Happy Families

[robcat2075]

I didn't try multi-pass. I'll experiment with that too.

[Simon Edmondson]

I didn't try multi-pass. I'll experiment with that too.

Robert

I've found a solution to the difficulty ( possibly) but not an answer to the problem causing it.

I've deleted the layer and replaced it with a new backdrop on the same scale using the same decal.

If it works I' get it composited and posted later

smon

[robcat2075]

Here's the result I get with Multipass. No jitter.

 

BlurNoToonHold25FPSMulti_000.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

Here's the result I get with Multipass. No jitter.

 

BlurNoToonHold25FPSMulti_000.mov

Robert

Are you doing that in V18 ?

I'm puzzled.

I've got a version with no jitter now, but had to substitute a .mdl file for the layer and use the jpg as a decal at the appropriate scale.

Each time I thought I'd 'cracked it' I rendered a test and got jitter.

How did you do it ?

regards

simon

 

heres a test with no layer and a mdl plane.

NHF S sixB2.mov

[robcat2075]

The only change I made to your chor was to force the first camera keyframe to Hold interpolation

[Simon Edmondson]

The only change I made to your chor was to force the first camera keyframe to Hold interpolation

Robert

Thank you. I tried that, and retained it thereafter but, still got the twitching.

A puzzle indeed. I wonder if it was a by product of the Toon render ?

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

The same scene, some while later, at a more sedate pace...

Any critical feedback greatly appreciated

simonNHF S006 Mini.mov

[Bobby]

Simon, this is my ideas : moving Rotoscope
http://www.bobby.in.th/TextBox/Panoramic_Background.html
I'm sorry not in English but I think pictures can tell more words.

[Simon Edmondson]

Bobby

Thank you. I remembered your example and was thinking of it when I tried mine.

Your background photos were a lot better than mine and fitted together very well.

Mine did not.

I have another project that your example will work really well on and will use it then,

It uses a time lapse sequence with a motorised camera turn,, so the photos all link up nicely.

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Haven't worked out the clouds yet but, this was an idea towards the intro for the project.

Going for a time lapse effect.

Its going to be a TV commercial for the property developers and acts as a link between two scenes.

Any critical feedback very welcome.

simon

 

Intro.mov

 

 

Ps

720 conversion from 1080 file

[Simon Edmondson]

Two tests, with clouds.

My personal preference is for the coloured sky but,

wonder if the greyer version allows the rest to read more easily ?

Any critical feedback very welcome indeed.

simon

 

Intro 01.mov

 

Intro 02.mov

[robcat2075]

The gray is more somber, the color is more "daytime". Which are you aiming for?

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your feedback. Much appreciated.

 

I'm trying to get it to look like a TV commercial for a property developer. Its the link into the second scene where, the two main characters are having lunch in front of the news on TV. It sets up the location for later in the short, when the Bill and Doris go to visit their daughter and grandchildren. The news report is about the developers going bust and the financial crisis reaching the region.

Basically, its the context in which the narrative takes place.

Hope that doesn't all sound too pompous.

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Following suggestions received, adapted the colour version.

 

Any critical feedback very welcome.

simon

 

Intro 03.mov

[robcat2075]

I think it ought to start with nothing on the ground rather than the first set of blocks.

 

For the clouds, i think you need an actual timelapse of clouds drifting by rather than dissolves from different shots. The different cloud shots are distracting from the buildings.

 

Could you set up a camera and click off a frame every 5 minutes?

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your feedback.

Agree about the starting blocks ( ! pardon pun ) but I think the clouds work OK as an indicator of seasonal time ? I hadn't thought of that initially, but followed up a suggestion on FB. It seemed to make more sense to give a longer timelapse than a short version, given that it covers one house, then the whole estate being built ?

 

I have a lot of timelapse cloud sequences from other projects ( presently resting in the fridge, awaiting reheating ). Its relatively easy to do these days with a DSLR and a laptop, even bought a clockwork rotating head so you can get panoramic timelapses. Ebay is a terrible diverter of funding !!!

