giving Dex a brain

[oakchas]

Been a looong time since I've been here, folks...

 

And almost as long since I've messed with AM, sorry to say... I'm still in V14.0c

 

Okay that's established.

1. I've modeled a brain. Primitive really... but sufficient for my needs.
   
2. I've cut Dex's head off... sorry Dex, really... but I just needed your head.
   
3. I have saved my brain as "brain.mdl" clever that, no?
   
4. And I've saved Dex's head alone as "dexhead.mdl" (equally clever, I think)
   

Now... I've tried to import dexhead.mdl into brain.mdl. and positioned good ol' Dex's head around the brain, which seems to work just fine... Well, the brain doesn't work... Dex's just pretty.. no smarts, you see....

 

But aside from that, I'm trying to make Dex's head somewhat transparent... so that we can see his non-working brain... In model "port" that doesn't work so well... Using render lock, Dex kinda looks like he might have Leprosy... gets all spotty and bumpy looking... Like maybe the bump map of the brain is leaking into him...

 

Do I need to move both brain and Dexhead it to choreography and assemble there to make it work, or will Dex remain spotty? I think that's the correct answer (To move both parts to chor, and assemble there)... but what do I know? (what I did know about A:M, I forgot a few years back.)

 

Need a screen shot? I will provide... but it'll be after the holidays... give you plenty of time to mull answers... but I suspect you guys don't need much time to tell me where I'm wrong.

[robcat2075]

Welcome back to the forum!

 

Do I need to move both brain and Dexhead it to choreography and assemble there to make it work, or will Dex remain spotty?

 

Hmmm... how could we test that idea out...

 

Need a screen shot? I will provide... but it'll be after the holidays... give you plenty of time to mull answers... but I suspect you guys don't need much time to tell me where I'm wrong.

 

Yeah I think we'll need to see what you are seeing.

[oakchas]

Thanks Rob...

 

I remember you... And just like a nooob, I was looking for the instant answer...

 

Workin' on it... just frustrating, that's all... pull out the tech ref, the manuals... etc...

 

I'll work on it some more... and I can prolly fix it my ownself...

[mouseman]

and I can prolly fix it my ownself...

But also spending hours figuring out what others might be able to tell you in 10 minutes can't be beat. As Robcat alludes to, a picture is worth 1000 words.

[oakchas]

okay, here's the problem:

 

Screenshot 1: dex's head is "transparency not set"

Screenshot 2: Dex's head is "transparency 80%" And you can see his brain... the item in red is the Medulla Oblongata.

Screenshot 3: Dex's head is "transparency not set"

 

Artifacts of transparency on hair and on right side of neck when re-setting the transparency attribute to not set or to 0%.

 

 

I'm working in version 14.0c... and have downloaded and replaced my other version of 14.0c and it still does it...

 

now, I haven't rendered it to a file. and maybe that's all I need to do, and it would be okay in final render... but I don't know that, yet, until I try.

 

I'll work on that tomorrow.

[robcat2075]

now, I haven't rendered it to a file. and maybe that's all I need to do, and it would be okay in final render... but I don't know that, yet, until I try.

 

Hit Q or Shift-Q and right drag a bounding box on the screen to see a final render with current settings.

 

I suspect the artifacts are a real-time render thing only.

 

BTW there are some improvements in real-time transparency display coming in v17.

 

But definitely test a real render.

[oakchas]

Hit Q or Shift-Q and right drag a bounding box on the screen to see a final render with current settings.

 

I suspect the artifacts are a real-time render thing only.

 

BTW there are some improvements in real-time transparency display coming in v17.

 

But definitely test a real render.

 

I did the shift Q thing to get those real time renders.

 

(but at least I got rid of the blotchys on dex's face which seemed to be related to the bump map on the brain)

 

 

New Question:

Can I do transparency over time? while the head is revolving?

[oakchas]

Oh, and a quick render to file copied the artifacts rendered to sequence of jpgs.

[robcat2075]

New Question:

Can I do transparency over time? while the head is revolving?

 

If you enable "Show More than drivers" for the object in the chor you have access to a model's groups and you can animate their transparency settings in the chor.

