Ponytail/ Dreadlock question....

[Ravager]

I was just wondering if anyone could help me figure out how to make part of a model act like a dreadlock or ponytail compared to the rest of the model, for example, if one wanted to make a ponytail with patches instead of using the hair feature, how would they make it so that whenever the head of the model moved, the 'patched ponytail' would move automatically with the head as if it were actual hair, and needed no manual tweaking of the bones within the 'ponytail' every couple of frames?

I'm sorry, but is the best way for me to put it.

I could show you an example of what I want, I want the dreadlocks on my Predator model to move in relation to the head in a hair like matter on its own, because I am quite tired of having to animate every single dreadlock every five or so frames.

 

[MasterFunk]

You can use a dynamic constraint and that will work perfectly

[Ravager]

ok, I'm sorry, but could you show me an example of how to use that in this situation?

[robcat2075]

there's a tech talk on how to use dynamic constraints

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=256025

 

 

Just do one dreadlock first to find the right settings (there's a lot of trial and error to this) then when it looks right do the same thing to the others.

[Ravager]

there's a tech talk on how to use dynamic constraints

 

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?s=&am...st&p=256025

 

 

Just do one dreadlock first to find the right settings (there's a lot of trial and error to this) then when it looks right do the same thing to the others.

 

Thanks! But one more question.... how do I make it so that the 'dreadlocks' don't go into the body? Because when I turn on object collisions, they go EVERYWHERE. Thanks again!

[HomeSlice]

Try simulating spring systems from front view, instead of from camera view or from a side view. If that doesn't help, you make have to separate the dreadlocks more in the model window to give the collision detection time to figure everything out when in the chor.

Here's another tut on dynamic constraints.

http://www.hash.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29914

[robcat2075]

Thanks! But one more question.... how do I make it so that the 'dreadlocks' don't go into the body? Because when I turn on object collisions, they go EVERYWHERE. Thanks again!

 

Possibly it wwould help to start/model them in an outward position so they fall into place and are not starting n contact with anything, which seems to be a big no for cloth simulations.

[Ravager]

yeah, i've been trying what you guys said... and it still isn't working

[robcat2075]

those chains are so close together in the pic you've posted, they're very likely to get confused on collision.

 

Show a picture of how you have them separated now.

[Ravager]

(I only did one dreadlock as experiment....)

(Drag: 10%)

(Collision Radius: .1")

(Bounce: 50%)

(Friction: 50%)

 

 

It was good on Spring, but the dreadlock still jumps a bit throughout the process if it was moved more quickly than slowly, as if it were 'hiccuping' along the way.

 

If I used Constraint, it would just float in the same position as it were in the model window.....

[robcat2075]

I'd try turning Bounce way down and maybe collision radius up a bit.

[Ravager]

Man... I did bounce at 0-10% and turned the radius up to .5'', and it went crazy! I tried bounce at 0, nothing happened. I tried .2'' for collision, same thing as .1''...

[robcat2075]

Here's a test with one dreadlock on a simple head.

 

dreadtest.mov

 

 

I couldn't get it to "simulate on the fly" but the baking in sim did work.

 

I had to do that from the front view for the collision detection to work. Simming in the cam view had pass thrus.

 

This is in V13.

 

I don't know how my model or settings differ from yours, but you can look at it to see.

 

Dreadlock.zip

[Ravager]

Yeah, mine just doesn't seem to want to work with me... could you give me your E-mail (Robcat) so I could send the model to you? Maybe you can find the problem because I haven't the faintest clue....

[Ravager]

Robcat?

[robcat2075]

Sorry, didnt' catch your previous post. Right now, I'm already tasked 100% trying to fix TWO scenes.

 

 

However...

 

Does my sample work on your computer?

 

If it seems to not work then maybe you are doing the simulation wrong.

 

If it doeswork , I'd try transferring that one chain to your head as a test.

 

If it stops working between my sample and your head then you know you made some change. A/B comparisons are all I know to find out the problem. No, it isn't quick.

 

If it does work on your head, then I'd look to see what is different between my chain and your chain.

 

 

Or... try duplicating my simple test case from scratch on your computer. Does it work or not? If my sample worked for you but your duplication doesn't then that means your' skipping something.

 

Let me know what you find out.

[Ravager]

Yeah, I do not know why but your dreadhead won't work on my computer, should simulate on the fly be on? Because it is off.... and nothing happens. But if i do put on simulate on the fly it seems to relatively work...

[robcat2075]

When you load Dreadtest_NotYetSimmed and go to the front view (keypad 2) and then right-click>Simulate Spring Systems... absolutely nothing happens?

[Ravager]

Whoops... my bad.

However, I did the same thing to the pred model, copied the settings for the dreadlocks as your sample, and the dreadlocks are still jumpy....

[robcat2075]

Whoops... my bad.

However, I did the same thing to the pred model, copied the settings for the dreadlocks as your sample, and the dreadlocks are still jumpy....

 

next, did you try my other suggestion:

 

Or... try duplicating my simple test case from scratch on your computer. Does it work or not? If my sample worked for you but your duplication doesn't then that means your' skipping something.

[Ravager]

My duplication did work.... and well, I do not know what to do.

I have managed to reduce the jitter a bit, but if the head moves then it goes crazy.

Another problem is that when I Simulate Spring Systems, the face gets crunched up like it had to fit in a small box.....

[robcat2075]

My duplication did work.... and well, I do not know what to do.

 

I have managed to reduce the jitter a bit, but if the head moves then it goes crazy.

 

on the duplication or your original head? I can't tell which one you mean is not working.

 

 

Another problem is that when I Simulate Spring Systems, the face gets crunched up like it had to fit in a small box.....

only when you simulate or also just play without simulating.