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Some updates to work so far.

 

720's from 1080's files

Any critical feedback very welcome indeed.

 

S Two 720.mov

 

S Four.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

First part of the next scene, just before Doris arrives on her motorbike.

Any critical feedback very appreciated and welcome.

simon

 

S5A 000.mov

[Rodney]

Looks good from here Simon.

 

 

 

Just in case you are wondering... I don't often comment on things that look good enough to go to the next stage.

Some folks prefer deep feedback and others look for encouragement but I struggle a bit with this... it sounds silly but... I guess I want what I write to be read.

Yes, I read too much into this but some people don't care for 'Looks good.' commentary and some desire in depth feedback, analysis, etc. etc. even to the point of discussing the tiniest detail.

But we can also over analyse a shot to the point where nothing ever gets finished.

We definitely don't want to do that.

 

I'll have to look at the forum's 'Like' system and see if it could be tweaked for use with a method to quickly suggest a thumbs up/green light.

Then it might become mostly a matter of looking for those cues from people whose feedback you consider sufficiently in line with your expectations to commit to moving forward.

 

Bottom line: You are making impressive progress with this project and I enjoy seeing your updates. That's why we have this WIP section.

Keep it up!

[Simon Edmondson]

Rodney

Thank you very much for your feedback and encouragement. Much appreciated.

I'm happy with all feedback, I get a bit involved and start to lose perspective so, any comments or suggestions will help against that.

I Hope to have the next part done today. I have to make sure her hands stay in the handle bars and put the sky in . Minor details !

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Two slightly different versions of the same scene.

001 has an all toon figure in the foreground,

002 has toon flesh over a 'normal' dress.

Any preferences ?

Mine is towards the second but very happy to hear other views ?

Hope to get the animated version done tomorrow.

 

[Simon Edmondson]

Doris arriving on her bike. Colour version.

Trying to get the tipsy neighbour done tomorrow.

Critical comment very welcome.

simon

 

S5.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

This is the tipsy neighbour eyeing up the young gardener but, it also shows the problems I'm having with cp weighting. Hope to resolve that later today.

Robert pointed out the woman is looking straight ahead, where a lower and more sided gaze might be better. I will correct that but will wait to correct the weighting before re rendering, as the render times are very large with all the reflections going on.

any other critical feedback very welcome.

simon

 

S5D 720.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

Still plugging away. Hope to have some QT files to post over the weekend,

This is a test towards part of scene five.

the background will come into focus when the figures exit towards the camera.

simon

 

 

This is a VGA test without the focus pull

 

S5 G.mov

Just noticed a pesky shadow. DRAT !

back to the render for that.

 

 

[Simon Edmondson]

1080 version of S5 G

Not sure if the focus pull works, too fast, too slow drop altogether ?

 

will try to put the other S5 files together into a sequence this weekend

simon

 

S5 G.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

Apologies for the delay.Had to take some time away from cg work because it was driving me slightly round the twist. Had to get away from sitting in front of the thing and do something else.

Anyway. There are some glitches and continuity errors in this ( you may spot more than I have ) but, this is it so far.

Any critical feedback very welcome indeed,

simon

 

NHF So Far.mov

 

Off to try catch the glitches and errors spotted so far.

 

A cautionary note,

Doris ( 70+ grandma,) directs a crude gesture at the tipsy neighbour at the very end of this sequence.

Apologies if anyone is offended. Its supposed to be in character.

[Simon Edmondson]

Test towards final shot of this scene

[Simon Edmondson]

As a QT file

Any critical feedback very welcome

 

S5 J.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

Next Scene.

The first 25 frames are a bit wobbly on the camera so thinking of redoing that but, Any critical feedback very welcome.

Especially if you think I've missed it!

simon

 

S6 B.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

This is about x6 as fast as it will be but, the intention is to use the motion blurred frames as inbetweens with the sound of a camera shutter 'freezing' the poses which will hold on screen as photo prints.

