Ol' Scratch

[cribbidaj]

Hello -

 

attached is a short dance animation test I've done in A:M for a music video to my song "Ol' Scratch".

 

I know, I know . . . there are various aspects of the rigging and animation process which are, to be generous, flawed . . . but the spirit is there!

 

In short, I really love this software and the creative and helpful people here on these forums. I am in awe of how intelligent, insightful, and quick to help all of you are - thank you!

 

To rig my biped models I feel compelled to thank David Rogers for this brief tut: http://am-guide.com/SetUp/

 

My models still give me trouble in the "knee, elbow, and hip" joints, some of which could be alleviated were I to use "fan" bones, and were I to really delve into rigging properly. I say this humbly, welcoming advice from anyone here who sees answers to any glaring missteps.

 

That said, I hope you get a kick outa this short sequence!

ol_scratch.mov

[robcat2075]

I did enjoy that.

 

If you're going to have trouble rigging, a thin character like that is the one to have it with.

[cribbidaj]

I did enjoy that.

 

If you're going to have trouble rigging, a thin character like that is the one to have it with.

 

Yeah, Robert, I guess the close proximity of control points can create havoc while animating.

 

I normally just use one "smartskin" relationship per bone (and, honestly, I don't use smartskin on every bone), which probably explains a lot. Weighing the control points is also something helps, although my process is at best random and pretty "uninformed". One quick question: To what use would I create more than one smartskin on a bone? Hack that I am, I just manipulate a bone at various angles in a smartskin and start moving points to my liking. While this offers some decent results, I still find myself sometimes (not often) moving control points within an action to serve my purpose.

 

Some of the great animators using A:M (Anzovin, and whoever it was that years ago created that warrior princess walking through a jungle) seem to get flawless movement from their A:M models. I wish to work towards that kind of seamless joint movement.

 

Obviously, my using Toon Render/Lines Only is a shameless way to hide glaring obstacles in my path to enlightenment.

[robcat2075]

I did enjoy that.

 

If you're going to have trouble rigging, a thin character like that is the one to have it with.

 

Yeah, Robert, I guess the close proximity of control points can create havoc while animating.

 

No, I meant that, the thin characters will be the most forgiving for rigging oversights. Like Woody in "Toy Story"

 

I normally just use one "smartskin" relationship per bone (and, honestly, I don't use smartskin on every bone), which probably explains a lot. Weighing the control points is also something helps, although my process is at best random and pretty "uninformed". One quick question: To what use would I create more than one smartskin on a bone? Hack that I am, I just manipulate a bone at various angles in a smartskin and start moving points to my liking. While this offers some decent results, I still find myself sometimes (not often) moving control points within an action to serve my purpose.

Smartskin can accommodate keys in any direction. I can't think of any cases where you would need more than one smartskin. Maybe there is.

 

My own preference for most joints is to use fan bones.

 

Some of the great animators using A:M (Anzovin, and whoever it was that years ago created that warrior princess walking through a jungle) seem to get flawless movement from their A:M models. I wish to work towards that kind of seamless joint movement.

 

Nice movement is really more about animation than rigging.

Obviously, my using Toon Render/Lines Only is a shameless way to hide glaring obstacles in my path to enlightenment.

 

I thought that looked cool. It almost looked like an animator's red pencil sketch.

[Simon Edmondson]

Chris

 

I'm not in a position to offer advice on rigging but I did enjoy your animation. The movement was fine and I especially liked the look of it. What settings did you use for the render ?

regards

simon

[cribbidaj]

Chris

 

I'm not in a position to offer advice on rigging but I did enjoy your animation. The movement was fine and I especially liked the look of it. What settings did you use for the render ?

regards

simon

 

Simon -

 

In my model, I created a group called "Head" and in the surface properties I set the line color to a "red" that I liked. Line Thickness for "Head" = 1, Toon Bias = 6. Another group I named "Body": color = red; Line Thickness = 1; Toon Bias = 3. A third group, "Teeth": color = red; Line Thickness = .85; Toon Bias = 20.

 

The reason I set the "Head" group at a different Toon Bias is because it is more complex in splines and cps and I experimented til I attained the look I wanted.

 

In Rendering options, I chose "Toon Render/Lines Only".

 

In the Choreography I've hidden the "Ground" and chosen "white" as the camera's background color.

