zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 I've decided to model a guitar. At first I wanted to model a car, but after several failed attempts, I decided to build something on a smaller scale to get used to the feel of the mechanical/organic style modeling used in both cars and electric guitars. I decided to model a fender Stratocaster a. Because I have a Strat knock off and b. Because strat's kick @ss I decided that I'd keep everyone informed on my progress and I'll make it into a mini-tute (I don't have the time to do an extremely in depth step by step). At some point I will probably compile it all and give it a permanent spot on my website. Remember that I'm not coming here as an expert, as much as I hope I am helping others, I hope to receive help along the way (especially with surfacing) I started tonight, modeling the place where you plug it on the front (no idea what it's called). I'm ashamed to say that I didn't bevel every edge as I should have (it just takes so darn long!) and I didn't make it as exact as I should have, I kind of eyeballed everything, and tweaked it until it looked OK. I can already see that I will struggle with materials, even though they are quite basic, because of my complete lack of knowledge on that subject. My modeling method was: 1) Make an outline for the outside shape, a surfboard-like ellipse, and a second outline of the inner area. 2) Extruded outer outline down small amount. 3) Made two small circle outlines for underneath the screws, where a small amount of deformation in the reflectivity is visible. 4) Began connecting shapes, keeping almost all lines, except those which are specifically meant to be curved, peaked. 5) from bottom tip of inner outline, extruded inwards and down for indentation. 6) made a circular outline for the cord receptacle area 7) continued to fill in interior w/ splines and declare 5 point patches. I made use of the maintain curve tool a lot until it began crashing A:M. I then switched methods to get around it. 8) modeled screws and put them in place, noticed it would take a lot of geometry to make the indentations, so I decided to put that off till I find a way around it (booleans?) Ta da I still need to do some beveling, but that knocked out the basic shape. My splinage isn't the best, but even without porcelain (which does not react well to sharp edges) it rendered quite well. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 And here is the wireframe. Note that the only difference is a slight beveling on the inner outline. The topology isn't wonderful, but it serves it's purpose. I'm not going for uber-realistic (I'll take what I can get ) If you find you're getting lost, because you don't know much about guitars, or because my explanations are crap, you can always refer to this image: Strat Front. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabloschmid Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 hey zacktaich, I'm really interested how your project comes along, strat was my first electrical guitar, I hope you will do a nice job, your mesh looks at the moment very good. I'm now playing a gibson sg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted May 23, 2004 Share Posted May 23, 2004 Had an American strat for along time, played so fine..looking forward to seeing yours progress.....Now to pick up my Ovation and pick some Ozark Mountain Daredevils......guess I showed my age there..., Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 I have an Ovation, my parents were willing to spend a little bit more at the time for a guitar that would hold up to my beatings (I was something like 10 years old). Next are the pickups. (edit: changed what I want to do next) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 23, 2004 Admin Share Posted May 23, 2004 Drat! Another thing I have no talent at.... music! I had no idea you were a musician as well... guess they never do make boy geniuses simple do they! Keep going Zack! Looking forward to seeing more step-by-step! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 I had no idea you were a musician as well... guess they never do make boy geniuses simple do they! Never said I was any good! I need to just work on improvisation and jamming. If I may say so myself, my classical pieces played on electric are pretty good . lol. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 Ok, modeled the pickup(s). Very simple, but I'll explain anyways for those who are getting used to splining. Method: 1) For outer shape I lathe an 8 point circle and delete one half. I pull the half that is left to the side. 2) Copy, then flip, and then attach (note: not one step) so that you have a nice pickup like shape. I did some peaking and played w/ bias to get the sharp top and bottom edges, although there are better and easier ways to do this. 3) Lathe a 4 point circle and put it in the pickup outline. now copy this six times, using any technique you know of to make sure they are at least somewhat equidistant. 4) Now, begin filling in the shape you have, other than the two sides, I found that for the most part I needed to use 5 point patches. 5) extrude the outside edge, make sure to bevel. 6) Now make the little magnetic keys that go in the circle. to do this: I. Select one of the circles, copy it and scale it down to something like 95% in XYZ (I don't know which way you have yours rotated). II. Pull that back in a little bit, and then extrude it out once. Extrude again, this time for beveling, only scaling it down to something like 90-95%. then cap off the end. 7) Copy it five times and put them into the other five holes. You may have noticed that a lot of the modeling I do involves first making outlines, and filling in later, this is the best way to go about almost any situation IMO. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 23, 2004 Author Share Posted May 23, 2004 Wireframe of pickup. Next I'm going to do the bridge/saddle (where the strings come out of at the bottow). Lot's of little complicated pieces on this part so, I'll show individual shots of each. Hopefully that will explain itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 Just thought I'd leave off w/ a screen shot of what I've done so far on the bridge. I'll work more on this tomorrow. More detail on it then. It already has 1000+ patches (just this part). Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted May 24, 2004 Share Posted May 24, 2004 It's going along great Zack....wondering how your thinking of doing the strings? I did a barbwire fence once and just did a spline to render as a line..I guess in V11 you could use hair guides and twist the hair to look like wound strings for those extremely close up shots...... Keep up the good work.. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 24, 2004 Author Share Posted May 24, 2004 I was definitely planning on using 'render as lines'. Same w/ the springs that will be on the bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 Ok, finished the bridge. I'm really enjoying this. The design is basically that of my own, except I modified it slightly for aesthetic reasons. No materials (other than on the springs) have been applied. Despite the already high patch count I'm starting to really wish I had the grooves in the screw heads. I may use a bump map is I find it works well. I haven't modeled the whammy bar yet, but the hole is there. I hope the pictures are pretty self explanatory, as a lot of the modeling process was similar to (although notably more complicated than) previous pieces, I will not go into extreme detail about the process. Pieces (I don't know their real names): Keys Pretty simple, I used a similar outline technique as before, making sure to bevel every surface. There are two holes that are in every model I have ever seen, although the reason is unkown to me. inside there are little concave wheels for the strings to roll on. Bridge This was a little bit complicated in its construction. I started out wit a pre-beveled, 4 point spline which I extruded all the way around the shape of bridge. Then I made an outline for a hole in which the whammy bar will go. I later filled it in. One difficulty was dealing w/ some peaked/smoothed issues. In some places I had to go with a peaked spline that's bias was tweaked on one side. This is a last case scenario for me, as tweaking biases for perfect bevels is not easy, and can get bad results. There is probably an easier way for all of this, but it worked. From the looks of it, other than possibly the body, this is the most complicated piece, modeling wise. I'm not sure what I'll model next, I may just knock off some of the easy stuff, like tone and volume adjusters, tuning keys, or the neck. Hope you've enjoyed this or learned something. Hopefully I'll get something else done either tonight or tomorrow. Cheers, Zack EDIT: The total number of patches for all the pieces I have modeled so far is 2071. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted May 25, 2004 Admin Share Posted May 25, 2004 Most impressive... you are a lot more patient than me! I'm taking notes.... Lots of nice detail worked into the objects thus far. Keep it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egopoe Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Wow, it looks very impressive and very real. Are you going to make a Springsteen to play it when you are done? And a question. How did you make the screw threads? Did you use AMloft, or is this a feature in newer versions than mine? Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf124 Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Quite Impressive... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 25, 2004 Author Share Posted May 25, 2004 And a question. How did you make the screw threads? Did you use AMloft, or is this a feature in newer versions than mine?I didn't use AMloft. I don't use it much at all because it's a pain to have to leave the program. But I love lofting features. The screws are sometimes spheres that are partially hidden, and sometimes just half spheres. Quite Impressive... Thank you. ---- More coming tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esse Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Keys Pretty simple, I used a similar outline technique as before, making sure to bevel every surface. There are two holes that are in every model I have ever seen, although the reason is unkown to me. inside there are little concave wheels for the strings to roll on. The holes are made for screws so you can adjust the string height. Looking forward to see the finished strat Cheers Lars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazz Posted May 25, 2004 Share Posted May 25, 2004 Wow. You're sure putting a lot of detail into this model. It's turning out great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 28, 2004 Author Share Posted May 28, 2004 Thanks for the support. Sorry I haven't been here for the last two days, I've been backpacking with my dad. Before I left I got a good start on the body outline, I'll probably finish up the basic body shape tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 OK, finished the body. It's not the best topology, but it does it's job. Basic idea was that I extruded a 6 point, curved spline all the way along the outline except near the very top where the two ends meet and the neck is attached. Here, the sides are much different. Here, I used basically a modified, beveled cube. I connected everything and that's that. If you want further explanation of any part, go 'head and ask. The holes are made for screws so you can adjust the string height. Looking forward to see the finished strat Thanks! Remind me not to touch those (I'll probably end up screwing it up, no pun intended). Wow. You're sure putting a lot of detail into this model. It's turning out great. Thanks, A few parts may not have the same level of detail, but I hope to keep this as realistic and as detailed as I can (I'm afraid I may have slacked off a bit with the body, there should be more bevels near the top). Zack p.s. You may notice a gaping hole and uneven cutoffs, these areas are not as important because they will be covered later on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Wont be long where it will be ready to be played....back to the strings...what brand do you prefer to play and size..lights, altra lights ,others? maybe Ill models a tuner for you..or do you tune by ear? I tuned by ear most of my life but getting older and seem to have problems doing it now. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 what brand do you prefer to play and size..lights, altra lights ,others?Brand: I don't really care, I'm currently using Fenders, but I don't care if they're Fenders, Ernie Ball, or some off-brand-made-in-china-el-cheapo strings, as long as they play well. Weight: I'm currently playing regular lights, because my last set of ultra lights snapped two strings in the first two weeks. maybe Ill models a tuner for you..or do you tune by ear? I tuned by ear most of my life but getting older and seem to have problems doing it now. It depends on what I have with me. If I have an electric tuner I'll use that, because it always gives me the most exact results. The one method I can't stand is using a pitch pipe. Hate those things. I think I'll work on the neck next. Or maybe the pick guard. I can't decide. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamjames Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Looks good, Zack. I play a Les Paul myself, but the strat is a classic. Adam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Ditto on the pitch pipe...I didn't mention it on purpose..LOL....I used it when I first started playing (practicing) and soon realized if I didnt learn to tune by ear (this was the early 70s so electronic tuners where out of my range price wise) Id have to give up the guitar.. Ive enjoyed the few times Ive got to play a Les Paul...I have yet to play a bad Gibson of any type. Looking forward to your next section..the neck. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf124 Posted May 29, 2004 Share Posted May 29, 2004 Sweet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted May 29, 2004 Author Share Posted May 29, 2004 I play a Les Paul myself, but the strat is a classic. mmm... Les Paul... A bit out of my price range Maybe someday. Ditto on the pitch pipe...I didn't mention it on purpose..LOL....I used it when I first started playing (practicing) and soon realized if I didnt learn to tune by ear (this was the early 70s so electronic tuners where out of my range price wise) Id have to give up the guitar.. Or have someone else tune for you . Sweet... Thanks... I'm starting to feel like it's all coming together, although I'm not sure how everything will fall into place. I should have time to model tonight, and I'll post an update, although it will probably be pretty late. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 OK, here goes... Life got in the way of this project for a few days, but I'm back. I modeled a basic stand-in neck and I started putting things together a few days ago and it was looking really nice, unfortunately I wasn't sequentially saving at the time and my body model got screwed up. I sent it off to hash, and they're cleaning it up right now, but until then I decided I should still model the pieces I'm missing. Pickguard: super basic stuff, used reference images to draw an outline. Extruded. Closed off. Very complicated, huh? Well here it is anyways. 56 patches. more to come soon. I hope to find a better way to model the neck than the last way I tried. I'll probably end up making it a bit simpler than it is in actuality. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 I put the pickguard in. Just so that you trust me when I say the model is screwed up, I posted a pic . It may or may not have to do with v11e. Just in case, I moved back to v11d, and have had no problems since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 8, 2004 Author Share Posted June 8, 2004 Ok, I got some help from Noel. I won't go into full detail but it involved first upgrading to v11f, then doing some registry editing, then copying and pasting the model into a new .mdl file. Then there was about 30 mins of cleanup, but the nightmare is over now. So here are many of the parts put together. The neck is still just a stand-in. So basically I just copied and pasted all the parts in and used plenty of reference (if you need photos in .TGA format, just ask, and I'll attach them) to scale and put them in place. I think it looks pretty good considering the minimal texturing so far. Zack Oh: 2805 patches, so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted June 8, 2004 Admin Share Posted June 8, 2004 Zack, Glad to see you back on your feet again and posting good updates! I'd like to report here that I just loaded v11.0f and it is behaving most extraordinarily. Solid... and zoom zoom zoom fast! Maybe the load just cleaned the cobwebs out too! I'm testing everything I can to see if I can find anything amiss but... I am having a real blast! Your strat is looking fine too I must say! I can't wait to see some reflection in the surface of it... although I know that is probably a ways away. Keep on posting updates Zack! I'm liking the level of detail you've got in it thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vf124 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 Wow...can't wait to see some strings on it ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 I'd like to report here that I just loaded v11.0f and it is behaving most extraordinarily. Solid... and zoom zoom zoom fast!I'm having the same great experience. It's a rock solid version, and it's a wee bit faster when it comes to heavy patch counts. I have absolutely no idea why. Maybe it has to do with the fact that I cleaned up this model. I can't wait to see some reflection in the surface of it... although I know that is probably a ways away. I've been playing around with reflections, and my conclusion is that I'm going to need a lot of help from the user base when it comes to texturing . The problem I had was having reflections on at the same time as ambience... But texturing comes later. All I have now is a teensy bit of specularity and flat colors. Ok, I Modeled the neck. Basically, I started out with a spline that looked like this: 0--------------------------------0 0 0 | | | | | | 0 0 0--------------------------------0 I extruded this a few times, then extruded it once more, and I altered this or to look like: _____---_____ _____----0 0----_____ / \ 0 0 0--------------------------------0 Basically, it made a change from a beveled square to a half beveled square/half curve. This second spline was extruded up the body. For the fret dividing bars I will either use a displacement map or some basic little cylinders. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandoriastudios Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Nice modeling--you have really come far this year, I'm impressed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Nice modeling--you have really come far this year, I'm impressed! Hey, thanks! I'm no longer confused with splines. I feel good... (I think I feel a song coming on) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Here's the thing I'm not proud of, the hierarchy. I can't wait for some form of folders to be implemented. Here are the groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Ok, this is my last night before my grandparents come, and my last chance to get some modeling in before I take a 4 day break (my office is in the guest bedroom ). So here are the tweaks and a description of each: 1. Added knobs - just a simple lathe job. 2. Added screws - a little complicated, I will post a wireframe shot of these in a bit. 3. Added material to neck - a spherical combiner with an fbm turbulence, stretched 3000% in Y axis, 50% in X axis. That's about all for now. Questions, comments, critiques, very much appreciated. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Added knobs for the strap (on the bottow and on the top). Just simple lathed shapes. I'm posting this because it is my last update for a little while. I'll still be able to field questions on my sisters computer, but I won't have access to A:M. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Looking great there..I still keep on checking this thread.. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 Looking great there..I still keep on checking this thread.. Thanks! It's good to know I merit one regular reader . Questions, anyone? Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypoissant Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Here's the thing I'm not proud of, the hierarchy. I can't wait for some form of folders to be implemented. Here are the groups. They are already implemented since v9 AFAIK. Right click on the "groups" and select "New folder" or something like that. Then you can organize your groups in as much folders and sub-folders as you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 They are already implemented since v9 AFAIK. Right click on the "groups" and select "New folder" or something like that. Then you can organize your groups in as much folders and sub-folders as you like. Thanks for the tip! I can't wait to try it out. I had never heard of this before. This needs to be filed away somewhere... Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted June 9, 2004 Share Posted June 9, 2004 Hey I do have a question..on any tight shots do you have any creases? and are you using the porclain (for the life of me I cant remember the spelling) material. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 9, 2004 Author Share Posted June 9, 2004 1) I haven't seen any creases, yet. Part of it is just using proper splinage (not beautiful splinage neccesarily, just proper splinage) and the other part is making sure that everything that should be flat, is flat. 2) No, I haven't used porcelain yet. Maybe for some of the more complicated places (such as the neck and it's connection to the frets, coming next!) It's sad not being able to use A:M for a few days... I think I'm gonna cry Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessBill Posted June 12, 2004 Share Posted June 12, 2004 I'm waiting to see what it'll look like once you get the head and the strings on there. It's looking good so far. Any idea what the environment is going to be for it as a final render? Anyhow, here is the guitar I had to make for my C4D class I told you about in chat. The guitar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 12, 2004 Author Share Posted June 12, 2004 Wow! Nice job on that. What would you say was the hardest part to model on that? I've been looking at the connection to the neck a lot recently, and I have noticed that it's more complincated than I originally thought. This should give you a good idea of what the front and back look like. This may also help. Edit: Bingo, http://www.bravewoodguitars.co.uk/images/b...neck%20wear.jpg The idea is that it goes (basically) from curved to flat, with the flat are being beveled into the curve. If that makes any sense at all. I'll maybe snap some pics of my own to show you. I've got a few ideas of how I'll pull it off, All I know is I'll probably need a lot of hooks. Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Ok, lots of new stuff today. Check it out. It's almost finished. What I need to do still is add all the tuning keys, strings, and a few final touches. I also noticed that I'll need to move around the pickups and bridge and neck, because they don't quite line up. Any comments about the proportions, look, or anything are much appreciated. There is a minor crease visible in this image, near the top. This no longer exists, I just moved some splines around and spaced it all out. Zack p.s. Sorry if my grammar and writing are bad. It's 1:33 AM and I'm ready for bed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zacktaich Posted June 14, 2004 Author Share Posted June 14, 2004 Oh yeah, 4417 patches. A:M is actually not lagging at all right now. Very impressive. Hats off to you, Hash people! Zack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mrsl13 Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 That's looking great !!! Close to photo real to me already, but I must admit I do need glasses, but thats not to take anything away from your modeling work. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadlessBill Posted June 14, 2004 Share Posted June 14, 2004 It's looking good zack. Looking forward to see it strung. But to answer your question you asked me, the hardest part to model was the the whole damn thing! Actually, I'd say the area where the strings attach to the body. I had only one picture to go off of when I made the guitar (no side, back or close-ups) and no access to a real one (of any style). I faked the stuff I couldn't make out and didn't model the stuff I thought would be too hard (leather pick guard and straps). I still made an 'A' on it, but I think the teacher was impressed by the f-scroll holes in the body, but that was easy, since I know how to use splines (thanks to A:M). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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