[robcat2075]

Oh, and a quick render to file copied the artifacts rendered to sequence of jpgs.

 

And "Quality" setting when you rendered was "Final", yes?

[oakchas]

New Question:

Can I do transparency over time? while the head is revolving?

 

If you enable "Show More than drivers" for the object in the chor you have access to a model's groups and you can animate their transparency settings in the chor.

 

Great, and... the artifacts disappeared on tga file render... now I gotta see if I can revolve him and fade him out...

 

thanks SO VERY MUCH for your help...

 

Charlie

[oakchas]

and yes to final on the render... as jpg... but fixed as a tga.

[oakchas]

Dex keeps losing his normals. Well, some of 'em anyway.

 

In the modeling screen, I re-find the normals and everything looks good... and I save the model. In the render, he loses some of his normals again.

 

I have tried selecting the offending patches and flipping the normals and saving the model after everything looks right. Then in the render, I lose the normals again (on the same patches).

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Do I have to select the cache? Do I need to put the fixed model in a new chor? Can I replace the model without all he positioning and set up?

[robcat2075]

Dex keeps losing his normals. Well, some of 'em anyway.

 

In the modeling screen, I re-find the normals and everything looks good... and I save the model. In the render, he loses some of his normals again.

 

I have tried selecting the offending patches and flipping the normals and saving the model after everything looks right. Then in the render, I lose the normals again (on the same patches).

 

What am I doing wrong?

 

Do I have to select the cache? Do I need to put the fixed model in a new chor? Can I replace the model without all he positioning and set up?

 

Is this something you can send me the PRJ with the models?

[oakchas]

Is this something you can send me the PRJ with the models?

 

 

Sure, where?

[robcat2075]

Is this something you can send me the PRJ with the models?

 

 

Sure, where?

 

Do a Project>Embedd All and save under a new filename and zip it up with any needed bitmaps and send it to me: theguy (at) brilliantisland (dot) com

[oakchas]

sent... sorry 'bout the size , I included too many maps...

[oakchas]

BTW, you tube video here...

 

I don't really care for youtube... but I didn't make a .mov out of it...and the people I'm trying to show it to mostly don't have QT viewers (they're even more primitive than I am).

[robcat2075]

When you open your project and look in the

 

Objects>hairlessdexhdnbrain>Decals folder

 

are there any names besides the red and white star icons?

[oakchas]

No, but there are probably some I could eliminate.

[robcat2075]

No, but there are probably some I could eliminate.

I ask that because I tried loading the model. A:M asked me to refind every single image which is somewhat odd, but after all the loading was done none of them appeared on the model. the images were in the Images folder, but the place where the filenames would appear in the model all said "none"

 

Where is this Dex model from? Is it something I could find on a CD?

 

When you load the original, the version before you deleted all but the head, what appears next to the red and white star icons?

 

(There should be image names there)

[oakchas]

Dex is from the extras DVD.

I'LL have to check what loads with him on Monday.

 

Thanks for looking into this...

 

Of course, I deleted all the unused bones when I decapitated him also.

[oakchas]

When I open him from the Extras DVD, he loads fine... all the decals load without finding them... and there are names of files next to the red and white stars... there are a couple of normals apparently flipped at his armpits on first loading... refinding the normals solves the problem in shaded wireframe render. And they remain fixed in shift Q render in model mode.

 

adding him to chor., he comes out fine as well. Though, when I first tried to open a chor without the extras dvd in place, I did get an error message,... that an unnamed file was in an un named location... that was just to open a new chor. but as soon I put in the extras dvd, no such message. and was then able to move dex to the chor.

[robcat2075]

I don't have that CD so i can't test the original..

 

Something has seriously gone wrong in re-saving that because my decal containers are all coming up empty with no names..

 

Try this.

 

Load the original model.

Delete all the mesh that you don't need, leave the bones.

>plugins>wizards>Merge and Purge Decals

Resave the model with a new name in the original location.

Close A:M.Re-open A:M

load the new model. There should be vastly fewer images in the images folder.

 

Zip the model with just the images named in the images folder and send that to me.