[cribbidaj]

Nice movement is really more about animation than rigging.

 

Point taken. So, is rigging really just a process of learned preferences? Is there no really tried & true biped rig?

I thought that looked cool. It almost looked like an animator's red pencil sketch.

 

Thank you. Yeah, I really liked these rendering options for this as well, though A:M's "White Render" parameters create stunning results when I have the time and patience (& processing power) to use it. This animation is aver 450 frames. I can only imagine the "white render" time using my poor, feeble computer.

[robcat2075]

Nice movement is really more about animation than rigging.

 

Point taken. So, is rigging really just a process of learned preferences? Is there no really tried & true biped rig?

 

 

 

Rigging is knowing the possible tools and recognizing when to use them. There certainly are some common practices but every character has different shape so something different is gong to be done on each one.

 

I always "use" TSM2 because I have become familiar with animating characters that have that set up but i always have to add stuff here and there to accommodate novel circumstances.

 

 

Rigging is the wall most people who set out to do 3D animation run into. They may learn to model, they may make animation with a character someone else set up but getting their own character rigged is where they run out of gas. A:M is easier than the others because our thin meshes reduce the complexity of what to attach to what bone but it is still not as conceptually obvious as modeling or animating.

[NancyGormezano]

WOW! - I loved it!

 

Loved the render style, movement, music! well, well done!

 

The toon lines look great, and that is probably where the render hit comes from.

 

There are ways to do a "white render" that are lickety-split fast rendering, and even have a ground shadow, but the lines will still add time.

 

In general:

have ONLY 1 light klieg with z-buffered shadows (tweak the shadows darkness, softness to your liking)

have ground plane options set to front projected, flat shaded (in chor)

set your model option in chor to flat shaded only (not front projected, also assuming your model's surface diffuse color is white)

set camera background color to white

render with toon lines only and

test rendering with Final (no multipass) versus Final with multipass (with minimum # of passes you can get away with - like 3? if go above 4, then turn soften off) to see which way shorten's your render times (in your version)

[cribbidaj]

WOW! - I loved it!

 

Loved the render style, movement, music! well, well done!

 

The toon lines look great, and that is probably where the render hit comes from.

 

There are ways to do a "white render" that are lickety-split fast rendering, and even have a ground shadow, but the lines will still add time.

 

In general:

have ONLY 1 light klieg with z-buffered shadows (tweak the shadows darkness, softness to your liking)

have ground plane options set to front projected, flat shaded (in chor)

set your model option in chor to flat shaded only (not front projected, also assuming your model's surface diffuse color is white)

set camera background color to white

render with toon lines only and

test rendering with Final (no multipass) versus Final with multipass (with minimum # of passes you can get away with - like 3? if go above 4, then turn soften off) to see which way shorten's your render times (in your version)

 

Thanks, Nancy! Yes, your "White Render" posts on this forum are what I've used to inform my experiments with white rendering - thank you!

 

I hadn't thought of Toon Line Rendering while white rendering - will give it a shot. When White Rendering, I also had turned off all lights in the choreography and just used Global Ambience to light my scene. I didn't realize using other lighting would work - will give your "klieg" suggestion a shot.

 

Side note: I really admire your models. They have a very distinct and unique style that must be very personal to you.

[NancyGormezano]

Thanks, Nancy! Yes, your "White Render" posts on this forum are what I've used to inform my experiments with white rendering - thank you!

 

I hadn't thought of Toon Line Rendering while white rendering - will give it a shot. When White Rendering, I also had turned off all lights in the choreography and just used Global Ambience to light my scene. I didn't realize using other lighting would work - will give your "klieg" suggestion a shot.

 

Side note: I really admire your models. They have a very distinct and unique style that must be very personal to you.

Thanks Chris...I just do what I do...and don't try to recreate anyone else's look (normally), but will find inspiration, new ideas from everyone.

 

Hmmm... I am just now experimenting with flat shading, toon lines, front projection and global ambiance type/global color - in 18d/64 and things are not quite how I remember with respect to all this (something is funny). My brain is currently in a muddled state due to migrating to new computer...so take what I say with "caution" until further notice (uhh...which may be never).

 

I can get lines, I can get shadows, but I'm having a hard time getting both with flat shading (ie no gradient - this is different on my old machine last I looked)???

