Scene test

[paradymx]

Always adding to the old portfolio, wanted to try at some "physical" comedy.

Hoping to get some crits and opinions from the first segment.

 

mirrors.mov

 

Here's what I see:

I can tighten the walk cycle a bit... it's slipping on the stride.

The transitions between poses might need some re-thinking.

Some of the holds...(mostly the ones toward the end) are a little off.

[robcat2075]

Walks are very hard to do.

 

On the walk...

 

- in general the cycle of the arms should lag the cycle of the legs a bit, meaning the arms reverse direction after the feet do.

 

- I think the distance he is covering with each stride is over-large for a casual walk around the room and the amount of arm swing is pretty big too.

 

-Hips and shoulders also rotate about their vertical axis as the legs and arms swing on them.

 

- in a lot of animated walls I think there's a tendency to have the body too far back when the rear foot leaves the ground

 

- Have you watched my videos on posing out walks?

 

- I think he's rebounding up too soon after each heel contact

 

-feet generally get slapped down in one or two frames after the heel contact.

 

- and yes, the foot sliding needs to be fixed.

 

 

 

-When he does the sudden stop, the classic thing to do is have the rear leg get pulled tight as if that were what was holding him back.

[paradymx]

Thanks for the response Robcat. Looking back...the over-all walk can be scaled back a bit. And thanks for the suggestion about the sudden stop too.

I've not seen your tut on walk poses. Thought I would find it on your page but it wasn't there. As of late I've been using the ol' trusty dusty animator's guide as my walk cycle template.

One thing I've always wondered about stride lengths.....How or where do you compensate for the time where there is not foward motion, the "lift" phase where you switch feet. I played around and "covered" it up in the past, but there is still foward movement during.

[Meowx]

Another suggestion - holds never completely stop the motion. Try the action yourself in the mirror - it's impossible to completely freeze yourself solid like that, and looks very, very unnatural. The actions will typically "follow through" on a hold - that is, the hand moves a bit farther back, the body sticks a bit further out, etc etc.

 

Here's a nice little video about holds from the Killer Bean guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpgMqebug6Q

[robcat2075]

my screencam tuts All my most beloved tutorials in one convenient location. Except for the ones I've forgotten about.

 

"Walks" is absolutely, 100%, positively there.

[nino banano]

Hi, paradymx... the test is looking good ...go ahead with it...

[robcat2075]

One thing I've always wondered about stride lengths.....How or where do you compensate for the time where there is not foward motion, the "lift" phase where you switch feet.

 

?

 

The body is always moving forward in a walk.

[paradymx]

My moving holds are in there....but I guess not enough...lol. I add a little more sway and I certainly see some parts where I can add more antsipation. That's why I love having you guys look at my stuff. Robcat: thanks for your tute(was looking under the wrong link)

The body is always moving forward in a walk.

 

Yes and no....... on a stride, when say the left foot is down and right foot is transitioning forward, the body is stationary if only for a moment. That's where the "illusion" of a foward push comes from. I've always found it difficult to find the sweet spot for that in a stride length. I sometimes get what I call " the ice skater" if I'm not careful. lol

[robcat2075]

There is no stationary moment. Look at the reference footage in my walk tuts. It never happens.

[paradymx]

Latest update to the overall scene.

It's coming along but i'm starting to get burned out on ideas. I know how it want to end it, but I need to figure out the last 10 seconds or so. At any rate:

 

mirrortest02.mov

 

crits and comments always welcome......

[HomeSlice]

That looks nice!

The holds seem too long. I get a little bored after awhile. I would make all of them no longer than 1/2 sec to 1 sec.

It also looks like all the bones are set to Zero Slope interpolation. That is good for blocking out the action, but when you are done blocking, I like to switch to "spline" interpolation most of the time.

 

You have to selectively change the interpolation on the keyframes that drive the feet. The keyframes that "plant" the feet should be zero slope. All other keyframes can be set to Spline.

 

The default interpolation for bones generally appears to be set to "spline", but when I look in my channel window, they are almost always actually "zero slope".

 

Make sure the *Default* interpolation for your bones is set to "Spline".

Open the channel window.

Select the "Bones" folder in your Model Shortcut's Chor Action.

Click in the Channel Window.

[CTRL A] to select everything.

Double click in the selection box. A dialog window will pop up. The field labeled "Interpolation" will usually say "Default".

Just hit the OK button without changing anything.

All the splines in the Channel window should adjust and look much more curvy now.

 

Find the keyframes that "plant" the feet.

Select those keyframes and switch them to Zero Slope.

[paradymx]

You have to selectively change the interpolation on the keyframes that drive the feet. The keyframes that "plant" the feet should be zero slope. All other keyframes can be set to Spline.

 

Find the keyframes that "plant" the feet.

Select those keyframes and switch them to Zero Slope.

 

Zero Slope huh?

 

I'll give it a whirl.

