returning user could use some advice

[apophispro]

Hi folks!

 

It's been a while. I own version 10 of A:M and I bought it back around the time it came out. It was when I was just starting to get into animation, and I didn't really understand anything I was doing. I still don't understand much that I'm doing, but the difference is I understand that I don't understand it.

 

A while after getting into A:M I tried a bunch of other programs. Around last August I switched to Maya and have been using it since. I've drifted from doing modeling (which drives me insane) to effects work (which is pretty cool), but the reason I originally got into this field was to do character animation. I'm starting to return to that now.

 

I'm now at the point where I'd put myself as an advanced beginner or low intermediate level with Maya. I know my way around, and how the program works in all the areas. I've done some cool stuff, but nothing amazing. So now I'm at sort of a crossroads as far as programs go. I'm 18 and I'm going to be double majoring in character animation and acting next year in college with a goal of animating for Pixar.

 

I could stay with Maya and do all of my work with that, or I could come back to Animation Master. I do remember loving this program, but I've got some concerns. The first is since I'm looking to get into the industry am I better off staying with the industry standard program, and would it all impede my chances of getting work in the industry using Animation Master? What will it look like to a potential employer on a demo reel?

 

My second concern is what would my learning curve be since I have forgotten what I knew about the program? I don't really want to waste much time in learning another program as just launching into what I want to do.

 

My third question is how much of a difference will it make for me? Am I really going to be better off using Animation Master than Maya? Would it actually allow me to work faster, or have other added advantages? Basically is it worth it for me? I know this is more of a personal question, and hard for someone else to answer.

 

The second two questions would preferentially be answered by someone else who uses or has used Maya (and got to an intermediate state with it). Also I know we all love the program here, but please don't post answers that basically just say this program is awesome. The three aforementioned questions are my primary concerns as opposed to the awesomeness level of the program.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

-apophis

[C-grid]

I may not be the right person to advise you...

 

I think Walt Disney had already Masters that have the ability to give life through a pencil.(Of course making funny story-(elements) is a different discipline) They did hired apprentices for tweeners and some of them became Masters themselves.

 

I think the guys at Pixar do something similar, they don't really care how you learned to draw, but can you now? If you show them you're a magician they eventually will ask you to use 'their' choice of magicbox.

 

Nowadays it maybe wise to have different skills.

 

Niels

[Tralfaz]

Hi Apophis:

 

I guess my answer is going to be pretty simple (sort of) as I have never used Maya. I have used other freeware software modelling and animation programs. A:M is my first commercial modelling and animation program.

 

When you get to College, what software will they be using in the course you will be taking? Or is it mainly theory that is software independent?

 

If your course is catering to Maya, then I would say stick to Maya. If the course is catering to Animation Master, then I would go with A:M.

 

If your course is software independent, then I would say go with whichever software you are most comfortable with. I would think that your time would be better spent learning the character animation aspect of your course, then having to try and learn the software at the same time.

 

As for employers, I don't think they would really care too much about which software you used to create a demo reel. They will be looking more at the animation quality and talent of the individual. You can always learn a new software package. Your future employer may not even use Maya.

 

That being said, there are some pretty smart folks around here who can answer just about any question you may have about A:M should you decide to go that route. The decision is ultimately yours.

 

I hope this has helped a bit.

 

Best of luck in your future endeavours...

Al

 

P.S. The A:M is awesome!!

[Dhar]

Maya would be the program of choice at Pixar. Animation Master is the program of choice of independant animators and amatures. My advice is to go ahead and keep with Animation Master along with whatever it is they'll teach you in college. You'll have an advantage of knowing more than one program, plus the fact that you'll be able to do your own independant work out of class which will definitely enhance your animation skills.

 

Knowledge = Power.

[John Bigboote]

I've got to go against the grain on this one. Stick with Maya. You proved you can learn it, so keep at it! Most of us are here in A:M-ville because we can't learn that shit. A:M does have ease of use and a better learning curve, some advanced features and a great user-group...but Pixar will ask what application you made your stellar samples in (and they BETTER be stellar!) Maya or Max will mean a shorter training period to get you up and running in the Pixar/polygonal system.

 

A little off topic but-

 

There's a guy I used to work with. He started in Maya about 2 years before I started in A:M...(1998) He wanted to become a Pixar animator...it never happened for him. He recently retired from animation at the golden age of 32. After doing 7 years of what I call 'spinning cars' at $50,000 a pop...pop after pop, he walked away. Said he had made his nutshell, time to do something else. He now runs the video show for his church. You can see a small portion of his work here:

http://gracewild.com/divisionx/index.html

 

He is a success story. There is not a whole lot of success stories in the animation business. Things may change, but I think a young person's chances are better at becoming 'gainfully-employed' with Maya or Max than A:M or Lightwave, or any other app. Don't believe me? Check out any jobs site.

 

Best of luck! Knock us dead!

[robcat2075]

Last I heard, Pixar doesn't use Maya, not for animation anyway. They've been using a program they developed themselves called "Marionette". Internally they call it something else.

 

They have released a version of Renderman for Maya, that may be the cause of confusion.

 

from the Pixar FAQ page

 

What animation software do you use and what do you recommend to those hoping to work for a company like Pixar in the future?

Pixar uses its own proprietary software called Marionette, built and maintained in-house. Be sure to research other commercially available animation software programs. Animation Magazine (www.animationmagazine.net) and the Animation World Network (www.awn.com) are good resources.

 

In general, at Pixar we look for broad artistic and technical skills, rather than ability to run one package or another. We concentrate on finding people with breadth, depth, communication skills and the ability to collaborate. If you have those attributes, we can teach you the tools.

