3d animation services

[Roger]

So I've been thinking about doing something part-time for extra money and am considering doing 3d on the side.

I have most of the hardware and software for doing this already, so there is not a huge financial commitment required, just a commitment of time.

 

Is there still a market at the low end for this sort of thing? Or has the commoditization of 3d made this unprofitable? For instance, an independent videographer would be more likely to pick up AM and do their own stuff as opposed to paying someone else.

 

I can't really think of anything I could knock out very quickly other than the ubiquitous flying logos of yore. I just don't know there is a market for that sort of thing these days. I could probably use AM to do short character animation sequences but I honestly don't know what is realistic in terms of project length. I think trying to do more than 30 seconds is asking for trouble. 15 to 30 seconds is about right for public access type commericals, for instance.

 

My goal here is two-fold: make some extra money and also build my skills by stepping back a bit from my short film. I think not having a huge emotional investment in a specific project, combined with shorter projects, would let me get back up to speed without feeling like I'm digging out from under a mountain. What do you think?

[robcat2075]

I think to succeed at free-lance stuff you need to be a whiz who can crank stuff out almost before they can say "how long will it take?"

 

Our own Matt Campbell aka (John Bigboote) is a good example of that.

 

But in general I don't think there are many clients out there for low to modest level CG anymore. They are probably of a DIY mindset for stuff like titles and green screen and models of their product.

 

If they do need something and are willing to work over the internet there's a whole world of people out there ready to do it for almost nothing.

 

I looked at a site called elance where people bid on freelance projects and there were people from Vietnam bidding two or three dollars an hour to do stuff and probably did entirely adequate work.

[Simon Edmondson]

I think to succeed at free-lance stuff you need to be a whiz who can crank stuff out almost before they can say "how long will it take?"

 

Our own Matt Campbell aka (John Bigboote) is a good example of that.

 

But in general I don't think there are many clients out there for low to modest level CG anymore. They are probably of a DIY mindset for stuff like titles and green screen and models of their product.

 

If they do need something and are willing to work over the internet there's a whole world of people out there ready to do it for almost nothing.

 

I looked at a site called elance where people bid on freelance projects and there were people from Vietnam bidding two or three dollars an hour to do stuff and probably did entirely adequate work.

 

 

Robert

 

At the opposite end of the scale. A friend of mine who lives in the same village as me, got her dream job via Elance. She is illustrating a book for an ex diplomat and getting $29 an hour for doing so. He is agreed that it will take two years to do so as well.

However, she did say that it was mainly as you state, people willing to work for little for people expecting to pay little. She was lucky.

regards

simon

[Roger]

I think to succeed at free-lance stuff you need to be a whiz who can crank stuff out almost before they can say "how long will it take?"

 

Our own Matt Campbell aka (John Bigboote) is a good example of that.

 

But in general I don't think there are many clients out there for low to modest level CG anymore. They are probably of a DIY mindset for stuff like titles and green screen and models of their product.

 

If they do need something and are willing to work over the internet there's a whole world of people out there ready to do it for almost nothing.

 

I looked at a site called elance where people bid on freelance projects and there were people from Vietnam bidding two or three dollars an hour to do stuff and probably did entirely adequate work.

 

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Maybe it's worth doing some cold calling anyway, though.

[John Bigboote]

It's always worth the look... the job is actually 90% sales and 10% animation... and if you hired a sales rep you would find the pay breakdown would be along those same lines. The best people are those who can sell their work, so the better the samples/demo reel-the easier the sale. Animation is EVERYWHERE these days, and colleges are pumping out degreed animators at an unprecedented rate, so while there is LOTS of work, there are also LOTS and LOTS of talented people to do the work. I live and work in the very depressed Detroit area, so my views are biased- I hope there are greener pastures out there. Look at our own SpleenGene for a positive example, he hit the ground running and learned A:M fast and furious and now is animating music videos lucritively for Sony BMI.

 

Lately, I have been keeping up on A:M while learning another 3D application- which has set me WAY back. I've found my drive, my ability to learn and my eyes are not what they once were, and feel the days of my 'B' plan getting closer and closer. LUCK has a lot to do with this business, so good luck!

[largento]

The root of the problem is that the economic 1-2 punch of the Internet Bubble and Housing Recession has made companies and individuals only consider the cheap way out.

 

Like Robert pointed out, there are avenues where they can pay pennies on the tens of dollars to get the work done overseas.

 

Add to that services like Shutterstock where they can get illustrations, photography, video and motion graphics for a fraction of what it would cost for custom work, and it's almost impossible to make a living in these sectors.

 

I check Craigslist pretty regularly and people want everything for nothing. Where quality and experience used to matter above everything else, people are now okay with mediocrity. Almost every listing mentions how great an opportunity it would be for a student or someone just starting out and looking for things to add to their portfolio, which obviously means they want someone who will do it for free.

 

I expect it only to get worse because the generation coming up has been programmed since birth that if they can't afford to buy something, it's okay to steal it. They want everything to be free.

 

And I know from bitter experience that the jobs I've taken on the cheap are the worst clients ever to work for. They already don't value your skills and talent, so they'll ask for everything under the moon and a thousand changes. In contrast to the real clients who are paying top dollar and don't want to spend more money on frivolous changes.