Thats the idea anyway ...

 

N.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

The stills with Flash gun pops have not been done yet but this is nearer the speed.

Not sure how to do the stills as a freeze frame?

suggestions very welcome,

simon

 

S6 D.mov

[Simon Edmondson]

With sound effects and Flashes.

Think the timing may have to speed up on the movements ?

Any critical observations very welcome.

simon

S6 D.mov

 

Caution.

It does contain strong flash effects.

[Rodney]

That was fun!
Nicely done.

Think the timing may have to speed up on the movements ?

 

Yes, I think so. Although it looks a bit like they are intentionally going slow so that their photos can be taken.

[Simon Edmondson]

Thank you Rodney.I think its going to take a lot of small adjustments to get it 'right'. The blends between still frames was done in Final Cut but the rest is all AM.

I must admit to getting a bit fed up with it all because I've been bashing away at it for so long. But will get it done properly. Want to get all the animation done and the narrative working before doing all the sound.

 

Keep getting ideas for other projects but resisting starting them. The next one is likely to be a combination of AM sets and camerawork and hand drawn figures ( using TVpaint ). Need to get the script sorted first and the dialogue recorded as the animation will work off that. Happy Families is all voice over and sound effects.

regards

simon

[robcat2075]

I'm not sure I understand the story point being made. Or is this too small a segment for that?

 

The sliding feet bother me but maybe that's intentional?

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your feedback.

The story arc is that the couple are 'celebrating' their 50th wedding anniversary, They are light hearted about it but their daughter and son in law are much more formal and materially oriented. This part, and their arrival via motorcycles and fast car ( both linked to their competitive past ), are to show that they have not lost their lightness of spirit or settled for the slippers, TV and walking the dogs lifestyle often expected of people in their 70's. They are slightly rebellious and have more in common with the grandchildren than the middle generation.

 

"Vive la Difference"

 

It does have a sad ending though.

 

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Plodding on, as ever.

Encountered a problem.

 

I'm preparing a series of stills to form part of a montage sequence. Trying to show part of the characters of Bill and Doris ( 70+ Grand parents ).

 

Prepared the series of poses in a single cho, then put a hold on each frame so it could be rendered out as a sequence without having to change anything.

The results were inconsistent, as you can see below. The models, lighting and render setting were identical in each frame but the way the width of toon line was rendered, changed markedly, on successive frames.

 

This was frame 002 of ten,

 

and this was frame 003 of the same sequence,

 

Notice the difference in the size of the toon limes ?

 

Can anyone kindly suggest a solution ?

 

simon

 

PS an irrelevant question but, has the counter on the number of views for this thread gone haywire, it seems to leap up hugely each day ?

[Rodney]

That appears to be the result of animating that toon line property although we'd have to check to see where that is.

An important clue would be the specific character/objects the change is occurring on although... you might look first for some animated parameter under the camera.

 

 

As for the number of views. We are experiencing a high number of guests and while we might hope each is a legit viewer some are surely running searches or downloading the entire forum. Some of that can be accomplished as a guest while other access would require a login. I've noticed an uptick in registrations too and some of that is legit... some opportunistic. I'm as docile as a lamb. As patient as a lion. I watch. I wait. I play and pounce as necessary.

 

For what it is worth, I also notice there are a lot more searches from search engines these days and while most of those types of visits appear to be quickly answered, the subject matters of the searches appear relevant (as opposed to random). That is encouraging. .

[Simon Edmondson]

Rodney.

Thank you for your help. Much appreciated. I shall have a look straightaway.

 

I was a bit taken aback that it was showing 30,000+ views but, only very few people actually comment and they seem to be the regulars.

Good news that the forum is receiving more traffic though !

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

I Tried it in V18 ( usually work in V17 ), but got the same result.

I looked in the PWS and there didn't appear to be any animated parameters under the camera.

