entity Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 (edited) Hello, Have to make a new model... I like the model I made before, but I need to cut down on the amount of patches... so I redesigned the male model. Cutting down on patch count- I didn't find out this until I was mostly done- means you HAVE to use a multitude of hooks and 5- and 3-point patches. I went from more than 6000 patches (my first model) to nearly 3000 (this model)... I only have half done... havn't CFA'd, yet. I still have to do the inside mouth... then I'll be done... one more day! wireframes : Edited September 25, 2004 by entity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted September 25, 2004 Author Share Posted September 25, 2004 More wires: 3/4 view back Front view Side view Back view Top view Bottom view I'll post an animation (turn table) so you can see it fully rendered with both sides together (unattached). I'm pleased with the new model, even though it breaks my heart to go with less patches... it will be better in the long run, on rigging for animation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTalbotski Posted September 25, 2004 Share Posted September 25, 2004 The model has very good form and is very light spline-wise. Is there a reason you are building it so light? It may not be easy to form mouth shapes and facial expressions if the mesh is too light. But I like what you've done so far. Keep updating! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaetan Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 It's a gorgeous model. Thanks for putting up the views. I'm just learning how to model in splines and those pictures are going to be a lot of help! Gaetan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 JTalbotski, Thanks- Do I ever do anything the "easy way"? I'm going to give it a try. If I need more splinage then I'll add more... but not a lot. I'm doing a lighter model because I want it to render fast and I will have to rig this, so I made it easy for me to rig. After looking at other people's way of modeling I was struck by how much less detail in splines you need to construct the shapes that you need. I tried to use a few splines as possible and get a different look going (stylistic-realistic). gaetan, YOU inspired me to give this a try. Your model (dominique) is quite light also, and has that poser look, too, even though she is anime... she has a stylistic- realistic look. So I'll LEARN from you, too. I'm posting the "flyaround" animation below. My camera path got weird and I ended up with a weird wobble on the camera:(386kb) NuBuildFNLg.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckbat Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 When you're done, be sure to post a "before and after" wireframe, so we can all marvel at the hard work you've put into this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenH Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Nice work! It's probably your style, but your eyes seem to be very sunken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted September 26, 2004 Author Share Posted September 26, 2004 Ken, I'm using a rotoscope, dude! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all2c00l Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 Looks awesome! Just out of curiousity, how long does it take to create a model that indepth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DArtZ Posted September 26, 2004 Share Posted September 26, 2004 NIce work. why not just rotate the model 360 on the y instead of spinning the camera? Mike Fitz www.3dartz.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted September 27, 2004 Author Share Posted September 27, 2004 all2c00l Posted on Sep 26 2004, 07:48 PM how long does it take to create a model that indepth? That really depends on how long you been modeling with splines. I been splining since v6. It took me 5 days, 6 hours a day. This is my third attempt at this model. The earlier one that I did was started in version 8.5L. I brought him into version 11 and edited what I had from 8,xxx patches to 7,xxx patches (don't remember the actual patch counts). I've never really constructed the splines the way they were ment to be. And I certainly didn't take into account that the way I was modeling might cause problems for rigging. But-- I learned the hard way and wasted 9 months on the old model. Not that the model isn't functional or modeled well, it just didn't have what I needed for my animation project. 3DArtZ Posted on Sep 26 2004, 07:58 PM why not just rotate the model 360 on the y instead of spinning the camera? Well, I had him in two halves. I hadn't CFA'd him yet, and I didn't know how to import a path in a chor, and time was running out. One half was just dragged in and the other... dragged in and changed; x-scale to -100%. Yes- and now that I have time to think about this I realised that I could have given one of them a constraint so it would orient like the other half and they would have moved together-- DUH! Next time I'll try that instead... but now I have him CFA'd... so I can drop the path--delete!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddavis Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Hey Rich, Still at the top of your game. You are the "mad spliner"!!! How long does it take to load with the reduced splinage? Any trouble with creasing since you increased the 3 and 5 point patches? (I always seem to have a problem with that sort of stuff) Do you plan to change the resolution of your textures? (He's even more impressive when he's wearing his skin) In my opinion the rotating camera is much more dramatic and looks cooler (but what do I know) Don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 ddavis Posted on Sep 27 2004, 11:47 AM Hey Rich, Still at the top of your game. Whenwas I at the top... I must have missed that... You are the "mad spliner"!!! Ask Yves. How long does it take to load with the reduced splinage? Any trouble with creasing since you increased the 3 and 5 point patches? (I always seem to have a problem with that sort of stuff) It takes a LOT less time! Never said anything increased just seems like I'm using the 3 and 5 points to escape dead end splines more