[oakchas]

Okay... but, before I do that... I am now rendering as a TGA sequence... and everything appears normal??? I'll have to see when they all come out of the render...

 

Could just be an anomaly with my pc/graphics... I'm on a newer computer than is in my sig line... I'll let you know... and load the newer avi here.

[robcat2075]

Okay... but, before I do that... I am now rendering as a TGA sequence... and everything appears normal??? I'll have to see when they all come out of the render...

 

Could just be an anomaly with my pc/graphics... I'm on a newer computer than is in my sig line... I'll let you know... and load the newer avi here.

 

If it's rendering normally then no problem. real-time view is just an approximation and it can't do everything that Final renders do.. I thought you were having trouble with the final render.

[oakchas]

I was having trouble with final render... as shown in the you tube video above... patch behind (his) right ear

and now as a tga sequence, the head is not fading out... and back in...

 

I'm currently trying to render as a .mov file... and I'll see what that does...

 

sigh

[oakchas]

as a .mov file... final render... the head does not fade out...

 

I'm going to start over as you suggested here:

Load the original model.

Delete all the mesh that you don't need, leave the bones.

>plugins>wizards>Merge and Purge Decals

Resave the model with a new name in the original location.

Close A:M.Re-open A:M

load the new model. There should be vastly fewer images in the images folder.

 

Zip the model with just the images named in the images folder and send that to me.

[robcat2075]

make sure that the "whole flesh head" group is the last one in the model's list or it's transparency settings may not override previous groups'.

[CreativeAustinYankee]

This may be nothing, bu have you cleared your Hash registry file? Sometimes that gets a little messed.

 

Also, try updating your video driver files.

 

Just a thought.

 

Steve P.

[oakchas]

This may be nothing, bu have you cleared your Hash registry file? Sometimes that gets a little messed.

 

Also, try updating your video driver files.

 

Just a thought.

 

Steve P.

 

Okay, I've got the latest video drivers... now, how do I clear hash registry?

 

I'm doing a search on that, BTW

[NancyGormezano]

Okay, I've got the latest video drivers... now, how do I clear hash registry?

 

I'm doing a search on that, BTW

 

Video drivers have nothing to do with A:M FINAL rendering.

 

And I highly doubt that the registry does either. Even for version 14c. (I assume that's what you're using?)

 

 

I am willing to bet it is more likely your project settings and/or model (ordering of groups) is doing something funny. The other likely candidate is vers 14c didn't do transparency so well, or had a bug in it. In that case, there may be a work-around or you're outta luck. Upgrade.

 

You will definitely see a difference in resultant renders, especially with transparency, if you are comparing a final render, with an onscreen "render lock" in most every version of A:M (including 17).

Show us the group settings in your model, and your render settings. Post 1 still of the final render which has a problem.

[oakchas]

Thanks Nancy,

I'm working on redoing the model.

I'll probably end up upgrading, as well.

 

I'd forgotten the joys, and frustrations, of working with/playing in A: M.

 

My "muscle memory" of working in it is slow to return... Age, I guess!

[robcat2075]

(MOD NOTE: This post has been moved to align topics. Apologies for any confusion)

 

What isn't working for me is rendering a progressive transparency on a model in final render mode...

 

Progressive render is a shorthand, quick onscreen approximation of what a final render will look like but it can't do everything a final render does. For example, Toonlines will NOT appear in Progressive renders.

 

 

That said, when i re-ordered the groups in your head model the transparency effect was fading in and out as expected in onscreen progressive render. There's some conflict in your groups and decals, I don't think A:M is the core problem, but i also don't have v14 to test with.

[oakchas]

(MOD NOTE: This post has been moved to align topics. Apologies for any confusion)

 

What isn't working for me is rendering a progressive transparency on a model in final render mode...

 

Progressive render is a shorthand, quick onscreen approximation of what a final render will look like but it can't do everything a final render does. For example, Toonlines will NOT appear in Progressive renders.

 

 

That said, when i re-ordered the groups in your head model the transparency effect was fading in and out as expected in onscreen progressive render. There's some conflict in your groups and decals, I don't think A:M is the core problem, but i also don't have v14 to test with.