[frosteternal]

So I've been thinking about doing something part-time for extra money and am considering doing 3d on the side.

I have most of the hardware and software for doing this already, so there is not a huge financial commitment required, just a commitment of time.

 

Is there still a market at the low end for this sort of thing? Or has the commoditization of 3d made this unprofitable? For instance, an independent videographer would be more likely to pick up AM and do their own stuff as opposed to paying someone else.

 

I can't really think of anything I could knock out very quickly other than the ubiquitous flying logos of yore. I just don't know there is a market for that sort of thing these days. I could probably use AM to do short character animation sequences but I honestly don't know what is realistic in terms of project length. I think trying to do more than 30 seconds is asking for trouble. 15 to 30 seconds is about right for public access type commericals, for instance.

 

My goal here is two-fold: make some extra money and also build my skills by stepping back a bit from my short film. I think not having a huge emotional investment in a specific project, combined with shorter projects, would let me get back up to speed without feeling like I'm digging out from under a mountain. What do you think?

You need to build up a portfolio. You could have all the experience inn the world but if you can't show some of your work, nobody will want to pay you. Also, I would HIGHLY recommend asking around and finding local work. A few have mentioned sites like eLance etc and as noted, you are competing with people in other countries who are pleased to work for pennies. But in your own locale, you have the advantage of face-to-face contact with clients and often no language barriers either.

Build a small but loyal customer base - ask them for referrals - this is all part of networking.

Also, be prepared to offer something more than just technical skill - often a client, even without asking, is seeking some fort of creative direction or ideation as well. Suggest ways to improve on concepts - even a simple logo animation can be improved in a multitude of ways. Be confident about your advice and ideas, but also know that you are within realistic restrictions such as your skill level, time available, and project budget.

Is there a low-end market for 3D and motion design? Absolutely - but there is an even bigger market for low-cost work that looks more expensive than it really is. =)

[robcat2075]

And I know from bitter experience that the jobs I've taken on the cheap are the worst clients ever to work for. They already don't value your skills and talent, so they'll ask for everything under the moon and a thousand changes. In contrast to the real clients who are paying top dollar and don't want to spend more money on frivolous changes.

 

My manager at my old job once made the observation that whenever he cut a new client a deal in the hopes attracting their future business, it never worked. They never came back.

[Roger]

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a few things "on spec", then shop them around to local businesses for advertising purposes.

I know few that might be receptive to something like that. Maybe I could offer a 15 to 30 second public access spot, along with finished clips to put on their website. Can't hurt, other than time spent if I can't sell the work. Even then, it would still be a portfolio piece.

[largento]

This is not meant to relate to what you are doing, Roger, but I think we've all encountered the "exposure" in lieu of payment offers.

 

I just read a series of correspondences that made me laugh. A guy was asking to use a cartoonist's cartoon in an article he was publishing on his website. The cartoonist responded that he had a standard licensing fee and that would be all that he would need to do to use it. The guy responded back saying he didn't have a budget for paying, but that he figured this would give great exposure for the cartoonist.

 

The cartoonist responded, saying he had a standard "exposure contract" that he could send him. Basically, they would agree on how much exposure he was going to get (defined by page views sent from the article in a set amount of time) and if the guy failed to deliver the promised exposure, then he would be in breach of contract and have to pay the pro-rated licensing fee. :-)

 

Now the guy starts back-pedaling, admitting that he can't promise those kind of numbers, basically exposing that he can't really offer much in the way of exposure for the cartoonist.

 

I loved it!

[robcat2075]

An "Exposure" contract. That's clever.

 

 

Roger, I think the idea of approaching public access program creators is a good one. That would be a fairly low-pressure way to experience working under someone else's vision.

 

I got my first real CG job because someone remembered working with me on a public service announcement. It took them about five years to remember me but I guess that was better than waiting 10 years.

[frosteternal]

...

Now the guy starts back-pedaling, admitting that he can't promise those kind of numbers, basically exposing that he can't really offer much in the way of exposure for the cartoonist.

 

I loved it!

I might use this

[frosteternal]

Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a few things "on spec", then shop them around to local businesses for advertising purposes.

I know few that might be receptive to something like that. Maybe I could offer a 15 to 30 second public access spot, along with finished clips to put on their website. Can't hurt, other than time spent if I can't sell the work. Even then, it would still be a portfolio piece.

Just beware of doing too much work for absolutely free. Better would be to approach the client, explain that you are looking to create clips to help them advertise, and you would like their feedback along the way. Treat them like a real client. Explain that they will get "free" design and animation services in exchange for helping you build a portfolio piece - but if they like what is finally created, they will have to pay a nominal licensing fee to use the project (assuming of course that they will love it.)

This is a nice compromise because you will benefit from the valuable experience of dealing with a client, and if they like what you create - all the better.

[Roger]

That's not a bad idea. What would you suggest as a "nominal" licensing fee?

[frosteternal]

That's not a bad idea. What would you suggest as a "nominal" licensing fee?

Depends on market and your own personal pricing. Just understand that as long as you stay in the same market, your rate will be some multiple of the initial fee. Don't low-ball too much.