Slow playback in Choreography mode

[Geophizz]

I'm working on an entry for the 11 Second Club, which has three Squetchy Sam characters in it, plus a couple of stationary props. My problem is that the choreography is playing back so slowly that I can't get any sense of the motion or the timing without rendering out a quicktime every half hour or so.

 

I've got relatively big iron hardware (3.0ghz P4 HT, 2GB RAM, 80gb HD running WinXP and AM14), and I usually I can get 30fps with an older rig, like the Knight or Shaggy. I know that the squetchy rig is more complex, but does it really slow things down that much? I've got version 15 on my dual core Mac, but I can't even run this choreography at all on that machine because its not even managing 1fps.

 

More importantly, does anyone have any tricks to speed up the playback in the choreography window? I've tried turing down the details, going to wireframe, shringing the choreography window size, all to no avail. The best that I can get is about 2fps. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Mark

[thefreshestever]

hmm, don´t have that problem with squetch-rigged characters, so it´s not the rig i´d say... i would guess i get about 20 fps with shadedwireframe at lowest detail, wireframe only i´d say nearly 30 fps... but i only can say this about a chor with only one character and some props... did you try to save the chor and import it to a new project? i do this sometimes when strange things happen i can´t explain and i remember a few times it actually helped...

[robcat2075]

2fps sounds very slow. Something-is-wrong slow.

 

On the other hand, three characters plus props is quite a load. Squetchy sam has more patches than knight or Shaggy.

 

 

speed up options:

 

-turn off show decals

-"page down" to lowest subdivision level

-temporarily hide objects/characters you don't need to watch. (Eye icon in PWS)

-change an object's draw mode from curved to vector or even to bounding box (a drop down list right of the charcter's name in the PWS). I switch to bounding box mode often to see smooth motion.

 

(keyboard "7" enables "default" display mode that allows each object to show the specific draw mode and render mode that you have selected in the PWS.)

 

-in the model window hide geometry you don't need to see. Sometimes I'll hide everything but the lips whenI'm trying to fix lipsynch.

 

-swap in a lower res- proxy. Before you do change PWS listing to read "[model name]" rather than "Shortcut to [model name]". Then go to the properties window to change the model refernce to a proxy.

 

-switch out of skeleton mode and hit return to unselect all objects while you are watching the animation play

 

 

 

in the past some rotoscopes or image sequences could cause a serious slowdown. I dont' know if that is still true.

[rusty]

The biggest slow down of all is if you have other windows (model windows, action windows... any) open in the background.

 

r

[KenH]

Use Opengl.

[Geophizz]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've tried them all, without much luck until I turned off the two models that I wasn't actively working on. I put the one that I was working on in wireframe bounding box mode at the lowest possible resolution, with back facing poly's off. With that I was able to consistently get 8-9 fps. Ken I looked to switch to OpenGL, but I was already there, so I switched to DirectX (Yuck). That gave me an extra 3-4 fps, so al in all, I'm up to 12-14fps.

 

I even tried setting threads in the preferences, but thn all I got was a rig moving independently of the rest of the model at about 7 fps.

 

Looking at the wireframes, I noticed that the Sam models have very high patch counts compared to the other models that I've used, plus, even if I have a camera view with only one model in the shot, it is still affected by the other models in the choreography.

 

Here's the WIP, so that you can see the simplicity of the first shot and the complexity of the second: http://www.vimeo.com/1071050

 

Mark

[robcat2075]

It looks like Sam even has anatomically correct teeth. Lotta patches there.

 

If I were gong to use sam a lot I'd start looking for ways to make a thin proxy.

 

Another thing you might consider is animating at 24fps instead of 30. you won't get any more fps but the percentage of dropped frames will be less. And most animation is done at 24 fps anyway.

 

Also... a P4... it's probably working pretty hard to get what your getting.

[Geophizz]

Also... a P4... it's probably working pretty hard to get what your getting.