 

 

Robert,

 

I know what progressive render is... I am talking about progressive fading (in and out, of the outside head only-leaving the brain exposed) in FINAL render...

 

IOW, while at first, I was able to get the head to fade out leaving the brain visible... as illustrated by the you tube file... Now, I seem to be getting just a revolving head with no fade out in the FINAL movie/avi/whichever...

 

I'm working on the model, reworking it, that is. and hope that that solves my problems... and it probably will...

 

As I mentioned to Rodney, I'm just as impatient as a noob... and in this case I want a "make a revolving head" button instead of the still missing "make dragon" button...

 

Thanks for your help.. and please forgive any frustrations coming through in the written word... it's sometimes sooo hard to describe whats happening in a graphic program with w o r d s.

[robcat2075]

Here's a sample PRJ that shows the core concept working. The vase "Shell" fades away to reveal the "brain".

 

For me it works in real-time shaded mode, progressive renders and final renders.

 

See if it works in V14 for you.

 

FadingAway.prj

[Rodney]

This is to confirm that it works with no issues here in v17a Robert. Of course that should be no surprise.

 

My initial thought of the disappearing of the head was that it betrays that the head is an 'empty' model. We can see the back side of the head as if there was nothing in between the front and rear surfaces of the head. My immediate idea was to think that boolean cutters would make a nice approach but didn't want to deviate too far afield from the original idea. What I did do however is modify Robert's project to make his vase enclosed and then turn up the density of the surface of the skin group to 33%.

 

This is not meant to move you away from your current approach but it's something to at least store in the back of your mind.

It is also good to note that unlike with booleans the model doesn't have to be enclosed all the way for density to work well. In fact, having some areas disconnected can produce some pretty nice outlines.

 

The attached image shows a screen capture of a Render Lock Mode render with holes at the top of the vase (i.e. it isn't water-tight).

The project file doesn't have those disconnected splines. In the image you can see where the inner liner does not follow the contour of the outer liner.

FadingAway_Density.prj

[NancyGormezano]

I'm working on the model, reworking it, that is. and hope that that solves my problems... and it probably will...

 

Most definitely.

 

I have the dvd, and 14c and noticed:

 

The original Dex model off the dvd looks corrupted to me. It comes in with 2 groups both named head. That's a no-no. Not sure how that was even possible.

 

When I isolated just the neck/head area (deleted all other splines), resultant model looked weird, corrupted.

 

This would be the best place to start with fixing your model. I suspect A:M was getting it's widdle brain all confooosed when trying to make the head transparent.

[oakchas]

Thanks for going retro Nancy.

 

 

I see you're getting the same corruptions I am...

Didn't even notice that Dex was a two headed monster...

 

But, I'll get him fixed. For my purposes anyway.

 

When I get home tomorrow, I'll check the projects provided by Robert and Rodney.

 

Obviously, my sig line is still true, even after these intervening years.

 

Thanks, folks.

 

Charlie

[robcat2075]

Would "Merge and Purge Groups" fix the group problem?

[NancyGormezano]

Would "Merge and Purge Groups" fix the group problem?

 

No. This model is messed. It would probably require some mesh reworking, group properties reassignment, redecaling.

 

To test, and eliminate that it was decaled funny, I deleted all the decals, renamed the offending group to wholehead, & model appears to come in "fine", in 17a

 

When I set the group transparency of "wholehead" = 0%, just in the model window, patches that have hooks, turn white. These patches are also in the group flesh (located above wholehead) which has some color, and should not turn white. There are also patches in the hair that behave funny. If you try to set the transparency of wholehead back to unset, the patches still stay white.

 

HOWEVER, for a quick workaround, to avoid reworking of model, best bet would be to manipulate the transparency of the decaled Head MODEL surface property in the chor (not the group surface property), and have the brain be a separate model, that is constrained to the head (translate, orient like), that rotates with the head.

 

Here's the model without decals, tested in 17a. So at least we know it's not a problem with 14c. I suspect this is a really old model (done by Den Beauvais, and I think it was a model used in 1999 in the original Hash Animation Master printed reference guide).