 

I'm pretty sure the simulating isn't making anything shrink

[Ravager]

Yeah, it doesn't shrink anything, it just throws the bones in the mandibles of the face everywhere.

And, by duplication, I meant from scratch, and of course it wasn't the exact thing, and the results weren't exact either, but they were extremely close.

Also, by the head I mean by the Predator head.

[robcat2075]

unless you have dynamic constraints on other face bones, simulating dynamics shouldn't have any effect on them.

 

make sure the origin of the first bone in your chain isn't right on the surface of the head. It should be a little bit off.

[robcat2075]

Did you get this one working?

[Ravager]

No, not yet, and not exactly.

Here, let's see if this says anything... it only shows a few dreadlocks doing the steps you told me.

For now, I modified the bounce to 25%, the friction to 75%, and the collision radius to 0.01" I will post another test that is set to your setting.

PS: Is there a way to take down the jitter in the dreadlocks, and to keep the face from going crazy? (Ex, mandibles pop out of the mask on the second test)

 

(My Setting)

Pred_Dread.mov

 

 

(Your Setting)

Pred_Problems.mov

 

Maybe this can give you some ideas of what I am working with.

(Sorry about the size, right-click and save as, please)

[robcat2075]

Tip... don't use the "animation" codec. that's why it's taking up 20 megabytes for just one second of animation. That one second should take up maybe 300K at most. Also, don't render at 1600x1200 for tests like these, there's no computer that can play that smoothly.

 

 

I don't see the face going crazy. What do you mean by that?

[Ravager]

What would you suggest as the render setting, then?

And also what I mean by the face going crazy; there are things poking out of the surface of the helmet that are skin colored, and that shouldn't happen.

I will re-post the videos at a different size/ ratio when you tell me a good render setting.

Thanks, and sorry for those mistakes.

[robcat2075]

You dont' need to repost them, I've got them now.

 

But Sorenson3 or Mpeg4 are good choices for small file size. and 640x480 is more than big enough for most tests.

 

ok, i see a little bit of flickering on the face. I'm not sure why simulating the dread locks would be the cause of that. Hide the face and see what part of the body is moving around.

[Ravager]

Hide the face? Or do you mean the helmet? Sorry, I just need to clarify. (The actual face is a real mess without the helmet.)

And by hiding the face, do you mean show only the body so that the face is gone? I didn't modify any other parts of the body to have such a reaction (such as, a simulation).

[robcat2075]

Hide the face? Or do you mean the helmet? Sorry, I just need to clarify. (The actual face is a real mess without the helmet.)

And by hiding the face, do you mean show only the body so that the face is gone? I didn't modify any other parts of the body to have such a reaction (such as, a simulation).

 

well, you have something that you don't want anything poking thru... hide that something so you can see what is moving underneath it, if anything.

[Ravager]

Alright, here's what I got (Without the helmet):

 

(Animation WITHOUT Simulate Spring Systems and Dynamic Constraints)

without.mov

 

 

(Animation WITH Simulate Spring Systems and Dynamic Constraints)

with.mov

 

 

HTH

(Hope This Helps)

[Ravager]

Rob?

[Rodney]

May I offer an alternative solution?

While it could be made to work with Dynamic Simulations there are several different ways to approach this (or perhaps enhance and better control the Dynamic Simulation?).

 

As far as I can tell, there are two solutions you are chasing:

1- Ease in animating the dreadlocks.

2- Limiting Passthroughs

 

The easiest way I can think of attacking both is to constrain the bones of the ponytail to a Null via the Aim at constraint. The top bone might not be constrained at all and each bone would gain 5 percent or more until at the tip you have the Ease set to 100%.

Then wherever that Null goes... so goes the dreadlock.

(Note: If you don't want to constrain each dreadlock separately perhaps the dreadlocks could be added in as Action Objects)

 

This in and of itself isn't a solution as much as it is an approach.

The dreadlocks need to be able to point at the Null which is in turn controlled by something else.

 

My initial thought for a Controller is to have each Null constrained to a path found on the model itself; an extra spline around the Preditors neck that goes where the character goes. Each Null is constrained via Path Constraint at its appropriate place on the control spline. First Null=0 percent, second=10 percent etc etc. For even more control the Target Nulls might be constrained to another Null that moves along the spline.

 

What does this do?

Firstly and foremostly it provides a means to prevent passthroughs.

Secondly it provides automated animation/movement of the dreadlocks.

Thirdly it allows you in cases where needed to animate each dreadlock separately via the Target Nulls.

 

Of course the Controller Spline itself can be animated as needed (via Pose Slider or Action) to animate all or several dreadlocks at the same time.

 

I'm testing out the possibilities at the moment.

Not sure I've got a good solution but so far so good.

[Rodney]

Here is a test of the principle.

In the image you can see half of the Nulls have been contrained to the Path.

The other half you can see still at the ends of the dreadlocks.

 

The test consists of one dreadlock model dropped into a Chor ten times.

Then each Dreadlocks Null is Path constrained to the spline below with Eases set in ranges of about 10 percent each across the spline.

dreadlock.mov

[Rodney]

To make animating even easier only one Master Null could be constrained to the spline and all the Nulls would have their relative translates/orientation based on its location on the spline.

 

Then you'd just animate the Master Null or the Controller Spline.

[Ravager]

Sounds great! But, um, could you post a tutorial of how to do that? And what I am getting here is, you create a bunch of nulls, one for each dred, to animate each one, and then you create an extra null to control all of the nodes, am I right? Sorry for the late response....

[Rodney]

But, um, could you post a tutorial of how to do that?

 

Sorry, I can't at the moment.

Its pretty straightforward though.