Ross Smith Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 ** UPDATE: 4/15/04: scroll down ** Hey there, hashin' community. I'm in a pickle with a new character model. I'm making these fat, bean/potato-shaped robots. Their bodies have a very smooth, regular surface, which is the source of my worry. Have a look. (Hands and eyes coming soon.) Belly Bot, body Belly Bot, mouth My problem is with the mouth. Victor Navone's posts on Giant are really awesome. I wanted to try out his system, but I think it demands more skill than I have at the present time... So I'll stick with poses. Anyway, you can perhaps see my problem. This character's mouth adheres to a surface that is best described as conic -- it curves around a radius (so it isn't flat on the X and Z axes) and it falls on a slope (so it isn't really flat on the Y axis, either). Lots of talented folks use this forum and may have solved problems much like this in the past, so that's why I ask: how in the heck do you make poses with this sort of mouth? Any kind of point manipulation I've tried so far results in badly deforming this mesh, which I want to keep smooth. I realized that the mouth should move in a basically planar way, but attached to this "conic" surface, However, I haven't come up with a solution to work with that. If anyone has suggestions, ideas, or excellent problem-solving methods, I'm all ears. Thanks for reading. --Ross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Well i'm unsure this is a solution but ... what about a seperate jaw (aka iron giant)? It would change your concept though. I like the design and simplicity of your bot. Keep on. Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted March 31, 2004 Admin Share Posted March 31, 2004 Ross, So....umm... what's the problem? I looks like you've come up with a pretty good solution to me. I think one of the reasons Jeff Lew designed his 'Bean' with the mouth he did was because of your very situation. If you mean by problem the rigging of the mouth... someone posted a solution that involved running a series of bones around the mouth in a circular fashion. Perhaps it was John (Artbox) Henderson.... not sure though. Keep us informed about the question and it's solution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Smith Posted March 31, 2004 Author Share Posted March 31, 2004 Thanks, Modernhorse. Aye, the jaw would change the design a bit. If this challenge defeats me, I'll probably go with a new method like that. The problem is the implementation of the idea in A:M. I would like to make the transforms of the lips and face planar in nature, but they are "mapped" onto a conic segment. If the face were a decal, I could just literally map it to the geometry, but the face is itself geometry. So, has anyone ever come up with a process to do that sort of geometric transformation? It's the A:M specific part I need to know now, the actual tools that would make this idea work. Or, if someone has a different method of doing the same thing. That's why I posted. I thought first that I could flatten the facial area in a pose and do the facial transformations on that flattened face, but the flattening itself stays with the pose... so that's no go. Unless there's a way to make new poses with a separate pose turned on. Then it might work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaryin Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 I think the only thing you will be able to do is to tweak nearly the entire body when doing poses for the mouth to get it looking well. I'm sorry I can't be any more help. Maybe you post a sample of a pose you tried... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 You might try a modified version of the cartoon eye thing. Where you have a round eye with pupil that you want to track on the surface of the eye controlled by the rotation of a bone from the center of the eye. Then a parent bone to they eye and pupil bones is scaled more in the y axis. This makes the pupil track a non spherical eye. You may be able to treat your mouth like the pupil If my explanation isn't up to snuff, or you want me to hack together an example just yell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted March 31, 2004 Share Posted March 31, 2004 Or you could model the face as a cylinder and use a Distort object to form it into the shape you want. Then the mouth could be animated along the face of the cylinder, which is then distorted to the shape you really wanted. Again yell if you want an example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Rodney Posted April 1, 2004 Admin Share Posted April 1, 2004 Noel, Do I count for a yell! PLEASE! Show us an example of what you mean. ;o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted April 1, 2004 Share Posted April 1, 2004 Here is an example of my ideas. If you've already seen it, it is updated to contain both ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Smith Posted April 1, 2004 Author Share Posted April 1, 2004 Noel, that sounds like a perfect solution. Thank you! I'll get crackin' on this distortion objects business. It looks very promising. Also, your examples are very helpful. This is just the sort of advice I was looking for. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Smith Posted April 15, 2004 Author Share Posted April 15, 2004 Hey all, it's me again. This time, the problem is the eyes. (Yay that he has eyes at all! Now then.) Many of you know about the rabbit model in the Hash CD library, the one with the unusual eyes. The eyes are spheres in the model window but transformed into oblong cartoony eyes in all the relationships. The clever modeler/rigger made the eyes such that the pupils adhere to the surface of this irregular eye and still move to track an eye target. My Robot The Finished Rabbit The Rabbit in the Model Window See what I mean? I want to get that effect with my robot's eyes. The right eye of my robot (his right, your left) is just something I made to fit the socket so I could sculpt the socket and deal with this problem later. Now is later, and I would like to know if anyone knows how this was done with the rabbit model, so's I could imitate. Thanks for looking. ** EDIT: Wait, why am I asking this... Noel already answered it for me. Duh. Forgive the stupid person. Thanks for looking anyway. I should have more of this guy posted once I finish his eyes and hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littleandy Posted April 17, 2004 Share Posted April 17, 2004 Many of you know about the rabbit model in the Hash CD library, the one with the unusual eyes. The eyes are spheres in the model window but transformed into oblong cartoony eyes in all the relationships. The clever modeler/rigger made the eyes such that the pupils adhere to the surface of this irregular eye and still move to track an eye target. I had the same question when I was doing my bug's eyes! And someone knew, but it turned out it required a bunch of numbers and thinking and stuff. So I gave up and made the eyes spheres. But more power to you if you can figure out how! -Andrew P.S. Sphere eyes really aren't too bad though. Giv'em a chance, maybe? They reduce stress, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Smith Posted April 18, 2004 Author Share Posted April 18, 2004 Update! Got the eyes working fine. Noel, your advice was great. Just had to scale a parent bone in relationship mode and the rest is taken care of. Who'd'a thunk? I've got the color scheme just about how I want it. I haven't rigged him, except a little for the eyes, and two eye poses (lower the upper eyelid and dialate the pupil). Comments welcome. Front Back Face 1 Face 2 Face, WF P.S. Yes, I know the resemblance to the M&M/Grimace/Killer Bean... I am charging forward regardless. Jeff Lew can consider himself flattered, if anything. He lacks hands, but that's the next project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modernhorse Posted April 19, 2004 Share Posted April 19, 2004 Lookin good Ross !! My first thought was ... wow a real character! Congrats! Doug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazz Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 That's a comical looking character you've got there! I like the way it's turning out. Can't wait to see it in animated. robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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