DexNodecals.mdl

[oakchas]

R&R,

 

Both of your projects work in v14.0c... on an interesting note, when the view in the chor is set to shaded and wireframe, and scrolling/sweeping, or playing through the chor... various patches on the "brain" and/or "vase" will disappear.

This is not a final render nor render lock anomaly, only happened in shaded wireframe.

 

I certainly do appreciate everyone's involvement with my problem.. and that's what I came to you folks for... Now, I'm reworking stuff, and maybe I can resolve the problem in my old version...

 

 

All I needed was a little R&R, with a dash of Nancy.. . to recover my warrior spirit... Now, back to the trenches for me... and I hope to update soon.

[Rodney]

Glad to hear things are going smoothy.

 

Both of your projects work in v14.0c... on an interesting note, when the view in the chor is set to shaded and wireframe, and scrolling/sweeping, or playing through the chor... various patches on the "brain" and/or "vase" will disappear.

This is not a final render nor render lock anomaly, only happened in shaded wireframe.

 

This is a classic example of hardware related issues.

Classic fix: Update Graphic Cards Drivers

 

In the options panel you can also set limits related to the realtime playback (mostly for older systems/cards).

 

Newer versions of A:M take advantage of the capabilities of current graphics cards.

[oakchas]

Rodney,

 

already upgraded my graphics driver for the motherboard imbedded graphics on this system... I got what I got... no biggie... it does not, as has been pointed out, effect final render...

 

And, as my system and my extant graphics chips are not "current"... upgrading A:M would not help... If I can do this little animation successfully, and get some positive input... I will revisit the need for more power and current subscription...

[oakchas]

I have a sequence of targa files... I am trying to render them as a qt movie... I'm not having any luck...

I have files 00-144 as numbered, I have tired importing them into images in the PWS, that worked I right click on the first one and try to save it as an animation... one time it rendered the pics all again, and saved them to a folder, but made no movie out of it.

 

I am lost again.

 

Is it possible that it is doing it in the background? I don't think so Cpu usage is 0%

[Rodney]

I right click on the first one and try to save it as an animation... one time it rendered the pics all again, and saved them to a folder, but made no movie out of it.

 

You've got to specify the file type to output to.

As of some earlier version of A:M you can get the file type going just by typing in the extension (A:M therefore knows that you want that type so you don't have to set it in the options). The compression type (if any) you would have to set there however.

 

Make sure you use a filename of this type (assuming you want to 'save as animation' to a .mov file): mymovie.mov

 

Make sure you know where it is going to save the file also.

 

Troubleshooting tip: If A:M appears not to 'Save As Animation' for an entire sequence, the majority of the time users have accidentally imported only a single frame of the animation into the PWS. Make sure when importing you use the option to import the whole sequence. You can easily (visually) tell if you've imported a sequence by looking at the channel view next to the PWS. There you should see what looks like a movie strip.

[oakchas]

I'll try giving it the extension.. maybe that's all the impetus it needs...

 

 

Man, this is not easy peasy... but I'm getting it... slowly

[oakchas]

that worked.. uncompressed.. now trying a codec for compression... to reduce the 56 Mb file size

[oakchas]

well here's the result, still uploading to youtube... not gonna use any of Martin's bandwidth if I can help it... at least until I upgrade.

 

 

Still a long way to go... but I'm getting there...

 

Poor Dex... spent some time in the joint... got a couple of scars and some prison tats...

 

Shame that... he seemed like such a good kid...

[oakchas]

Okay, a few moments of free time... now, I've done a search... and found many laser "effects" a "beam" hits an abject and that object "blows up" but that's not what I'm looking for... I can make a skinny tube with glow... but that's not what I'm looking for either...

 

The effect I'm trying to re-create is a laser pointer... laser sight from a handgun, for instance... on dex's face...

 

I can follow that up with a tube with glow to show say, the path of a bullet based on the position of the gun and the laser dot on dex's face... But I can't figure out how to make the light so that it is like a teeny tiny spot light...

 

I have fill light key light and light available... I know A:M can make spot lights... why can't I find one and make it work... I'll do search some more.. and try to figure it out... whilst you guys lend a hand?

 

Never you mind... I found it... thank goodness for the tech ref..and a teeny flash of memory!