 

Actually my P4 is significantly faster than my Core Duo at most things, because unless the software can take advantage of the multiple cores, you are essentially running them on a P3.

 

Agreed about Sam and the patches. The extra control over the facial expressions are nice though.

 

Mark

[Rodney]

I haven't seen this one mentioned yet so will offer it. Martin Hash was the first to identify the issue here in the forum

 

Hide your Channel Window if you aren't using it (thats the timeline-like area/dopeheet to the right of your Project Workspace for those that don't know). A:M reportedly can be slowed down considerably as it has to update if its in view.

 

The memory hit should be more if animating or modeling but might slow playback down as well.

[Geophizz]

I haven't seen this one mentioned yet so will offer it. Martin Hash was the first to identify the issue here in the forum

 

Hide your Channel Window if you aren't using it (thats the timeline-like area/dopeheet to the right of your Project Workspace for those that don't know). A:M reportedly can be slowed down considerably as it has to update if its in view.

 

The memory hit should be more if animating or modeling but might slow playback down as well.

 

I'd done a similar thing, by going into choreography mode and deselecting all so there were no tracks in the timeline, it was the only way that I could even get the paltry fps that I got. I just tried to run it with the window closed completely, and there was no effect on the playback.

 

The best results that I've gotten come from turning off all of the models in the chor except the one that I'm working with. That way I can get about 14fps on the PC and about 10 on the Mac. It also appears that there is no difference between using low detail shading or wireframe.

 

Mark

[robcat2075]

When the Timeline or PWS timeline window has to scroll itself that will definitely slow down playback.

 

And channel view will slow down more than keyframe view. (more curvy lines to draw)

[Rodney]

Just to be clear as there is often confusion between the Timeline and Channel Editor (apologies if I have it wrong!)...

 

In the attached image the Timeline is turned off entirely.

The Channel Editor to the right of the Project Workspace (PWS) cannot be turned off. It can only be hidden.

If it is showing --even a sliver-- A:M reads... updates... maintains... the Channel Editor data which requires computation/processing.

The only way to tell A:M to free that up is to hide the Channel Editor window.

 

During TWO production the idea of discontinuing the Channel Editor was considered as the Timeline can provide this functionality.

As I recall the decision was that the Channel Editor is too essential a feature to users to abandoned but... consider why discontinuing it was considered! Most of us don't think about hiding the Channel Editor. We just use what is there.

 

Note that I cannot recall whether Hash Inc made changes to the Channel Editor based on this finding. They may have.

 

(all this for what its worth and for further clarification of my suggestion)

[robcat2075]

I call the right pane of the PWS a "timeline". Easily confused with the window that is called the "Timeline"

 

They both exhibit timeline-like behavior and both can be toggled to show either red dot keyframes or channel curves. There don't seem to be clear terms for these however.

 

on my computer I find that if either the PWS timeline or the "Timeline" has to scroll as time advances you get a slowdown. You can Shift-Z the timeline to eliminate the need to scroll.

 

Channel curve view of more than one bone seems to have a penalty even if it doesn't have to scroll.

[Geophizz]

Just to be clear as there is often confusion between the Timeline and Channel Editor (apologies if I have it wrong!)...

 

In the attached image the Timeline is turned off entirely.

The Channel Editor to the right of the Project Workspace (PWS) cannot be turned off. It can only be hidden.

If it is showing --even a sliver-- A:M reads... updates... maintains... the Channel Editor data which requires computation/processing.

The only way to tell A:M to free that up is to hide the Channel Editor window.

 

During TWO production the idea of discontinuing the Channel Editor was considered as the Timeline can provide this functionality.

As I recall the decision was that the Channel Editor is too essential a feature to users to abandoned but... consider why discontinuing it was considered! Most of us don't think about hiding the Channel Editor. We just use what is there.

 

Note that I cannot recall whether Hash Inc made changes to the Channel Editor based on this finding. They may have.

 

(all this for what its worth and for further clarification of my suggestion)

 

 

Are you saying that if I hide the project workspace from the view menu it won't turn off the channel editor? If so that would account for the lack of change in the fps.