 

EDIT: If I change diffuse falloff of teapot surface to 0% then I get no gradient (again I'm not sure of all settings, this graphics card, 18d/64 works differently)

Edited April 22, 2014 by NancyGormezano

[cribbidaj]

Thanks, Nancy! Yes, your "White Render" posts on this forum are what I've used to inform my experiments with white rendering - thank you!

 

I hadn't thought of Toon Line Rendering while white rendering - will give it a shot. When White Rendering, I also had turned off all lights in the choreography and just used Global Ambience to light my scene. I didn't realize using other lighting would work - will give your "klieg" suggestion a shot.

 

Side note: I really admire your models. They have a very distinct and unique style that must be very personal to you.

Thanks Chris...I just do what I do...and don't try to recreate anyone else's look (normally), but will find inspiration, new ideas from everyone.

 

Hmmm... I am just now experimenting with flat shading, toon lines, front projection and global ambiance type/global color - in 18d/64 and things are not quite how I remember with respect to all this (something is funny). My brain is currently in a muddled state due to migrating to new computer...so take what I say with "caution" until further notice (uhh...which may be never).

 

I can get lines, I can get shadows, but I'm having a hard time getting both with flat shading (ie no gradient - this is different on my old machine last I looked)???

 

EDIT: If I change diffuse falloff of teapot surface to 0% then I get no gradient (again I'm not sure of all settings, this graphics card, 18d/64 works differently)

 

How do I select z-buffered shadows and tweak the level? Experimenting now - I really like the Global Ambience lighting without toon render when white rendering - very "claymation"-like! Would like to get the shadows a bit less soft, or at least more "present".

[NancyGormezano]

How do I select z-buffered shadows and tweak the level? Experimenting now - I really like the Global Ambience lighting without toon render when white rendering - very "claymation"-like! Would like to get the shadows a bit less soft, or at least more "present".

 

You can only have z buffered shadows option with kliegs lights

 

in the chor select the klieglight /options/cast shadows ON/change type to z buffered (should be the default) - tweak softness, darkness, etc

 

You can also have ray traced lights with kliegs (but don't render as fast)

 

But if you are thinking that white render = claymation look, then perhaps you are thinking that chor is rendered with Ambiance Intensity and ambiance occlusion ? It's the occlusion that will cause your render times to sky rocket (consider using SSAO instead). Using Ambiance intensity by itself has NO render hit.

Edited April 22, 2014 by NancyGormezano

[cribbidaj]

(consider using SSAO instead)

 

I'm using A:M 15j, so I don't believe SSAO is an option in that version. Also, using occlusion yields such killer results!

[fae_alba]

Chris,

 

that was a cool animation. As for rigging, my latest model (Papa Bear) has gone thru no less than five different rigging attempts. Each time I got better. Each time I learned not only better ways to apply a rig (the 2008 rig), but better spline layout, better approaches, and most importantly, how the character reacted to the rig (yes, Papa Bear has gained some life of his own, along with a personality that is struggling to get out!).

 

In short, rigging is a learning process, one that never ends. And as Robert said earlier, the true work begins with animating your character. One that I have only just begun to learn myself.

 

Keep at it, and happy animating!

[NancyGormezano]

I'm using A:M 15j, so I don't believe SSAO is an option in that version. Also, using occlusion yields such killer results!

 

Yes it looks terrific, if you can stomach the render times.

 

SSAO is monumentally faster (ver 18) - something that takes an hour with AO to render 1 frame, might take seconds, max 2-3 minutes with SSAO. Although it isn't quite the same, it looks terrific for my purposes.

[Simon Edmondson]

...

In my model, I created a group called "Head" and in the surface properties I set the line color to a "red" that I liked. Line Thickness for "Head" = 1, Toon Bias = 6. Another group I named "Body": color = red; Line Thickness = 1; Toon Bias = 3. A third group, "Teeth": color = red; Line Thickness = .85; Toon Bias = 20.

 

The reason I set the "Head" group at a different Toon Bias is because it is more complex in splines and cps and I experimented til I attained the look I wanted.

 

In Rendering options, I chose "Toon Render/Lines Only".

 

In the Choreography I've hidden the "Ground" and chosen "white" as the camera's background color.

 

Chris

Thank you very much for the info. Its a fun style.

regards

simon