stages of democracy

[pixelplucker]

Around 1790, Historian Alexander Tyler listed the 8 phases of a Democracy:

Stages of Democracy - Where's the U.S.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. From Bondage to spiritual faith;
2. From spiritual faith to great courage;
3. From courage to liberty;
4. From liberty to abundance;
5. From abundance to complacency;
6. From complacency to apathy;
7. From apathy to dependence;
8. From dependence back into bondage"

[Mechadelphia]

Ok I'll bite.

I'll say we are at a solid 5.

 

[pixelplucker]

I was thinkin more 7ish

[Mechadelphia]

I understand where you are coming from.  My initial response was the most optimistic one that I could rationalize.

When I read the description for #8 I think in general of government collapse, revolution, or civil war.  I do think that we are approaching those kinds of scenarios but I don't think that we are knocking on that door just yet.  I think that, collectively, it is still possible for us to delay those possibilities for a little while longer.

If we can't delay that then I believe the slide from where we may be now to #8 will be very rapid.

 

[Rodney]

The good news is that the list is cyclic so...

Maybe we just need to iterate through it more quickly. 

(speed up on the bad parts and slow way down on the good stuff)

 

Added:  My response to where 'we' are is a cop-out; different parts of the USA are in different stages at any given time.  Over all things tend to balance... with occasional fits and starts.  It doesn't help that we often don't know when and to what we are in bondage.  It's interesting that abundance seems to peak in the list but there isn't any specific allowance for it to drop.  This would seem to me to be the game changer that can break countries out of the cycle at least in part.  So given all of that if I have to pick a stage for the whole lot I'd say 5.

[robcat2075]

That list seems to be a modern contrivance since there is no work by an Alexander Tyler (nor "Tytler") that has such a list in it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-fall-of-the-athenian-republic/

 

The premise of someone writing that in 1790 is sketchy. He would have had scant opportunity to thoroughly study democracy in 1790. And as a supposed Scottish Lord it's unlikely he'd be writing with an eye toward fairly appraising it.

Here is one sleuth's attempt to find out who originated it...

http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

(TLDR: it's impossible to tie down to anyone.)

 

I think it is a re-tooling of the more common aphorism:

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times."

I have no idea who said that. It is also widely quoted on the internet with all sorts of attribution.

 

 

[Mechadelphia]

On 3/9/2019 at 11:38 AM, Rodney said:

The good news is that the list is cyclic so...

Maybe we just need to iterate through it more quickly. 

(speed up on the bad parts and slow way down on the good stuff)

 

Added:  My response to where 'we' are is a cop-out; different parts of the USA are in different stages at any given time.  Over all things tend to balance... with occasional fits and starts.  It doesn't help that we often don't know when and to what we are in bondage.  It's interesting that abundance seems to peak in the list but there isn't any specific allowance for it to drop.  This would seem to me to be the game changer that can break countries out of the cycle at least in part.  So given all of that if I have to pick a stage for the whole lot I'd say 5.

I agree.

On 3/9/2019 at 12:16 PM, robcat2075 said:

That list seems to be a modern contrivance since there is no work by an Alexander Tyler (nor "Tytler") that has such a list in it.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/the-fall-of-the-athenian-republic/

 

The premise of someone writing that in 1790 is sketchy. He would have had scant opportunity to thoroughly study democracy in 1790. And as a supposed Scottish Lord it's unlikely he'd be writing with an eye toward fairly appraising it.

Here is one sleuth's attempt to find out who originated it...

http://www.lorencollins.net/tytler.html

(TLDR: it's impossible to tie down to anyone.)

 

I think it is a re-tooling of the more common aphorism:

"Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. Weak men create hard times."

I have no idea who said that. It is also widely quoted on the internet with all sorts of attribution.

 

 

Origins of the list aside, which number do you think is closest to where we (USA) are at right now?

[pixelplucker]

Wonder if there could be a constitutional amendment forcing states to have a minimum IQ requirement in order to qualify for a star on the flag....

That could stabilize the country.