 

I never thought about hiding it, even though I knew that it caused slowdowns. Going into choreography mode instead of skeletal mode and deselecting all usually did the trick for me, but not in this case. I usually use the project workspace with the channel editor showing across the bottom of the screen. I usually have the timeline turned off altogether because with the channel editor I find it redundant.

 

I think that Hash may have done some work on it because I loaded an old project in v15 that I had trouble with v13/14, and I can consistently get 20-30 fps (and at one point got 40!) from it now. In V13/14 I could only manage 10.

[robcat2075]

Are you saying that if I hide the project workspace from the view menu it won't turn off the channel editor? If so that would account for the lack of change in the fps.

 

The slow down these windows cause is due to them needing to be drawn and redrawn. When the cursor reaches the right edge the whole window needs to be shifted (redrawn) to the left to continue tracking the cursor.

 

That redrawing takes time. If you've closed the PWS and closed the "Timeline" then those are not being redrawn anymore and are not what is slowing you down.

[Rodney]

What Robert said.

 

As I recall you (Robert) were one of the champions, if not the primary champion, of keeping the PWS timeline (what I call the Channel Editor).

 

I've grown more use to using the Timeline these days but there are times when I find I prefer to use the PWS timeline almost exclusively. I'm not sure I favor one over the other... I like to use them both.

 

I've yet to really get set up again after my recent move but hope to be there soon.

Its been entirely too long since I've worked on any project short of small tests in A:M.

 

Little things like optimizing windows/screens for better playback can make a big difference in workflow so I'm enjoying the discussion.

[Geophizz]

What Robert said.

 

As I recall you (Robert) were one of the champions, if not the primary champion, of keeping the PWS timeline (what I call the Channel Editor).

 

I've grown more use to using the Timeline these days but there are times when I find I prefer to use the PWS timeline almost exclusively. I'm not sure I favor one over the other... I like to use them both.

 

I've yet to really get set up again after my recent move but hope to be there soon.

Its been entirely too long since I've worked on any project short of small tests in A:M.

 

Little things like optimizing windows/screens for better playback can make a big difference in workflow so I'm enjoying the discussion.

 

As far as I can tell, the PWS and the Timeline are nearly identical, with the PWS being a bit more powerful because it can almost do all the functions of the property window too. Is there something unique about the timeline that I'm missing?

[KenH]

I think one reason it's there is for screen real estate functionality. If you have the timeline beside the PWS open, then you don't have much room for the window to animate in. Having a separate timeline allows you to open the PWS at the side and the timeline window at the bottom.

[robcat2075]

As far as I can tell, the PWS and the Timeline are nearly identical, with the PWS being a bit more powerful because it can almost do all the functions of the property window too. Is there something unique about the timeline that I'm missing?

 

They do quite a bit the same thing, however, the PWS shows all items you have revealed by expanding their folder.

 

The "Timeline" only shows what you have clicked on and selected. This is useful when you want to work with a few bones that are not near each other on the PWS. For example "left hand", "right hand" and "torso" might have many bones between them inthe PWS, but if you shift-select them they will show up in the Timeline without other distractions and making it easy to see the relative position of keyframes they have. Hit the Tack button and they will stay in the TImeline even if you should temporarily select some other bone.

 

Timeline can even selectively show the x.rotate channel from one bone and the z.translate from another. Yes, I've actually had a reason to do that once.

 

 

 

I'll repeat something I've said before... the PWS needs lots of space to be useful. Scrolling around a PWS the only gets a sliver of the screen just about hopeless. getting a second monitor to put the PWS on was the single most productivity enhancing thing I ever got for A:M.

 

Used monitors are cheap these days. Graphics cards that drive two monitors are cheap too. Even some laptops can drive an extra screen now.

 

If you absolutely can't get a second monitor, undock PWS, stretch it to full screen and use the keyboard shortcut to toggle it on and off when you need it.