 

I tend to to use linear for my foot holds and plants. And use Zero slope and spline for certain motion depending on context. Or am I thinking of the wrong thing? Zero slope is the 0 quick key under the spline selection right?

[paradymx]

Okay, here's the "finale".

Tear this one apart guys.

I've done the slap reaction over from scratch more than 8 times now. I still doesn't look right to me. Something is off.

I feel good with the slap, but if you see anything shout it out. Thanks again guys!!!

 

mirrortest03.mov

[Rodney]

I've done the slap reaction over from scratch more than 8 times now. I still doesn't look right to me. Something is off.

 

The slap is communicated so I wouldn't spend too much more time there.

 

The issue I have is one of intitially understanding what is going on. Perhaps this will be fixed in post and if so... disregard the following.

As the scene opens we are looking at someone intently staring into a mirror-like object but there is no reflection.

Suddenly a reflection appears and slaps him.

He reacts accordingly.

 

All that works fine except that we have no frame of reference.

Is this a broken mirror that shouldn't be reflecting anything and another guy walks up from behind?

Is it really his reflection that reaches out and slaps him?

As the scene is setup now we don't know and will likely never find out.

We are just as confused as the guy who just got slapped.

 

Unless there are additional scenes adjoining this one my suggestion would be to strive for more clarity here.

I don't know enough about the scene to make further suggestions on this aspect.

If the mirror is missing and this is a second guy, I think moving the camera slightly to the right and having a prop (bushy plant or something appear in the mirror's frame) would convey/reveal the idea. Maybe even have the guy come around the mirror frame a little at the end.

If this is a mirror image that strikes out on his own then having the reflection missing in the first frames is confusing the eye.

 

Hope that makes sense.

I didn't spend much time analyzing your animation because it reads just fine.

[paradymx]

Sorry about that.......

 

This is a continuation from the first two. I just didn't FULLY render it with reflections. It was a quick SHADED render.

 

Its his OWN reflection striking out at him after bulling him a bit...lol

[paradymx]

Okay here's pretty much the final version, save for some minor tweaking. Almost a full render save for shadows, which will be added. Added facial expressions and adjusted some of the holds.

 

Would like to know if the "transition" (where the reflection becomes the model) is too harsh. Its like a sore thumb to me....but i put it together so....

 

mirrorfulltest.mov

 

C&C always welcome.

[robcat2075]

The thing that's most not-clear is when the reflection comes to life. I know you're keeping the camera far away so we can see the guy after he gets hit but it may be too far away for everything else.

 

His feet are sliding on the walk. That may be a stylistic choice but I wouldn't do it.

[NancyGormezano]

C&C always welcome.

 

I noticed the foot sliding as well, was a bit distracting. But rest of the animation is quite good. Some parts might go too long

 

As for the transition when he gets punched - I feel like it happens without enough setup, anticipation right before.

 

Perhaps the main character could lean into the mirror (& hold) while mirror guy (MG) doesn't follow the lean in, but reacts differently, eventually with a startle perhaps?, then MG pulls back arm, (or some other anticipatory pose/action with hold), and then does the quick punch. Or something like that.

 

Neat idea for animation!

[mouseman]

Hi, Paradymx,

 

I really enjoyed your short test. I tried to do a video critique, because the ones I've seen done (especially by Robcat or eCritique prizes on 11secondclub) are so very effective. It was a bit big for putting on the forum. You can see it here (108MB AVI w/ Sorenson compression which I think will play on a Mac).

 

I made a couple of attempts, playing with compression and other options. Some of the earlier attempts I made had better comments in places, but hopefully this is representative.

 

As always, these are only suggestions, the final decisions are YOURS!

 

For those who care ... I used the free CamStudio app to do the screen capture video, and for drawing on the screen I used ZoomIt by SysInternals (now part of Microsoft).

[Rodney]

Hey... thanks for that link to Zoomit Mr. Mouseman. I hadn't seen that!

Even more happy to see the potential of Microsoft giving this capability to all Windows users.

In the meantime... a very useful utility!

[paradymx]

Thank you guys so much for your comments.

 

The foot sliding will be corrected. I originally moved on from that issue cause it was driving me crazy.

 

Mouseman- Thank you very much for taking the time to make that video. Having that "play by play" does give a very effective view of what you see(or don't see) in the work. The slap reaction was taxing. I think what you mentioned about the way he "catches" himself is probably what I'm seeing that just doesn't look right.

 

Nancy- I see what you mean about anticipation before the slap with some realization to the character and the audience that SOMETHING is not right, which was a valid idea put forth by Mouseman as well.

It works without it.... but it works better with it!

[paradymx]

Trying to finish this one off for the final DVD.

 

Here's the latest:

 

C & C always welcome

 

The_Mirror_web.mov

[mouseman]

Some really nice improvements! I really like how there were some ideas where you found a better way of improving the problem that was pointed out than what people suggested! It looks really good!