Lights problem in V17G

[Simon Edmondson]

Working in V17G under OSX 10.68.

Having some very frustrating problems setting up the lighting for the dance sequence. Sometimes the lights aren't rendering and , when they do, changes in position are not reflected in the render.

 

First screen shot shows the render, notice the spot position with the values highlighted.

 

Second screen shot shows no effective change in render but the spots position has been drastically altered.

 

I refreshed the window carefully and advanced and rest the timeline after the change to allow it to take effect. For such a large positional change I was expecting a much bigger change in render

Any help gratefully received.

simon

[robcat2075]

Have you tried saving the PRJ and reloading it?

[Simon Edmondson]

Robert

Thank you for your reply. I've tried that, and tried to avoid it using another machine. That was OK until I turned "Toon with fall off" on and at that point it went wonky again and refuses to render the lights or, when it does, it doesn't accept changes in position.

 

I tried replicating it with a more simple project but no joy.

I think I'm going to sleep on it, do something different tomorrow and return to it in the evening

Hey Ho...

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Went away to do something different and started again today. Very strange result.

This is frame 03:23

 

This is the very next frame

The only thing I ( think ) thats changed, is the camera angle. All the other settings are the same.

 

I tried to replicate it with a fresh file but, inevitably, its behaving .

I will try to see what has cchanged it if it happens again.simon

[NancyGormezano]

Hard to know without seeing all the data at once - Looks like the rotation of the camera changed from one frame to next. FYI, sometimes it's easier to see timeline data in graph/curve/spline mode rather than keyframe, to see that there is a change in value, rather than just a keyframe.

 

Meanwhile, I really don't like the new forums way of displaying images - can't save them, in order to compare the images side by side to more easily detect what might be different/changing from one frame to other. For future reference, it would better if you composited the images you want to compare into one image (shrink the size so that both fit in one image that we can see together)

[Simon Edmondson]

Hard to know without seeing all the data at once - Looks like the rotation of the camera changed from one frame to next. FYI, sometimes it's easier to see timeline data in graph/curve/spline mode rather than keyframe, to see that there is a change in value, rather than just a keyframe.

 

Meanwhile, I really don't like the new forums way of displaying images - can't save them, in order to compare the images side by side to more easily detect what might be different/changing from one frame to other. For future reference, it would better if you composited the images you want to compare into one image (shrink the size so that both fit in one image that we can see together)

Nancy

Thank you for your feedback.

I will try to follow up your suggestions today. There is a positional change on the camera, I will check the curves to see if there are any others.

regards

simon

[markw]

...Meanwhile, I really don't like the new forums way of displaying images - can't save them, in order to compare the images side by side to more easily detect what might be different/changing from one frame to other...

I know what you mean Nancy about the way the site initially displays images.

After you've clicked on an image and it pops open, have a look in the bottom right corner of it. There's a 'Save' button down there that I found if I click on it the image then opens in a separate Tab of it's own in my web browser (Firefox) which makes comparing images a lot easier.

[Ilidrake]

Also depending on the amount of work you have invested perhaps you should try a new project and start editing items one at a time. Place your models, place props, place lights one at a time. On each new addition render out a quick render to see if anything strange happens. This is how I find problems. One item at a time.

[Simon Edmondson]

Lloyd.

Thank you for your reply. I've thought of doing that but, its taken me approx three months to get this far and I'm 86 seconds in, with addittional scenes before and after. I've saved lots of iterations along the way but it would still mean losing a lot. Still plugging away at it. The annoying thing is it seems to be intermittent but, I'll get it cracked, and will post the answer when I do...

regards

simon

[NancyGormezano]

 

...Meanwhile, I really don't like the new forums way of displaying images - can't save them, in order to compare the images side by side to more easily detect what might be different/changing from one frame to other...

After you've clicked on an image and it pops open, have a look in the bottom right corner of it. There's a 'Save' button down there that I found if I click on it the image then opens in a separate Tab of it's own in my web browser (Firefox) which makes comparing images a lot easier.

 

Ahhhhh hahhh! Much better - thanks!

 

And yes, I just noticed that Simon had already said that his camera was changing, so we really needed to see the properties (with graph) for the spot light for the 2 funny frames (not the camera data)

[Simon Edmondson]

Nancy

Thank you for your reply.

 

Here are the two renders on consecutive frames.

As you can see in the time line, the only changes are to the camera position. Nothing moves on the spots values.

 

To confirm that.

Here is a screengrab of the graphs at the same point for the camera and the spot

 

This is a grab of the blanked frame before render ( if that makes sense ?)

 

I went through the timeline last night and, the 'blanking' seems to occur with alternate changes of camera position. One is ok, the next position 'blanks' until the position changes again.

I tried to replicate that on a fresh project using one of the models and a walk cycle but it was OK.

I'm going to redo all the camera work this afternoon and see if that helps.

regards

simon

[Simon Edmondson]

Problem seems to be solved by deleting the camera and bringing in a new one ( holds breath ),

still don't know the cause.

Thanks to everyone for their help.

Back to work for me.

simon

[markw]

That's good news!
Keep pushing on, I for one am quite eager to see the finished movie.

[NancyGormezano]

Problem seems to be solved by deleting the camera and bringing in a new one ( holds breath ),

still don't know the cause.

I would be suspicious of the "hold" interpolation method (or looks like that's what you are using? not sure) on the camera for those offending frames.

 

Try changing it to linear interpolation?

 

The other thing that might be changing, but can't tell from your screen grab, is that the light NULL position might have changed (the one that light is aimed at)

 

Should the curtain be hiding the actors in one frame (camera viewing them from in front of curtain)? and then the camera is viewing them from above in the next? It is hard to tell what you are wanting to happen.

[Simon Edmondson]

 

Problem seems to be solved by deleting the camera and bringing in a new one ( holds breath ),

still don't know the cause.

I would be suspicious of the "hold" interpolation method (or looks like that's what you are using? not sure) on the camera for those offending frames.

 

Try changing it to linear interpolation?

 

The other thing that might be changing, but can't tell from your screen grab, is that the light NULL position might have changed (the one that light is aimed at)

 

Should the curtain be hiding the actors in one frame (camera viewing them from in front of curtain)? and then the camera is viewing them from above in the next? It is hard to tell what you are wanting to happen.

 

Nancy.

Thank you for your reply and help. It was Hold used for the camera interpolation but, now I'm redoing it may just completely flatten the curves in the editor if that works. The curtain was a recent addition, following Robert's suggestion in the Ska Lake thread. The idea is that it would make it look slightly more theatrical, as if they were dancing in front of a curtain on a stage. It will shrink in the final section to become the curtain over the bedroom window. I was thinking of using two follow spots, one for each dancer, to add to the theatrical aspect, although the literal minded part of me wonders if that's going too far ! It is changing from in front of the curtain to an above shot, to get a less static feel and make it a little more theatrical ( that word again).

 

All the camera moves have gone now so working on changing it now.

regards

Simon