 

My advice would be to find out what app your school will be teaching its courses on. Learn that one. Then if you have a question about it someone onthe faculty will have the responsibility to answer it since it was the school's choice. I'm not guaranteeing they will fulfill that responsibility but at least you're in step with the program.

 

If you were thinking of taking models you made in Maya and using them in A:M, forget that. The nature of the models is very different. Make your models in A:M.

 

If you were having trouble animating in A:M, the bad news is that Maya's interface paradigm is just about identical. The buttons are in different places, they may have different names and different shapes , but basically it's all about bones and key frames and channels just like in animation master except it's not as well thought out. Maya's timeline is a very primitive creature.

[apophispro]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

 

As far as the application my school is using goes, they are using Maya. That was one of the reasons I originally decided to learn it. Also I used to be more interested in working for ILM than Pixar which does inherently use Maya, though heavily modified. It's not that I'm having any trouble with Maya, but it is a very technical application. I've really delved into it and worked with MEL (Maya's Embedded Language) and been learning the architecture and everything, but there are some days I just want to sit down and animate. I remember being able to do that in Animation Master whereas I feel in some ways it's harder with Maya.

 

The other thing I miss about Animation Master is the community. If communities like this exist for Maya I have yet to find one. There are no boot camps, or collaborative projects that you can easily get into. Few people give you free rigged models to play with, or anything of that nature. It took me 4 months just to find a supportive community that used Maya. Communities like this just don't seem to happen for the big industry apps. If there are boot camps you usually have to pay to get in them, and collaborative projects are usually just a newbie who got inspired but won't make it past the first few weeks of planning. All in all the whole thing can really go against the inspiration factor.

 

I have found some great stuff at cgsociety and at 3dbuzz, but there isn't a Tin Woodsman of Oz or Newbie Bootcamp in those places if you know what I mean. So it's not so much that I wanted to switch programs because of the application, as much as the communities spawned by the application.

 

With all that said you're all right though. At this point there would be more advantages for me to stick with Maya such as being able to use it at my school, and who knows maybe my junior or senior year I'll try and get that internship at ILM which can only be gotten with Maya.

 

Thanks again for all your help. If anyone has any suggestions I'd be quite happy to hear them.

 

-apophis

[C-grid]

Humans compared to 3D-applications:

 

They grew-up differently but are alike

They look different but feel the same

 

The real difference is really me...

[Rodney]

Apophis,

 

Wow. What a endorsement for A:M, the A:M Forum, TWO and the A:M Community in general.

If nothing other than simply heartfelt its great to have that kind of validation. That sent shivers up my spine.

 

If you are looking into getting into the industry much of the process is and will continue to be software agnostic. The Principles of Animation apply throughout.

 

What are your priorities?

 

If you want to animate I suggest diving in completely with TWO. Show others what you can animate.

Demonstrate that you can finish the work.

 

If you want to get into the industry (i.e. work for Pixar) you'll have to invest in that priority.

That can take on many forms (schools, training videos, internships, etc.) but most of these will cost you a lot of money.

 

If you don't have a lot of money I know a great community where you can at least animate!

 

Thanks for posting!

Rodney

[apophispro]

Hi Rodney,

 

My aim is to get into the industry, and I've made quite a few investments in that venue (despite not having the money). I have many video tutorials including the Anzovin set, Mastering Maya: The Fundamentals, and Mastering Maya: Advanced Modeling. I also have a nice shelf of cg books at home, and as I said before I'm going to college for acting and character animation next year. So I'm entirely willing to make all the investments it takes even if it takes me a waitering job, and nearly bankrupting myself to do it.

 

That said, I've spent the day looking at different Maya communities and I still can't find anything that matches this one. Some have weekly contests and that sort of thing, but I still like the idea of the bootcamp and TWO. So I'm thinking about doubling in programs. I don't have specific plans for this weekend so I think I'm going to sit down with the Anzovin video set, boot up animation master, and see how far I can get. If I feel that it isn't going to take too much time to get up to speed in the program again then I can balance between doing what I want to in Animation Master and keeping up with Maya. Besides learning another program never hurt anyone that I've heard, and I'm certainly not going to forget over a years worth of Maya knowledge.

 

Thanks everyone for the help, and I'll keep you posted. Maybe you'll see me with a bootcamp thread in the student forum soon!

 

-apophis

 

P.S. One question. As I am still back on version 10, if I find that I want to continue using Animation Master should I invest the money to upgrade? Thanks again.

[Rodney]

P.S. One question. As I am still back on version 10, if I find that I want to continue using Animation Master should I invest the money to upgrade? Thanks again.

 

Definitely. If you want to work on TWO you'll need to upgrade. TWO requires v13 formatted files. The good news is that upgrading is just $99 from any version of A:M you own.

 

I can't speak to Maya and the other programs but you have my commitment as an A:M User already.

That'd be true whether you upgrade or not.

 

There is a big difference between v10 and v14! Wow. Where to start???

At its most basic level (the interface, ease of use etc.) A:M is still very much the same however.

 

2007 is set to be a great year in a lot of ways.

It sounds like with what you already know you are set for success yourself.

 

Challenge Hash Inc to put your $99 to the absolute best use they can and do yourself a big favor... upgrade!

The money you save can then 'wasted' on other more expensive purchases.

 

I'm sure others have opinions but you are bound to get more pro A:M responses than not around here.

It is after all the Hash Inc A:M Forum. We're not biased! We're convinced.