamic constraint applied to last bone in chain (on 1st frame in 30 frame chor) and "bake dynamic" works as expected in 18a, ie - produces keyframes for "transform.dynamic results".

 

tested the same in 18g, and does NOT produce keyframes past frame 0, but does create channels for the transform.dynamic results. However it appears that the "baking" process never ends, goes on forever, have to stop it with escape. Tried with OGL, OGL3 - no difference.

 

(

[robcat2075]

Following up on Nancy's test.... i find that v18d is the last one in which "Bake Dynamic Systems" works.

 

It appears to be broken first in v18e

[robcat2075]

"Bake Dynamic Systems" appears to be fixed in the upcoming v18h.

 

My brief test shows it correctly creating keys for the duration of the animation.

[John Bigboote]

Good news!

[robcat2075]

Thanks to Jason1025 for noticing it!

[John Bigboote]

Yeh- that's a BIGGY.

[jason1025]

Are you bet testing versions before they go live?

[robcat2075]

Are you bet testing versions before they go live?

 

Yes, although we don't catch everything

[jason1025]

i would be glad to help if you like

[Tara51]

I think there is a glitch or a bug.. It crashed on me every times i used and tried out on simcloth and Simulate Spring Systems. DANG. It crashed on me. In my mind, are they using old and new programs together for simcloth to it works?

 

Holly

[Fuchur]

I am not sure why, but it works for me...

(18m)

 

Try this one. Does it work for you?

 

See you

*Fuchur*

 

PS: For simulation I used "Bake Dynamic Systems".

mini_dynamic_constriant.prj