 

so , incorporated everything except the images, and saved it out as a V18 file.

If somebody could kindly have a look to see where I might be going wrong ?

Thank you in advance.

regards

simon

 

Scene 06C.prj

[Rodney]

Hmmm... I may not be much help.

When I render frames 2 and 3 the toon lines turn out the same.

 

I'm uploading a modified project file that removes a few models/objects that don't appear to be related to the problem.

The project should only render frames 2 and 3.

 

Try this project and see if you get the same (that is to say wrong) results.

Modified Scene 06C.prj

[Simon Edmondson]

Rodney.

Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.

Unfortunately I got here slightly late so, will check it later tomorrow, after a good nights sleep and a busy day.

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

I tried the modified file Rodney kindly made for me, for which thank you.The results were slightly mixed

 

 

The figure on the left is the original and the other is from the modified file.

Encouraged, I tried to save the modified model. It saved but, when I tried to open it in V17, it was not allowed.

Tried again, several times, it finally allowed the process.

Is there a difference from the way V19 saves models to V17 ?

 

This is the modified model in V17, cho render on the left, Quick render to screen on the right.

Render settings the same for each

 

I'm going to try to composite around the problem in Photoshop but, it would be good to know how to fix it if possible.

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Caution : There are a LOT of flashes in this

 

Will probably adjust the timing but, this is the montage section before resuming 'proper' animating.

Any critical feedback very welcome.

 

S6.mov

 

PS

Should add, this is a 720 version of a 1080 setup.

 

[robcat2075]

19

 

 

This is the modified model in V17, cho render on the left, Quick render to screen on the right.

Render settings the same for each

model.png

 

Those are clearly different views. Are you SURE everything is the same? Same viewport?

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your reply and help, much appreciated.

 

I've just gone back and tried the modified Doris model in V18 and it rendered without the odd lines in both Quick render and File render versions.

Saved that model out as Doris C3,

Closed V18

 

Opened up V17.

Imported C3 and, to my surprise, it rendered ,both Quick render and File render, without the odd lines.

Closed that and reverted to the original C model.

To my even bigger surprise, that rendered , in both forms, without the odd lines .

 

Yesterday, it would only render with the bad lines.

As you may have detected, it was driving me slightly crackers.

One of the infuriating things about such problems is that I don't know if its me or something else causing the inconsistency

 

This was rendered today, with the original unmodified file

 

This is the same model, same cho ( only minus background )

rendered yesterday

 

In the end, I used the V18 renders of the file Rodney kindly modified, and composited them into the scene.

 

regards

simon

 

 

[Simon Edmondson]

Having some trouble with an intermittent render glitch.

This is a VGA render of the start of the next scene,

around frame 34 a set of dark marks start to appear on the top of the cake.

S8 000.mov

 

It was the same when, initially, it was rendered as a sequence rather than as a QT file.

 

then I tried again, with this result.

No marks.

 

The only animation at this point is the camera move. Can anyone suggest what might be going on and how to fixit ?

Thank you.

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Hoping this is the penultimate scene .

Then the sound.

Any critical feedback very welcome.

A bit concerned the movements might be a little stiff ?

simon

 

NHF S8.mov

 

53,000+ views ?????

[robcat2075]

Suggestion: You can do the "toasting" gesture more clearly and more gracefully by including anticipation and arc.

 

You can build that all into one move by going slightly back, then down and forward ( the green path).

 

In this diagram the starting pose is blue , the ending pose is purple and the path of the hand is in green.

 

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your feedback. Very much appreciated.

I did try to put some anticipation and arc into it but, clearly not enough.

Not sure if I'll have the chance to redo itfor a while as it was taking 15-20 mins each frame to erase the non toon sections to reveal the toon underneath.

 

Inevitably that means it will be done but the completion date stretches again.

regards

simon

 

Ps

I had a quick review of progress so far earlier and there are acouple of scenes need reworking.

Hey ho...