often since I did this with less splines. Do you plan to change the resolution of your textures? (He's even more impressive when he's wearing his skin) Yeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaas! That's a definite YES! This time I'm going to wait til I'm done completely-- then I'll texture him. In my opinion the rotating camera is much more dramatic and looks cooler (but what do I know) Yeah It's wierd... that's why you like it. I just want to say that your quote in your signature says it all. Thanks Don... I may have to yell at you for this- I'll PM you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 Well... Still working on this generic man model. I've given him the 2001 rig. Also, I put in many fan bones w/constraints to smooth joint bends at the shoulder, leg/pelvis, and knees. I smartskinned his Back/ Back2 bones also, so far. This time around it was a lot easier to rig him, because of the low patch count. I plan to donate this model (when complete) to the content CD project. I seem to keep running into an arm twisting the wrong way problem if the hand target is too far away from the hand position... anybody know how to fix that- I just moved the hand target closer to the hand, trying to maintain the poses. In the animation I included here, I tried the actions supplied on the A:M 2004 CD. There were a few things I had to edit, because his scale is different from the scale in the actions in more than one branch of bones. I doubled the time from 2 sec. to 4 sec. because it looked better for the proportions of a realistic human. ShamelessCCMed.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Baker Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nice work but the bend is too high. Looks like you have it above the stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted October 3, 2004 Author Share Posted October 3, 2004 Nice work but the bend is too high. Looks like you have it above the stomach. You mean the arm? Where? The targets or the elbow bone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypoissant Posted October 3, 2004 Share Posted October 3, 2004 That's a very nice low spline model. You've got the form right even with such low density. Have you considered using displacement maps instead of splines for the stomach muscles? This would reduce the spline counts but might increase the render time which would defeat your original purpose. One note, from the tests I did once, the number of patches in a model does not greatly affects the render time. It affects the load time though. But if your main goal was to reduce the render time, then getting low patch will not really get you there. But one more important consideration, as you also mentioned, is the ease of animating. I found out that a high density model is hard to animate due to the high number of CPs and splines that need to be tweaked in poses and smartskins. The good side of a high density model is that you can really get an almost perfect muscular morphology if you can spend the time to tweak. But a too low density model is also hard to animate, especially if you go for a realistic look, because it gets hard to find the right CPs/Splines tweak combination that will get you the just correct aspect. The real difficulty is finding the right compromise between dense and light mesh models. About that note on the bend, There is a clearly visible bending stress just above the lower part of the rib cage. The actual bend on the abdomen should be lower than that. One way to fan bone this part is to place a serie of bones along the back bone and have them orient like the bone below and the bone above in increasing percentage proportion. Lets say we have "Hip bone"->Back Bone"->"Cage Bone". Place a serie of small fan bones along the "Back Bone" such that each of them controls one spline ring of the abdomen. Each of those fan bones orient like "Hip Bone" and "Cage Bone". Then adjust the percentage to get the bends and twists right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Have you considered using displacement maps instead of splines for the stomach muscles? This would reduce the spline counts but might increase the render time which would defeat your original purpose. Yes, and this model doesn't require it because I won't be showing this much skin. It is a starting point so I can model the clothing over it later. I plan to actually make his clothing as a seperate piece but use the same bones... then, deleting the "under" body and using only the clothing and any part of him that is exposed. I plan to do this for each costume change for the character, so I end up with several copies of the character in different clothing- or even states of decay or transition... depending on what the story requires. And as for detail... my story isn't exactly serious drama or something... so I like this stylized look you get with a low patch count, also I tend to lean toward comicbook art influences in the way I draw and visualize things. This style suits me--(Semi-realistic). One note, from the tests I did once, the number of patches in a model does not greatly affects the render time. It affects the load time though. But if your main goal was to reduce the render time, then getting low patch will not really get you there. I'm aware of your test... Load time and rendertime are not as much of a concern as getting the rigging and poses done efficently and not having to spend so much time on tweaking mesh and bone. I just want to create a nice neat character that is flexible and has that semi-realistic look. I'm not trying for realist--- I tried and the mesh/bones are just a headache for me-- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Baker Posted October 4, 2004 Share Posted October 4, 2004 Nice work but the bend is too high. Looks like you have it above the stomach. You mean the arm? Where? The targets or the elbow bone? I was talking about the stomach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entity Posted October 4, 2004 Author Share Posted October 4, 2004 Yes... and Yves cleared that up also. It is too high.-- back to the rigging board, again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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